Talk:Kinect Sports

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Soccer[edit]

Call it soccer, not football. American product, American name.--Brainiack16 (talk) 18:21, 1 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It is actually a British product developed by a British company and the game itself calls it Football. 94.245.127.12 (Microsoft IP Address) (talk) 08:40, 12 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Can someone put some tips on how to play each of the games. Such as how to shoot low in soccer as it always seems to shoot high even when I lean over the ball. Also can someone put a tip for how to tackle.

Freekick tip for someone to add later is put kicking foot behind standing leg and then bring around and kick to bend like beckham. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.1.58.46 (talk) 03:57, 4 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Edits[edit]

So, I suppose there's a kinect sports fan here who deleted my edits. --Walecs (talk) 17:51, 25 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Suggested Updates to Kinect Sports page[edit]

Hi,

My name's Neal and I work for Rare on their Web & Community team. I've just been reviewing the Kinect Sports page, and would like to suggest some changes if possible? I'm aware that my position at Rare constitutes a conflict of interest, and so I thought the best approach would be to make my suggestions here, for you independent editors to discuss and implement. Hopefully this is the correct way of doing things, but obviously please advise if not! Anyway, suggestions as follows:

  1. Could you include a bulleted list of the sports available for improved clarity? Include the name of each sporting venue and what game modes are available in each. (see drop down sections here for info http://rare.co.uk/games/kinect-sports)
  2. Can you include more details on the post-launch Party Pack and Calorie Challenge DLC? (See http://rare.co.uk/news/kinect-sports-party-pack-dlc and http://rare.co.uk/news/break-a-sweat-with-kinect-sports-calorie-challenge)
  3. Are you able to create a list of the licensed music used in the game, as this is frequently requested information? (See http://rare.co.uk/blog/2010/11/16/kinect-sports-the-track-list)
  4. Can you describe the Kinect Sports Facebook app? (See http://rare.co.uk/news/introducing-kinect-sports-facebook-app and http://apps.facebook.com/kinectsports/)
  5. Can we you supply you with additional screenshots of the game, e.g. a screenshot for each sport? If so, please let me know where to send them.
  6. Can you expand the BAFTA mention into a fuller awards subsection stating all major award nominations and wins to date? (See separate list below)
  7. Can you include mention of the successful Guinness World Record attempt for the largest simultaneous online 100m sprint? (See http://www.rare.co.uk/news/xbox-live-kinect-sports-guinness-world-record)
  8. The mention in the Sales section about receiving the game for free upon signing up for Verizon Wireless seems a little out of place and opportunistic.
  9. We would question the need for links to Wii Sports Resort and Sports Champions – two games made by different developers for different consoles. The Wii Sports Resort page does not have a reciprocal link back to Kinect Sports, and Sports Champions is not mentioned anywhere else on this page.
  10. Clarity needs to be added to the external links: coming after the ‘Official Kinect Sports Website’ link, both ‘Kinect Sports Leaderboards’ and ‘Kinect Sports Easter Eggs, Tips & Tricks’ sound similarly official but are actually links to forum threads on a Kinect fansite.
  11. Can we add a link to the official Kinect Sports page on Xbox.com (http://marketplace.xbox.com/Product/Kinect-Sports/66acd000-77fe-1000-9115-d8024d5308c9) – changing the existing Rare site link to ‘Kinect Sports on Developer Website’ if necessary?

Awards:

Hope the above is all clear, but please let me know if not!

Many thanks,

Neal - Rare Ltd (talk) 13:12, 10 August 2011 (UTC)--94.245.127.12[reply]


