Jump to content

Talk:Kanjuruhan Stadium disaster/Archive 1

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Archive 1

Semi-protected edit request on 2 October 2022

Add to the end of the first paragraph: after the Estadio_Nacional_disaster of May 24, 1964. 71.231.156.74 (talk) 11:01, 2 October 2022 (UTC)

Already in the Aftermath section. WWGB (talk) 11:29, 2 October 2022 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 17:07, 2 October 2022 (UTC)

Edit request

In the first paragraph a sentence starts with “125”. Per the MoS, this should be “One hundred twenty-five” as sentence should not start with a numerical number, the number should instead be spelled out. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1011:B190:8876:80E5:3AAD:E968:1411 (talk) 02:58, 3 October 2022 (UTC)

 Done. WWGB (talk) 03:20, 3 October 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 October 2022

Please remove this sentence: 

18 of police officers who are operating the tear gas launcher is being investigated by the police.

and add this: 

Investigators are also examining the role of eighteen police officers who operated the tear gas launcher.

Thanks. 120.21.144.99 (talk) 20:22, 3 October 2022 (UTC)

 Done Blaylockjam10 (talk) 20:54, 3 October 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 October 2022 (2)

Please un-bold the sentences of 1 October 2022 in the opening part of the article. 36.68.198.229 (talk) 23:19, 3 October 2022 (UTC)

 Done by User:CUA 27 approximately 10 minutes ago. —Danre98(talk^contribs) 23:58, 3 October 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 6 October 2022

Please change the sentence in the opening part of the article from:

On October 6 2022, Head of Indonesian police Listyo Sigit Prabowo announced six suspects

to

On 6 October 2022, Head of Indonesian police Listyo Sigit Prabowo announced six suspects 125.167.59.139 (talk) 20:24, 6 October 2022 (UTC)

 Done, as per article using DMY dates. MadGuy7023 (talk) 20:43, 6 October 2022 (UTC)

FIFA Regulation Misunderstanding

The scope of the regulation (from page 12):

3. If an association or confederation arranges an event that will be administrated and governed by its own competition regulations, the respective association’s or confederation’s own safety and security regulations shall apply and these regulations may only serve as guidelines.

In short, FIFA does not mandate the regulation to be followed at national competition. This is only mandatory for FIFA events. 2001:448A:50E2:F771:EDE7:CC63:3516:FCE1 (talk) 08:16, 2 October 2022 (UTC)

I am not a lawyer but the regulation itself is widely mentioned by the national media about the event, so even if that supposed to mean that way, we should keep it in the article. Nyanardsan (talk) 08:32, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
I didn't intend to have it removed, only to add additional information so it is not misunderstood by general public anymore. I actually add the information before the editting is locked but then I realize the reference I put had wrong page (should have been 12 instead of 32) but I cannot revised it as the page got locked — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:448A:50E2:F771:EDE7:CC63:3516:FCE1 (talk) 08:59, 2 October 2022 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 21:37, 2 October 2022 (UTC)

Title

@WaddlesJP13: Shouldn't the title include "disaster" instead of "stampede" in order to harmonize it with articles of similar case? Regards, Jeromi Mikhael 00:52, 2 October 2022 (UTC)

@Jeromi Mikhael: That may have to be decided between you and page creator SunDawn (and possibly other people, but it may be easier to make the page move now rather than later). I'm not really too familiar with this event and only merged the two articles since both appeared in the Page Curation backlog whilst I was page reviewing. Waddles 🗩 🖉 00:58, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
@Jeromi Mikhael: After looking at Template:Human crushes, it looks like many other similar articles use "stampede" rather than "disaster". Waddles 🗩 🖉 01:03, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
update death to 220 pepole injured and cause this poilce attack gas 101.128.126.87 (talk) 02:19, 3 October 2022 (UTC)

Aftermath and Reaction

Should we create reaction section? Aftermath will show how the condition of people and venue, meanwhile the reaction section will cover reaction of federation, police, and world. BurningHill (talk) 08:38, 2 October 2022 (UTC)

