Talk:Judaism and violence

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Anti-Christian violence[edit]

The addition of the section on "Anti-Christian violence" diff diff is off-topic and WP:OR. A more correct version would be

The rise of monotheism in Ethiopia, in the form of Christianity, was mirrored by the conversion of the kingdom of Himyar in the late 4th century to Judaism.^[1] Two episodes of "coercion and brutality" by Arabian Jewish kings took place during the fifth and early sixth centuries.^[2] Thirty-nine Christian were martyred in the third quarter of the fifth century,^[3] and a massacre of Christians took place in 523.^[4] Eventually, the kingdom was overthrown by a military campaign of the Ethiopian Christian kingdom, invoking a confrontation of the Byzantine Empire and the Sassanian Empire in this Arabian region, contributing to the advent of Islam.^[5]^[6]

References

^ Bowersock p.83
^ Bowersock p.85
^ Bowersock p.85
^ Bowersock p.85
^ Bowersock p.86
^ Glenn W. Bowersock (2011), The Rise and Fall of a Jewish Kingdom in Arabia

"The rise of Christianity in the areas surrounding the Holy Land during the early centuries of the first millenium A.D provoked vicious attacks against Christians, both polemical and physical" is WP:OR, and not supported by the source.

This is not about "Judaism's doctrines and texts" and "the juxtaposition of Judaic law and theology to violence and non-violence by groups and individuals," but about the rise of monotheism and the powerplay between various kingdoms and empires in the Arabian peninsula. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 05:49, 29 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

That may be, but the text you propose goes too far off-topic, while the present text stay closer to the topic of this article. Something between the present version and your proposal would be ideal. Debresser (talk) 20:41, 29 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Bowerstock does not say

The rise of Christianity in the areas surrounding the Holy Land during the early centuries of the first millenium A.D provoked vicious attacks against Christians, both polemical and physical.

That's a conclusion drawn by a blocked editor. Bowersock's topic is the Arabian peninsula, not "the areas surrounding the holy land." The specific chapter is about the establishment of a Jewish kingdom in the Arabian peninsula, which is relevant for the origins of Islam. What he specifically states regarding this violence is presented in my correction. A version that is closer to the topic of the article, but original research and a misrepresentation of the source simply is incorrect. Please stick to the sources. NB: part of this info was also presented in the section above, "Forced conversion," without presenting the context. A clear sign that this blocked was WP:NOTHERE. Please don't support such disruptive editing. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 02:38, 30 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Addentum: I've merged those sections. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 03:03, 30 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I still found much of the section too far off-topic, and have removed what needed to be removed. Debresser (talk) 10:16, 30 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Fine. Did you read the source? It's very interesting; it gives a clue of the Jewish roots of Islam. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 10:54, 30 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Will definitely read. Which one? Is it available online? Debresser (talk) 14:16, 30 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Bowersock, The Throne of Adulis: Red Sea Wars of the Eve of Islam, chapter 6, Judaism comes to Himyar, but I expect the whole book is a good read. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 16:26, 30 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Bowerstock doesn't say that, but another author, Peter Frankopan in his book The Silk Roads does on page 59. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Muhammad bin Bakhtiyar (talk • contribs) 01:27, 1 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Neutrality[edit]

Hello, the listing of cases of violence committed by Jews inevitably pose a problem of original work, as the case selection is done in a selective way. Listing radical violent groups put an unbalanced weight on the position of Judaism towards violence. Also the list is identical to the article "Religious Jewish Terrorism". Thank you very much. . Bageralg (talk) 16:12, 7 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

[1] Bowersock p.83

[2] Bowersock p.85

[3] Bowersock p.85

[4] Bowersock p.85

[5] Bowersock p.86

[6] Glenn W. Bowersock (2011), The Rise and Fall of a Jewish Kingdom in Arabia

[1]

[2]

[3]

[4]

[5]

[6]