Helo Neal. These are my own personal opinions on your questions, others may have different views so we'll see what transpires and then go from there.
  1. We tend to prefer prose over bulleted lists. Although comparing the sports and their mini-games with the link you provided I'd say that there's room for more detail in the WP version.
  2. No problem with the DLC being added.
  3. Soundtracks can be added as a list if it has been released as a stand-alone CD or iTunes album. If not, no. Although mention of the music and a couple of artists by way of example should be OK.
  4. Facebook app shouldn't be a problem if mentioned in a marketing context.
  5. Screen shots. You would need to release the images under a specific license. Not my field of expertise. Will prod WT:VG to answer this one specifically.
  6. You can add the awards and nominations yourself as they're not controversial. Just add the text and put a reference at the end in this manner <ref>http://www.bafta.org/awards-database.html?year=2011&category=Games&award=Family</ref> and we'll take care of the rest.
  7. Guinness World Record attempt - Should be OK in a Marketing section if covered by a third party source. Would need more than just your own reference to support it though.
  8. Verizon - agree. Will kill it after I finish typing this.
  9. See also. They all look valid to me. Motion control games with a sport theme. "We would question the need for links to" you came over a bit corporate and threatening there Neal, moderate the tone please old chap, we're all volunteers dontchknow. ;-)
  10. In 99% of cases forums shouldn't be linked to in the External links section. Will check and deal with it if needed.
  11. "Can we add a link to the official Kinect Sports page..." - Yep, seems OK.
  12. Above all, thank you for talking to us. What is it with developers avoiding Wikipedia? We don't bite. - X201 (talk) 11:30, 11 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Hi, thanks very much for getting back to me so quickly. Apologies for the tone of point 9. I copied and pasted it from an email and forgot to re-word it. No offence intended!
I'll have a go at adding the Awards section myself, apologies in advance if I stuff up the formatting!
An additional source regarding the Guinness World Record (point 7) can be found here http://news.softpedia.com/news/Xbox-Live-Users-Set-New-World-Record-With-Kinect-Sports-197138.shtml
Thanks again --Neal - Rare Ltd (talk) 12:13, 11 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Neal, regarding screenshots, you'll see that screenshots on Wikipedia are low quality and low resolution. That's because they're used under a fair use license, and Wikipedia wants to promote free use images. Releasing something under a free use license such as CC-BY-SA would reduce the control you have over an image, but it means high quality screenshots can be used anywhere on Wikipedia, which could increase exposure of your titles. For example, this free use screenshot is used in Adventure game, Graphic adventure game as well as The Whispered World - this is on top of uses in foreign language Wikipedias, some which do not allow fair use at all.
If you wish to release any screenshots under a free use license, please email me and I'll help you through the process. - hahnchen 20:54, 11 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Neal- I agree with X201's assessment of your points.
In regard to the "See also" links. That section is to provide the reader with additional information absent from the article, but is still related to the article's topic. Sports Champions#See also has similar links, and I just updated Wii Sports Resort#See also with links to the this article and Sports Champions as they are appropriate there as well.
In regard to the Softpedia link, I'm not sure if Wikipedia considers it reliable or not. The only discussion I found in our archives about it is here: Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Video games/Sources/Archive 3#Can Softpedia be used as a source?. The result seemed ambiguous though. If it is in a promotion/marketing section, you would probably be ok with citing a press release.
And to reiterate X201's last point, please spread the word that we're quite happy to strengthen community relations with developers. Wikipedia's policies and guidelines can be difficult to navigate, and there are plenty here that are willing to help you build the encyclopedia here. (Guyinblack25 talk 21:51, 11 August 2011 (UTC))[reply]
Thanks very much for the additional imput and clarification on the 'see also links'.
Regarding The Guinness World Record success, there is additional coverage here http://www.360sync.com/2011/04/27/kinect-sports-set-guinness-world-record, here http://www.dualshockers.com/2011/04/27/xbox-live-sets-world-record-during-free-live-weekend/ and here http://zombiegamer.co.za/xbox-nations-guinness-world-record-achieved. Are any of these suitable 3rd party sources? Guinness' own website includes it here http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/Search/Details/Largest-online-100-metre-sprint/75522.htm
I'll need to take advice from colleagues at this end regarding releasing the additional screenshots. I wasn't aware of the potential implications, so thanks very much for explaining that!
Regarding the other points which seem to be ok (Specifically: expanding the detail on each sport, the two bits of DLC, the creation of a Marketing section, mention of the Facebook app, World Record Attempt and a couple of licenced artists from the soundtrack), am I right in thinking you guys will handle that? Or would you like me to do this? --Neal - Rare Ltd (talk) 08:22, 12 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
References: Neal we have a list of websites that we consider reliable sources over at WP:VG/RS. Whilst one of the ones you listed - dualshockers - isn't outright banned, I think they eventually ended up blacklisted due to them spamming links to their own articles as references. Guinesses' own website is perfectly OK. - X201 (talk) 10:45, 12 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I have no problem with you adding them; just a few pointers though: Don't copy and paste from either the MS or Rare pages; it causes copyright problems for Wikipedia and anything in contravention will be removed. Don't use advertising speak; have a look at the articles listed at WP:VG/FA and use a similar style/tone. Also Wii Sports is a featured article and will be an appropriate comparison. But above all, be prepared to have others edit anything you add and even remove it if necessary (though that's an extreme). Just put it up there, and we'll sort it out. Once again though, thank you for talking to us. Both Rare/MS and Wikipedia can benefit from it, although you may want clean off that dusty filing cabinet in the cellar though, we'll probably try to pump you for other info as well. - X201 (talk) 10:29, 12 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Just to confirm: I've now gone through the article and made the amendments which have been discussed above. Thanks very much for all your assistance with this, much appreciated! --Neal - Rare Ltd (talk) 13:21, 15 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Providing screenshots under a free license

With regards to the above, it is best to advise Neal on the ramifications of releasing screenshots of his company's product under a "free" license (remember the debacle with Ubisoft images).

