Talk:Kingdom of Burundi

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This article needs a ton of work[edit]

The Kingdom of Burundi ended somewhere between 1885 and 1910, as [German East Africa] was established, and was certainly not functional after WWI, when Rwanda and Burundi were controlled by Belgium. The article currently says the Kingdom lasted until 1966. JoshNarins (talk) 17:36, 13 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

That's a misunderstanding. The kingdom did exist under Belgian rule as a ruling structure of indirect rule and survived into independence.—Brigade Piron (talk) 10:51, 11 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The Ganwa[edit]

The Gabwa are not tutsi and neither was the founder of their Dynasty Ntare Rushatsi yet history page claims tutsi founded the Burundi kingdom without giving a source. My edit which is sourced was deleted in favor of the sourceless/dubious claim. Speedgrapher16 (talk) 00:00, 17 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Don't worry, I will adjust the article to include the Ganwa and Banyamabanga. I only reverted your additions because they were borderline-copyvio and poorly worded, not because their content was wrong. Applodion (talk) 09:48, 17 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

oral sources claim ntare rushatsi came from buha in tanzania. no oral source claims any "hima" tribe came from ethiopia Speedgrapher16 (talk) 10:55, 28 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

how could they have assimilated the bantu when they speak bantu langusges and practice bantu culture such as the drum as the symbol of the kingdom? Speedgrapher16 (talk) 10:56, 28 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

hima are only in uganda not burundi or ethiopia Speedgrapher16 (talk) 10:57, 28 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Speedgrapher16: I just updated the article with the alternate theories about the Rwanda and Buha origins. Either way, we report what the sources say. The Hima theory is reported by a reliable source and does not seem connected to the colonial era claims, so why shouldn't we include it? It's not as if you somehow know every single existing oral account.
Regarding the assimilation question. "Assimilated" can mean anything ranging from intermarriage to cultural changes to economic developments to being conquered; the source uses the term without saying what exactly they mean. Applodion (talk) 11:06, 28 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Many traditions claim Ntare Rushatsi to have been a Hutu as well. It controversal and bias to just claim the ganwa as descendants of tutsi only. https://books.google.com/books?id=FngMAQAAMAAJ&q=ntare+rushatsi+hutu&dq=ntare+rushatsi+hutu&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&source=gb_mobile_search&ovdme=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjKjun0p4P7AhXUJjQIHX75Au04ChDoAXoECAsQAw#ntare%20rushatsi%20hutu Speedgrapher16 (talk) 16:14, 28 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

"At least since the Ntare dynasty , leading Tutsi clans had intermarried with leading Hutu clans who shared power , in the form of a pact indeed , evidence suggested that the first of the Ntare kings was Hutu . It was the Hutu clans who..." quote ends here https://books.google.com/books?id=lD8_AQAAIAAJ&q=At+least+since+the+Ntare+dynasty+,+leading+Tutsi+clans+had+intermarried+with+leading+Hutu+clans+who+shared+power+,+in+the+form+of+a+pact+indeed+,+evidence+suggested+that+the+first+of+the+Ntare+kings+was+Hutu&dq=At+least+since+the+Ntare+dynasty+,+leading+Tutsi+clans+had+intermarried+with+leading+Hutu+clans+who+shared+power+,+in+the+form+of+a+pact+indeed+,+evidence+suggested+that+the+first+of+the+Ntare+kings+was+Hutu&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&source=gb_mobile_search&ovdme=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjJ8_2ZqoP7AhXzIH0KHeefDccQ6AF6BAgKEAM#At%20least%20since%20the%20Ntare%20dynasty%20,%20leading%20Tutsi%20clans%20had%20intermarried%20with%20leading%20Hutu%20clans%20who%20shared%20power%20,%20in%20the%20form%20of%20a%20pact%20indeed%20,%20evidence%20suggested%20that%20the%20first%20of%20the%20Ntare%20kings%20was%20Hutu Speedgrapher16 (talk) 16:24, 28 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I will add the alternate Hutu descent to the article. Applodion (talk) 16:45, 28 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Speedgrapher16: And the article you added as source for Bantu migration does not mention Burundi at all. Applodion (talk) 16:48, 28 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

the source says the first bantu migrants settled rwanda/burundi/southern uganda in the year 1,000BC which was 3,000 years ago Speedgrapher16 (talk) 18:25, 28 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Speedgrapher16: Where? The ref you used said that Bantu groups were active in Sudan around 1000 BC, not in Burundi. Applodion (talk) 20:25, 28 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

this source shows that bantu groups were in Burundi sinc ebefore 800BCE https://www.jstor.org/stable/183030 Speedgrapher16 (talk) 07:46, 29 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Speedgrapher16: This source I can't access. Can you quote the sentence and the page number? Then I would add it to the article. Applodion (talk) 09:20, 29 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]