Talk:Keating (surname)

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Charles Keating[edit]

I'm trying for something a little more WP:NPOV here. Keatings entry read "Charles Keating (US lawyer, banker, fraudster)." I deleted "fraudster" based on his convictions being vacated (detail below); which I admit might be a bit of a blunt axe. It was promptly restored, with a lengthy footnote about his guilty plea.

Here's the detail, from Charles Keating. Keating was convicted twice, in both California and federal court. Both convictions were thrown out; the federal one after Keating had already served four years in prison. California never retried him; that conviction is gone. In the federal case, he was also not convicted. Keating and the government reached a plea agreement: Keating agreed to plead guilty in exchange for no further punishment beyond that already received, and the government dropping all charges against his son. It's worth noting this context: this was not an ordinary guilty plea. By this agreement, Keating got his freedom and his son's freedom, and took nothing but a black mark by the guilty plea. The phrase "sleeves off my vest" comes to mind. Keating pleaded guilty, true, but walked away a free man because of it.

Given this, it's over the top to sum this all up as "fraudster." This is inappropriate for a DAB page. I'm editing this to a more moderate "Charles Keating (US lawyer, banker, best known for his involvement in the savings and loan scandal of the late 1980s)." Interested readers can get the details from the main article, Charles Keating.

The proponent of the "fraudster" label is an editor with a similar surname who is embarrassed by the association. While I can sympathize with that, that's not a good basis for the encyclopedia content. TJRC (talk) 21:58, 7 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm happy enough with the present version, though I would have thought a guilty plea to fraud would be quite enough to justify the label of fraudster. BTW our shared surname is not the reason to label him; it would be a bad reason to keep the label off. Richard Keatinge (talk) 06:17, 8 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]