First off, Neal, "free content" on Wikipedia means that the material can be used by anyone for any purposes, including commercial ones. If your company choose to release a screenshot of Kinect Sport under a free license, someone else can print it on a shirt (or mug, box, mousepad, whatever) and sell it for their own gain. They can even use that specific screenshot to copy the interfaces or create derivative 3D models of those depicted for their own games. For example, currently there is a screenshot of Kinect Soccer. If that was released under a "free" license, the reuser can create a game that has exactly the same interface (directional arrows for kicking, scoreboard, etc) and models and sell it. He can also recreate the depicted end of the stadium for his game.

If your company licensed the screenshot under a Creative Commons license, the re-user only has to attribute/credit your company to "use" the provided image freely. If your company released the screenshot into the public domain, they are free to do whatever they want. The only "control" your company would have over such "free" content would be moral rights: in the event that the reuse is of gross violation to the integrity of the author's work, only then might the author have legal grounds to demand the reuser to cease reuse of the content (even then that is not Wikipedia's responsibility).

Secondly, if your company decides to go ahead, please get your legal team (on copyright) to send the authorization email (see commons:Commons:OTRS for further details).

When there are no "free" screenshots, the article might still include a few screenshots if it helps readers to further understand the article. As Wikipedia is meant to provide "free content", non-free images are subjected to conditions (WP:NFCC) more stringent than the standard fair-use in the US. As such, unless the screenshot is meant to help a reader understand a certain important point (and text cannot do the job properly), it would be deemed a decorative content and possibly be removed. Jappalang (talk) 00:59, 12 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for this extra info! I'll take advice from colleagues at my end and get back to you should we wish to proceed! --Neal - Rare Ltd (talk) 08:22, 12 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Some of what Jappalang says is not entirely correct. It overstates what can be done with a free image. You only release a 2D image of the game for free, you control what images you release. This is not enough to replicate a UI, which is based around interaction - it can only be used to replicate specific UI elements, and even then - they would have to license the fonts separately. You would not be able to replicate the 3D models of the characters without a lot of rework, slavishly copying the dimensions of the screenshot and then mapping and stretching the flat textures to map onto your new model. Which you then have to animate. - hahnchen 12:54, 12 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
What they could do quite easily though, would be to do a Limbo of the Lost, where they took screenshots of other games and used it as a background their point and click adventure. Obviously, the problem with that one was that those screenshots were not free - and so it was a copyright violation. - hahnchen 13:09, 12 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Not to drag out this part of the conversation too much, but Hahnchen and Jappalang bring up some very valid points. I think that the practical applications lie somewhere in the middle of those two points.
The free license would allow anyone to make derivative works of the material. That would include 3D models based on the content of the image. Others would not have to copy image elements directly or even exactly, because derivative content by definition does not have be a perfect replica. However, the functionality of the models is another issue entirely. Some aspects of it are so basic that any type of legal actions would be pointless. For example, there's little stopping another developer from making a game with similar gameplay, which is quite a common practice in the industry. Copyrights are also different from patent and trademark rights, which could also come into play depending on the content that is mimicked.
To summarize, both Hahnchen and Jappalang are right when they say that you give up control of the image. This is not at all like supplying a gaming news publication with screenshots in a media kit. Like all decisions, there are consequences (good and bad). We suggest that you and your team weigh those consequences to arrive at a decision Rare is comfortable with. Which ever route is chosen, we'll also be glad to help you pick a suitable screenshot. (Guyinblack25 talk 14:16, 12 August 2011 (UTC))[reply]

Awards and Sales sections[edit]

Hi, I notice that the previous Sales and Awards sub-sections on this page have recently been merged into the Reception section. Am I ok to revert back to what was previously there? The new wording is quite muddled and includes a couple of errors.--Neal - Rare Ltd (talk) 12:06, 5 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I've re-jigged it in line with the way we do other articles. Prose in the awards section is preferred over a list style. But I've added the awards section to the reviews template for the BAFTA. - X201 (talk) 13:55, 5 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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