Talk:Kavšek Bridge

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Coordinates[edit]

I've entered tentative coordinates at 46° 4′ 19.39″ N, 14° 27′ 21.2″ E. These should be confirmed on the ground because the satellite image is not definitive. Doremo (talk) 17:44, 4 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The location is also described at [1], so a comparison is possible using [2] and [3] --Eleassar my talk 18:16, 4 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Kauschegg Bridge?[edit]

According to [4] and [5], it was not F. Kauschegg, but I. Karchegg, a councillor in the Municipality of Šentvid. --Eleassar my talk 13:51, 5 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The name "Franc Kauschegg" is written in the bridge itself (see photos). Both sources cited above misspell Kauschegg's surname as "Karschegg" (such a surname does not exist, to my knowledge, and it does not phonetically match the Slovenian Kavšek either). One source is probably based on the other. Given that spelling error, and the mismatch with the inscription on the bridge itself, I have no faith in the initial "I." cited in the second document either. Doremo (talk) 14:19, 5 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Kauschegg's name and signature are visible here (second line from the top), taken from this site. Doremo (talk) 14:24, 5 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I don't deny Kauschegg being a real person, but I think we should follow official sources. I can't read the inscription on the photo, but will go there to have a look in person. --Eleassar my talk 14:27, 5 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I think the primary sources (the name on the bridge itself and assorted evidence in Google Books) take precedence in this case. I can't find any evidence that anyone ever had the surname Karchegg (most of the Google hits for this are mis-scans for the toponym "Marchegg"). Somebody obviously made a mistake when they typed up the document for Uradni list (they probably just copied it from the Podutik parish webpage, which contains other typos, like running together "Šentvid­Dobrova" and missing diacritics on "Boziceve"), or perhaps from the book Župnija Ljubljana Šentvid that the parish webpage cites. Doremo (talk) 14:43, 5 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Article 8 in the Uradni list text also gives the surname "Karchegger", so it's also internally inconsistent. Kauschegg may well have been a Šentvid council member at the time the bridge was built (it would be good to confirm that somewhere); I cited only "tax official" and "mayor of Spodnja Šiška" because those were the positions I found in sources [6][7] [8]. Doremo (talk) 14:54, 5 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Kauschegg's name on the center panel is followed by "cestniga odbornika" (member of the road committee). Doremo (talk) 15:04, 5 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I've removed the {{dubious}} template, due to the reasons stated above. It would be nonetheless good (per policy) if we could find a reliable secondary source confirming it was Kauschegg. I've had a look in the local library, but have found nothing so far. Another possibility would be to make the inscription easily readable using some image processing tool, as currently it's not clear what name is written at all. Otherwise, the content that is not verifiable should be removed. --Eleassar my talk 15:12, 5 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I can take another close look at the stone itself when I'm out there again. I'd say that Karchegg is demonstrably wrong, but it would be nice to find something (in addition to the inscription on the bridge itself) that connects Franz Kauschegg with the bridge. Doremo (talk) 15:31, 5 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]


Inscription on the northern side[edit]

I've had a look at the inscription (went there) and as far as I could have read it, it says:

1900–1902
Ko je bil [can't read) župan v Št. Vidu, (When X was the Mayor of St. Vid)      [Per [9], Anton Belec was the mayor]
se je pod vodstvom zaslužnega (Under the leadership of the deserving)
Franc Kauschegga, cestniga odbornika (Franc Kauschegg, the Road Committee Member)
zgradila ta okrajna cesta. (this district road was built.)

This gives opportunity to locate additional sources, as the mayor of Šentvid in that time was Anton Belec and of road committee members, and the order about the construction of the road must have been recorded in municipal/district documents. I've also tried some photoshop tricks with the image posted by Doremo, but to no avail. --Eleassar my talk 12:38, 6 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I've added the missing line 3: "okrajni cestni načelnik" (district road commissioner). --TadejM my talk 22:36, 10 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

How to find additional sources[edit]

  • According to Kmetijske in rokodelske novice from 14 April 1900 (volume 58, issue 15), Rodoljub from 7 April 1900 (volume 10, issue 7) and Gorenjec from 14 April 1900 (volume 1, issue 14), the municipal road Koseze–Podutik was placed among district roads on 5 April 1900 at the V. session of the Carniolan Provincial Diet.([10], [11]) No doubt someone reported about it in 1902, when its construction was completed. --Eleassar my talk 13:01, 6 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • As the Archives of Slovenia keep several records of election to district road committees (okrajni cestni odbori), these may perhaps have been also kept for Ljubljana (by them or by some other archive). --Eleassar my talk 13:49, 6 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Another source that would be worth of checking is a monography on Glinica limestone, titled Gliniški apnenec: od Emone do Danes (COBISS 20040448), as the bridge was built from Glinica limestone according to the cited article from Delo. It was written by the same author as the newspaper article. Other books by the same author or about Gliniški apnenec should be verified too. --Eleassar my talk 13:56, 6 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Already in 1992, an article specifically on Kavšek Bridge was published by Ramovš: Dediščina, ki naglo propada : tehniški spomeniki, published in Delo on 10 October 1992 (volume 34, issue 57, pg. 8). --Eleassar my talk 14:09, 6 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

There should be some information on Kauschegg (and maybe the bridge) here: Šuštar, Branko. 1996. Spodnja Šiška - pušeljc Ljubljane: arhivski zapiski s poti vasi v predmestje: 1885-1914. Ljubljana: Zgodovinski arhiv. I haven't had a chance to look for it in the library yet. I'd like to at least add birth and death dates for Franz Kauschegg; he would have been relatively old in 1902 because his daughter Berta was born in 1851. His son Karl (a.k.a. Carl or Dragotin) died in 1936, but I don't have a birth date for him. Franz Kauschegg was married to Hedwig (a.k.a. Hedvik) von Gariboldi. Doremo (talk) 14:16, 6 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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