Usually there will be the reaction section, especially on those official press statement release, starting from Indonesia (president, ministry of sports, head of football association, head of the police force) and the world (probably limited to FIFA only). Chongkian (talk) 02:45, 3 October 2022 (UTC)

Requested move 2 October 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Early close, not moved. Closing this early since the consensus and findings of fact are quite clear. The two historical events that are equivalent peers both use the term "disaster" (Accra Sports Stadium disaster and Estadio Nacional disaster). As Dhiosk pointed out, they are not just superficially similar, as they had nearly identical conditions where authorities firing tear gas to disperse the crowd, resulting in large-scale fatalities beyond just a "stampede." The two examples cited in the move request are no more than stub articles, so they are not representative of best practices. It is also instructive to look at the Wikidata item to see what Wikipedia articles in other languages are using, and the vast majority use words such as "tragedy" (Bahasa Indonesian) and "disaster" (Dutch/Netherlands). Malay uses "riot," and French as an outlier is the only one using "stampede." If there is interest to discuss the other standing issue, including the year in the name, another move request can be made. - Fuzheado | Talk 15:19, 3 October 2022 (UTC) Fuzheado | Talk 18:03, 3 October 2022 (UTC)

2022 Kanjuruhan Stadium disaster → 2022 Kanjuruhan Stadium stampede – Apologies if its too early for this, but many similar articles have been titled with "stampede" as opposed to "disaster". This would also be a more accurate title, specifying the nature of the disaster as a stampede. See 1 and 2 for a few examples. Precise and recognizable in accordance with WP:CRITERIA. — That Coptic Guy (talk) 04:25, 2 October 2022 (UTC)

  • Support per nom. Reading a bit more into this event it seems like stampede worked just fine. Disaster is ambiguous. Waddles 🗩 🖉 05:07, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
  • Support per nom. Yogwi21 (talk) 05:20, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
  • Strongly oppose. This is a potential mass murder, which most people in the world are not yet even aware of, there is no need to be hurrying to come to conclusions about its nature. Disaster is neutral and accurate and doesn't employ dehumanizing animalistic language. See Hillsborough disaster. Absolutely not. No. Vile, especially considering that Wikipedia WILL be used as sources in news articles (more often than the other way round) Sumbuddi (talk) 05:22, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
  • Oppose Strongly oppose. These other major football-related incidents, which are among the five worst football-related incidents alongside Kanjuruhan, can be used as examples: Estadio Nacional disaster, Accra Sports Stadium disaster, Hillsborough disaster, 1988 Dasharath Stadium disaster. All of those included stampedes in some way. The first two (Estadio Nacional, Accra) even had losing team supporters invading the field and police employing tear gases as important elements of the incidents, with the almost-exact fashion to that of Kanjuruhan. If we use "stampede" instead of "disaster", I'm afraid that we're not following the consistency between similar articles in Wikipedia. Dhio (talk?) 05:29, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
  • Oppose. Indonesian media overwhelmingly describe to this as "tragedy". "Tear gas" is the most discussed keyword rather than "stampede", because some also die by asphyxiation. I personally don't know in English whether disaster or tragedy the correct word for this event. Hddty (talk) 05:39, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
Foreign-based and english-speaking media looks different. Most of them use "stampede", like BBC, The Japan Times, etc. 125.167.57.167 (talk) 05:56, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
Smuckers It has to be good 06:06, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
Reliable sources using “stampede” is a compelling argument, but I’d note that other Wikipedia articles about similar crowd crushes at soccer games tend to use “disaster”. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 06:15, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
I refered you to reply by Hddty above. Also, the nature of this tragedy is still being discussed, was it a riot, stampede, or anything else. Nyanardsan (talk) 06:18, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
  • Comment We should probably follow what reliable sources are saying, but it seems like the most accurate way to describe this is to call it a crowd crush. I’d note that other Wikipedia articles about similar crowd crushes at soccer games tend to call them disasters, so calling it a disaster fits better with WP:TITLECON. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 06:07, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
    To add, the very page of Stampede in wiki has a line saying "Some media sources refer to situations in which people were injured or have died due to compression in very dense crowds "stampede" is a misnomer". Given the police chief describe the incident as “They went out to one point at the exit, then there was a buildup – in the process of accumulation there was shortness of breath, lack of oxygen”, this is more typical of a crowd crush (people injured because unable to move and breathe) than Stampede (people injured because of other people moving like being stepped on). 183.178.87.163 (talk) 10:05, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
  • Oppose Oppose at least as for now while waiting the official result of the cause, was it really due to overcapacity, hooligans or the mistakes committed by the polices by firing tear gas to the audience seats, thus 'Disaster' is the most neutral and inclusive terms for all of the possible causes - at this moment. Chongkian (talk) 07:46, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
  • Oppose Per Aljazeera event also included injuries/death by teargas and vehicle burning. Disaster seems to be accurate. Squeezdakat (talk) 07:59, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
  • Oppose. Too narrow. It is unknown whether it was only a stampede; other death causes may be present. -DePiep (talk) 10:25, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
  • Oppose Seem too soon to rely only on WP:RSBREAKING sources that headline "stampede". Be conservative. For example, the BBC now has the headline "Indonesia: At least 174 dead in football stadium crush". The police chief said that[1]

