Talk:Kantele

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Untitled[edit]

Does the Kannel need a page of its own? Currently Kannel (instrument) refers to the Kantele page, but really it is as different to the kantele as the kokle and kankle are, which both have their own entries. Corwen 09:03, 16 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

As a Finn I do not recognize the difference, nor consider it page-worthy. --Agamemnon2 08:30, 18 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Kannel is the only name used in Estonia for this instrument, whilst Kantele is the main name for it in Finland with Kannel being a subsidiary name. The Estonian kannel is a subtly different instrument with a different modern history, different historical repertoire (ancient Est Kannel had six strings compared to the Finnish Kantele's five, and this is reflected in the old tunes) and there is a different playing technique.

I have two books, Viisikielisen Kanteleen Ohjelmistoa (Finnish Kantele manual) and Kuuekeelne Kannel (Estonian Kannel manual) and the distinctions between the two instruments are very clear, though they may look the same! (So does a folk fiddle and a classical violin but these are not the same instrument either.)

The Baltic Psalteries form a continuum from Finnish Kantele to Vepsian Gusli, and I appreciate that there is no exact dividing line between Kantele and Kannel, but surely for consistency either all the pages connected with this family should merge to form one Baltic psalteries page, or each nationality's own version of the instrument should have its own page.

I think we need an opinion from an Estonian Kannel player! Corwen 12:48, 19 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I've heard a song by the name:"My Kantele", and I didn't know what kantele was, so this article was helpfull.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Talichnitom (talk) • contribs) 22:58, 9 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Stanko[edit]

I think this for neutrality reasons this article should be named kannel, because it is a proper word for the instrument in both Finnish and Estonian. I don't think kantele is used in Estonia. --SM (talk) 22:45, 17 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I would not know how the Finns refer to this instrument, but here in the US, it is called a kantele, though very few are familiar with it at all... Thanks for the article! Gandydancer (talk) 16:53, 17 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

All articles linked to this calls it Kantele (even the Hebrew and Japanese!), and in Swedish Kantele is the most known one, I had actually never heard abnout 'kannel' before, and that's why I went here to look it up. And in English I'm pretty sure Kantele is most common. --Oscararon (talk) 14:49, 20 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Breaking out kannel to a new article?[edit]

Continuing the above discussion:

Does kannel rate a separate article if the instruments are morphologically identical, but have different legends, history, playing styles, and cultural roles?
Does kannel rate a separate article if it morphologically distinct (differing number of strings, tuning, body shape etc) from the kantele?

From the above conversation, and looking at a few GoogleBooks, it appears that both of the above might be the case.

We've had this debate for quite a few other instruments, and I'm generally inclined to split vice merge, unless there's a general agreement against players in different cultures/countries that it's the same instrument. For example, a guitar with six nylon strings is basically the same in Spain, Canada, and Vietnam, so we have classical guitar. However, a "small guitar with four nylon strings" rates the article ukulele because its history of development and spread, cultural role, etc. is quite distinct from that of the guitar, and most parties involve agree that it is called something different ("ukulele") and a different instrument.

If the Estonians consider the kantele to be a Finnish borrowing, and play substantively the same music on it, its development is overshadowed by Finnish influences, and they share the same legendary/saga history of it, I could see leaving them joined. But my impression thus far is that there are things worth saying about how the psaltery was treated under Soviet rule, its distinct tunings, etc, so worth having another article like kankles and kokle. As to the Sami and Mari terms, I don't have a strong opinion as to whether those should break out, stay in kantele, or whether some of this content should go under psaltery as a "Baltic psaltery" section or whether Baltic psaltery should be an article. Thoughts thus far? MatthewVanitas (talk) 19:42, 5 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I think splitting out "kannel" from this article has merit. While Thomas D. Rossing in his book Science of String Instruments considers the Baltic psaltery a regional instrument, he does differentiate between the Kantele, kannel, kankles and kokle. For example the Kannel tends to be of box construction as opposed to carved and the tuning mechanism differs from the Kantele, kankles and kokle. See this source. Perhaps a "Baltic psaltery" section, with links to Kantele. kannel, kankles and kokle (as these articles already exists), within the psaltery article? --Nug (talk) 10:34, 6 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Haven't gotten around to puzzling this one out yet, though I did make some general improvements to this article today. I did also create Baltic psaltery to apply to the overall class of instruments. MatthewVanitas (talk) 15:53, 12 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, I decided to WP:BEBOLD and split off Kannel (instrument) to its own article. What little kannel info this article had was rather wedged in, but now I think we have clearer coverage, plus a good photo showing some of the distinction. I'll also go dig up a few more details on the construction/playing differences between them. MatthewVanitas (talk) 03:10, 14 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Dots on the soundboard[edit]

The photo of the modern kantele shows dots on the soundboard under the longer strings. These seem to indicate where to touch the strings at nodal points to make them sound their harmonics. Would love to know if this is true, and if so, the implications for playing technique and repertoire are surely enhanced considerably. Regards, Nikevich 19:47, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

I think that is true. Koistinen Kantele sells similar "harmonic dots" ("huiluäänimerkit", literally "flute sound marks") as an option for 5-string kantele. Olli Niemitalo (talk) 08:02, 2 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Details on the Sami harppu?[edit]

Is the harppu just a Sami word for the exact same instrument and playing style, or is there a distinct Sami version of the instrument/tradition? That would be a really interesting angle to address. MatthewVanitas (talk) 02:22, 5 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

kotikantele[edit]

https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kotikantele should be mentioned — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.152.193.240 (talk) 11:13, 7 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]