    ...as a result of the tear gas being fired, fans rushed to one exit and “then there was a build-up”. “That process caused shortness of breath [and] lack of oxygen and medical teams tried to do rescue efforts in the stadium,” he said.

    Another source refered to the crush:[2]

    Afinta said many people were crushed and suffocated when they ran to one exit.

    No prejudice to revisiting this after authorities investigate further.—Bagumba (talk) 10:46, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
    AP News seems to have changed their title and body text (though the link still the same) to remove "stampede" from "129 dead after fans stampede to exit Indonesian soccer match" (archive link at 1:56 AM UTC or 10 hours ago) to "174 die as tear gas triggers crush at Indonesia soccer match" (current link). Hddty (talk) 12:02, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
  • Was this a crowd crush, a stampede, or both? Whichever is the case, the title shouldn't have the year in it. It only happened once. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 10:37, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
    We've been through this before. Only very well known historical events are listed without a year.  — Amakuru (talk) 10:50, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
    This is important enough to not have the year in the title. It's receiving substantial international media coverage & has an unusually high death toll. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 11:21, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
    There is no good reason to not include the year. A majority of events articles deserve the year per WP:NCEVENTS. To remove the year would not be WP:CONSISTENT with the majority of article titles of events. Pilaz (talk) 21:40, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
There is a good reason. This is a major disaster, reported internationally, which has only happened once in its location. The Heysel Stadium disaster & the Hillsborough disaster were very similar; I don't see anyone suggesting that either of them should have the year attached to the beginning of their titles. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 11:56, 3 October 2022 (UTC)
  • Oppose. "Stampede" is an extremely loaded term usually reserved for cattle, which implies that victims were to blame for their own deaths. Neutrality demands a descriptive title like the one we currently have.  — Amakuru (talk) 10:47, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
  • Oppose It appears that most people were crushed to death in an enclosed area, which "stampede" does not suggest. Black Kite (talk) 10:49, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
  • Oppose and suggested move to "Kanjuruhan Stadium disaster" (without year) or something similar, due to fact that this is the only notable incident happened at the stadium. Also, this incident are likely not just stampede. 125.167.57.167 (talk) 12:03, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
    Per WP:NCE, "In the majority of cases, the title of the article should contain the following three descriptors: When the incident happened. Where the incident happened. What happened." This does not fall into the exception to that convention mentioned, which is "in historic perspective, the event is easily described without it". Although it's in the news now, it's not going to be long-regarded as a historic and well-known incident, so the year is necessary to help readers identify the event in question.  — Amakuru (talk) 12:35, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
  • I think you should change it because there are many related articles named like "2015 Mina stampede" and not "2015 Mina disaster" Quake1234 (talk) 13:05, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
  • Comment I'm fine with it being labelled as either disaster or stampede, but it's better that this article be renamed without the year since this event is very notable for being unusual and for having an exceptionally high death toll, just like the Hillsborough disaster. RPC7778 (talk) 13:50, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
  • Oppose: Human crush or crowd collapse would be the most accurate, though they aren't seeing common use. Given the choice between stampede and disaster, disaster is less of a victim-blaming term. If European crowd collapses like Hillsborough are disasters, Asian crowd collapses like Kanjuruhan are likewise disasters.Zhanmusi (talk) 18:42, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
  • Comment - while this would be called a "stampede" in the usage I am familiar with, there is a movement to separate various types of crowd events into stampedes, crowd crushes, and crowd collapses. In any event, we should not be using the hopelessly uninformative word "disaster" here or in any other article title. --User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 18:48, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
  • "Disasters don't just happen. They're triggered by a chain of critical events. Unravel the clues and count down those final Seconds from Disaster. Abductive (reasoning) 19:21, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
  • Oppose: The above comment by Dhio gives convincing evidence of the use of "disaster" as applicable to similar events of this magnitude. Consistency is preferable, but as this Talk discussion shows, the causes of death are multiple and parallel events often were less than clearcut. Calling it a "disaster" is generic and closer to NPOV -- "stampede" has a connotation of blaming the victims, which is particularly offensive in this case because trigger-happy police used tear gas, a technique NOT considered standard here in Indonesia, which is why the top brass in Malang were rebuked and might be forced to retire. Martindo (talk) 22:03, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
  • Oppose: The stampede is only part of the event. There is a riot going on and the stampede is only the result of it. SYSS Mouse (talk) 14:32, 3 October 2022 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested move 3 October 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Early close, moved. Closing this early since the consensus is clear, unanimous, and supported by policy with WP:NOYEAR and all other peer articles. - Fuzheado | Talk 10:59, 4 October 2022 (UTC) Fuzheado | Talk 10:59, 4 October 2022 (UTC)

2022 Kanjuruhan Stadium disaster → Kanjuruhan Stadium disaster – WP:NOYEAR,

Some articles do not need a year for disambiguation when, in historic perspective, the event is easily described without it.

There was no other disaster in the stadium so we don't need the "2022" identifier. Dunutubble (talk) (Contributions) 15:48, 3 October 2022 (UTC)

  • Support. See my reason to the previous request. RPC7778 (talk) 16:21, 3 October 2022 (UTC)
  • Support — no reason to call it the specifically "2022" disaster since there has been no other significant disaster at this stadium. Paul Vaurie (talk) 16:38, 3 October 2022 (UTC)
  • Support - Yes I agree, no reason to name it "2022" when it was the only disaster. If there is another disaster at this stadium (which I doubt) hen changing it to 2022 would make more sense. Muhafiz-e-Pakistan (talk) 17:16, 3 October 2022 (UTC)
  • Support per all of the reasons above. Dhio (talk?) 17:37, 3 October 2022 (UTC)
  • Support - I just worry that if another disaster happens at the stadium then we need to re-name it again. Smuckers It has to be good 17:55, 3 October 2022 (UTC)
  • Support - No year, like Heysel & Hillsborough. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 18:15, 3 October 2022 (UTC)
  • Support This is the only major disaster at this stadium & other soccer disasters with similar death tolls don’t have the year in them. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 19:40, 3 October 2022 (UTC)
  • Support-- unnecessary disambiguation. —Danre98(talk^contribs) 23:55, 3 October 2022 (UTC)
  • Support - Given other articles regarding stadium disasters (such as the Accra Stadium disaster[1] and Estadio Nacional disaster[2]) do not have the year, and also considering no other disasters happened at this stadium before this happened, would make sense to move this for now. (If another incident takes place in a different year then yes I would support moving back) SBS6577P (talk) 00:18, 4 October 2022 (UTC)
  • Support Getting rid of the "2022" in the title. This is a significant event, much akin to the Hillsborough disaster where there isn't a year preceding that title either. — That Coptic Guy (talk) 00:48, 4 October 2022 (UTC)
Support - per nom. gtgamer79 (talk) 02:13, 4 October 2022 (UTC)
  • Support - Why not? I don't foresee any other disasters happening here for at least the next year or two RPI2026F1 (talk) 02:24, 4 October 2022 (UTC)
  • Support per reasons given above. - Therealscorp1an (talk) 03:33, 4 October 2022 (UTC)
Support No other disaster occurred at the stadium before. Taiwanexplorer36051 (talk) 04:01, 4 October 2022 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

References

  1. ^ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accra_Sports_Stadium_disaster
  2. ^ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estadio_Nacional_disaster

Number of Deaths in the Lead

In the lead section, it is mentioned that in total 125 people died in incident. However, in the body section, it is mentioned that 125 supporters and 2 police officers are now dead. Should we only count civilian casualties or should we include police deaths? Sir Kenneth Kho (talk) 13:49, 3 October 2022 (UTC)

Everyone should be included. However, do references say that 125 people (including 2 cops) died or that 127 people (including 2 cops) died? Blaylockjam10 (talk) 21:06, 3 October 2022 (UTC)
References say 127 people including 2 officers died, and recently the city health department has released 131 names of the people that died. Sir Kenneth Kho (talk) 11:49, 4 October 2022 (UTC)

Lead section contains an identical paragraph from the body

The following paragraph from the Lead section is exactly identical with the paragraph from the Casualties section: 

 Following a meeting with various officials of the Malang and East Java regional government, Coordinating Minister for Human Development and Cultural Affairs Muhadjir Effendy anounced that "the final amount of casualties, which have been verified by all parties involved, including the Police and the organizers, are 448 casualties". Muhadjir further specified that out of the 448 casualties, 125 people died, 302 people suffered minor injuries, and 21 people suffered serious injuries.[1] This number of casualties is disputed by human rights organization KontraS.[44]

Lead section is only supposed to contain a brief overview of the article. Perhaps it should be trimmed to something like this: 

 Following a meeting with various officials of the Malang and East Java regional government, Coordinating Minister for Human Development and Cultural Affairs Muhadjir Effendy anounced that 125 people died, 302 people suffered minor injuries, and 21 people suffered serious injuries.[1] This number of casualties is disputed by human rights organization KontraS.[44] Sir Kenneth Kho (talk) 12:19, 4 October 2022 (UTC)

Effects of Tear Gas should be Clarified

from Background: FIFA regulation 19b states that tear gas should not be used in stadiums by pitchside stewards or police -- why not?

from Investigation: the police also stated that they will evaluate the use of tear gas -- what are the risks/benefits they are evaluating?

Both of these comments are well-sourced but vague. Tear gas can accumulate at ground level. Also, it is designed to disperse a crowd who will run from the source into open air in order to breathe more freely. A bowl-shaped stadium exacerbates its effects. Can anyone clarify with a reliable source about tear gas being more dangerous (or even fatal) in enclosed areas? Some local press implied that there were asphyxiation deaths attributable to the chemical not the crush of human bodies. Martindo (talk) 12:57, 4 October 2022 (UTC)

@Martindo https://emergency.cdc.gov/agent/riotcontrol/factsheet.asp Poci.wasiats (talk) 14:52, 4 October 2022 (UTC)

Treasure trove of documentations

Copied from the Commons talk page:
Apparently, these YouTube channels provided satisfactory primary-source documentations during and after the disaster, many licensed under CC BY-3.0:
SOPO INGSUN for records of the disaster, and ANT channel 1 for very, very detailed records around Kanjuruhan Stadium after the disaster. Feel free to screenshot, choose and upload to Wikimedia as needed, but don't forget to check the CC licenses of individual records.
Dhio (talk?) 02:24, 9 October 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 October 2022

Please change the sentence in legal section from "The match must be held far from the Malang home base, up to 250 km from the location."

to

"The match must be held far from the Malang home base, up to 250 km (155.34 mi) from the location" (using km to mi convert). 125.167.59.139 (talk) 22:36, 8 October 2022 (UTC)

 Done Dhio (talk?) 00:46, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
 Done Courtesy ping: Dhiosk please close edit requests when answering them. (I am not watching this page, so please ping me if you want my attention.) Happy Editing--IAmChaos 02:41, 9 October 2022 (UTC)

Let's not write Aremania as the suspect (yet)

I'm mentioning this here in case of an edit war (which I would avoid) happens on this topic. I think that it's too early to say that Aremania (as a whole?) is the suspect, let alone the sole suspect, in this disaster. Investigations are still in their early phase and no investigating bodies, government-based or independent, stated any suspect yet. Maybe consider that many news reports stated that multiple stakeholders are to blame. These news include and especially emphasized the blame on tear gas-using police officers, as well as the organizing committee and security officers that are present on the disaster, alongside a big number (±3000) of violent Aremania members that invaded the field. Saying Aremania as the suspect without giving context also ignores the much bigger number of non-violent Aremania folks that stayed in the tribunes, and possibly suffered more deaths, compared to the violent Aremania folks.

So, until any investigation report comes out, I think it's better to leave the 'suspect' box empty. Dhio (talk?) 08:25, 5 October 2022 (UTC)

Agree to wait but you seem to conflate number of people on the field = number invading violently. Some videos show otherwise. Martindo (talk) 10:55, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
Well, it's a fault on my part. Thanks for correcting. Dhio (talk?) 14:06, 5 October 2022 (UTC)

Kanjuruhan Tragedy or Arema Tragedy

Adding Kanjuruhan Tragedy and Arema Tragedy on the first paragraph. In Indonesian media, the tragedy is called Kanjuruhan Tragedy, and sometimes Arema Tragedy, by multiple mainstream and regional media, and the Police.

Kanjuruhan Tragedy:

https://news.detik.com/berita/d-6324274/tragedi-kanjuruhan-kronologi-penyebab-dan-jumlah-korban https://polri.go.id/berita-polri/2297 https://www.cnnindonesia.com/olahraga/20221003071649-142-855486/aremania-bantur-kronologi-tragedi-kanjuruhan-dipicu-dari-minta-foto https://sultra.antaranews.com/berita/429877/tragedi-kanjuruhan-ketua-panpel-arema-fc-dilarang-beraktivitas-di-sepak-bola-seumur-hidup https://www.liputan6.com/bola/read/5087156/headline-tragedi-kanjuruhan-malang-lembar-kelam-sepak-bola-indonesia https://www.bolasport.com/read/313510319/12-orang-sudah-mendapatkan-hukuman-atas-tragedi-kanjuruhan https://nasional.kompas.com/read/2022/10/04/21130411/akbp-ferli-hidayat-dicopot-buntut-tragedi-kanjuruhan-anggota-komisi-iii https://www.cnbcindonesia.com/news/20221005082946-7-377277/liga-champions-tragedi-kanjuruhan-dan-sindirian-untuk-polri https://www.merdeka.com/peristiwa/komdis-pssi-ungkap-hasil-investigasi-tragedi-kanjuruhan-ini-lengkapnya-hot-issue.html https://www.suarasurabaya.net/kelanakota/2022/tragedi-kanjuruhan-dalam-catatan-warganet/


Arema Tragedy:

https://www.voaindonesia.com/a/tragedi-malang-pudarkan-ambisi-olahraga-indonesia-/6774753.html

https://suryamalang.tribunnews.com/2022/10/05/tak-hanya-suporter-kengerian-tragedi-arema-juga-dirasa-pemain-ikut-gotong-korban-tewas-dan-trauma

https://finansial.bisnis.com/read/20221002/215/1583341/sikap-pssi-kejelasan-asuransi-korban-tragedi-arema-fc-vs-persebaya-di-stadion-kanjuruhan

https://www.krjogja.com/olahraga/read/475029/tragedi-arema-jadi-insiden-paling-mematikan-di-stadion-dalam-40-tahun TheWandering (talk) 03:56, 5 October 2022 (UTC)

I have removed "Arema tragedy", it is only used by a handful of sources. Alternative names should be widely-used. WWGB (talk) 04:25, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
For user Surtsicna (talk) please refer to this Talk section before deleting the name of Kanjuruhan Tragedy. We were not "inventing name". — Preceding unsigned comment added by TheWandering (talk • contribs) 03:07, 6 October 2022 (UTC)

This event has no established name. And how could it have one? It happened only a few days ago. You will find sources calling it Kanjuruhan disaster, Kanjuruhan tragedy, Kanjuruhan crush, Indonesia stadium tragedy, Kanjuruhan incident, Indonesia football stadium disaster, Indonesia football stampede, Indonesia's stampede disaster, Indonesia soccer tragedy, etc. None of these is the name for it and none of them should be highlighted in the lead as if it were a proper name. Per MOS:FIRST a merely descriptive title of the article should not appear in boldface. Surtsicna (talk) 06:23, 6 October 2022 (UTC)

@Surtsicna If you read the sources here, it's all Indonesian sources in which the national government, the police, and the media call it Kanjuruhan Tragedy. And you are giving me the links from the British Media to prove a point?
https://news.detik.com/berita/d-6324274/tragedi-kanjuruhan-kronologi-penyebab-dan-jumlah-korban https://polri.go.id/berita-polri/2297 https://www.cnnindonesia.com/olahraga/20221003071649-142-855486/aremania-bantur-kronologi-tragedi-kanjuruhan-dipicu-dari-minta-foto https://sultra.antaranews.com/berita/429877/tragedi-kanjuruhan-ketua-panpel-arema-fc-dilarang-beraktivitas-di-sepak-bola-seumur-hidup https://www.liputan6.com/bola/read/5087156/headline-tragedi-kanjuruhan-malang-lembar-kelam-sepak-bola-indonesia https://www.bolasport.com/read/313510319/12-orang-sudah-mendapatkan-hukuman-atas-tragedi-kanjuruhan https://nasional.kompas.com/read/2022/10/04/21130411/akbp-ferli-hidayat-dicopot-buntut-tragedi-kanjuruhan-anggota-komisi-iii https://www.cnbcindonesia.com/news/20221005082946-7-377277/liga-champions-tragedi-kanjuruhan-dan-sindirian-untuk-polri https://www.merdeka.com/peristiwa/komdis-pssi-ungkap-hasil-investigasi-tragedi-kanjuruhan-ini-lengkapnya-hot-issue.html https://www.suarasurabaya.net/kelanakota/2022/tragedi-kanjuruhan-dalam-catatan-warganet/ TheWandering (talk) 09:24, 6 October 2022 (UTC)
@TheWandering, per WP: CRITERIA, article titles are based on "reliable English-language sources". Hddty (talk) 13:30, 6 October 2022 (UTC)
Non sequitur. Nobody was using the "article titles". It's just only the explanation how it's widely called "Kanjuruhan Tragedy" in Indonesia. @Hddty TheWandering (talk) 13:39, 6 October 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 October 2022

The current opening sentence of the article is grammatically incorrect. So, please change the opening sentence of the article to more concise and clear word from "A fatal human crush occurred during an association football match at Kanjuruhan Stadium in Malang Regency, East Java, Indonesia, on 1 October 2022." to "On 1 October 2022, a fatal human crush occurred during an association football match at Kanjuruhan Stadium in Malang Regency, East Java, Indonesia." 180.254.165.250 (talk) 14:08, 9 October 2022 (UTC)

 Done Grammar will be amended. Raymond Kestis (talk) 05:05, 11 October 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 11 October 2022

Please change the opening sentence from "On October 1 2022" to "On 1 October 2022". Thank you. 180.254.165.250 (talk) 12:25, 11 October 2022 (UTC)

 Done by Tri Ardiansyah. Dhio (talk?) 02:43, 13 October 2022 (UTC)
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Kanjuruhan_Stadium_disaster/Archive_1&oldid=1170636042"