Talk:Kirkandrews, Dumfries and Galloway/GA1

GA Review[edit]

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Reviewer: Epicgenius (talk · contribs) 21:20, 10 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Full review to come.

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
It is reasonably well written. a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists): It is factually accurate and verifiable. a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism): It is broad in its coverage. a (major aspects): b (focused): It follows the neutral point of view policy. Fair representation without bias: It is stable. No edit wars, etc.: It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate. a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
Overall: Pass/Fail:
· · ·

Prose[edit]

Lead:

In general, I wonder if you can add a bit about Kirkandrews's name in the lead.

Done

Maybe you can add a bit about climate and location, as well, in the lead. Maybe one sentence for both.

Partly done I've added a bit more about the location to the lead. I'm not sure what I can easily add about the climate - I give climate data from a nearby weather observation site in the article, but I don't have any sourced prose describing the local climate; interpreting the raw data and putting it into words (e.g. a cool, moist climate) feels a bit too much like OR for comfort; is there anything specific you think I should add?

In that case, it's fine. I think the article would do well with just a mention of location in the lead. epicgenius (talk) 15:53, 11 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

There are no shops in the hamlet, but there is an ancient churchyard with some surviving stonework from a medieval church, a listed village hall that is used for religious services and private events, and a short distance along the coast is an Iron Age dun, largely rebuilt in the early 20th century, which is a scheduled monument. - There are two things I would suggest, but they aren't required. I'd recommend splitting this into a new paragraph, and dividing the sentence into two.

Done I've split this up a bit and added a few more words - let me know what you think.

Hmm, this seems to work. epicgenius (talk) 15:50, 12 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

More comments later. epicgenius (talk) 21:20, 10 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Made some changes, as described above. GirthSummit _(blether) 09:37, 11 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

since the early medieval period. - Is there a link to the "Early medieval period"?

Done

Name

from that of its ruined medieval church, but the history of the church's dedication is not clear. - Not an issue, but I think the "Kirk" part of the name comes from the word for "church", if I remember correctly.

Yes - kirk is Scots for church. It's which Andrew it's named after which is rather vexed - if I'm honest, I think the Northumbrian/Irish saint stuff is folklore, but at least one modern work still states it as fact. Most modern scholarship seems to go with it being a later naming for the apostle.

George Chalmers however, in his account of Scottish history Caledonia, indicates that it was named for the apostle St Andrew, the patron saint of Scotland, - Would it make sense to split this to a new paragraph?

Done

apostle St Andrew - I suggest rewording this to prevent consecutive links, per Wikipedia:SEAOFBLUE

Done

and R. C. Reid, a fellow of the Society of Antiquaries of Scotland, argued that the original name of the church must have been lost because the prefix 'Kirk' is not one that would have been used at the time when Ionian monks were active in the area. - I would suggest splitting the bit about Reid to its own sentence. Maybe combine it with the next sentence too.

Done

Location

No issues.

Climate

considerably higher than Kirkandrews which is around 10 metres (33 ft) above sea level - I suggest splitting this to another sentence; the rest of it seems to be discussing Dundrennan's location. Or maybe moving this bit to "Location" (which would then have to be renamed "Geography").

Done Sentence split, sections merged as suggested

History

in the form of is a 1st-century BCE dun - typo

Done

This structure, shows signs of reuse in the late first millennium - The comma may be unnecessary.

Done

coastline to the north-west, south west Scotland, etc. - The intercardinal directions should be consistently formatted. Either use hyphens, spaces, or nothing in between.

Done

and another one some miles away - I suppose "one" would be unnecessary here, i.e. "and another some miles away"

Done

brother to Ralph de Champaign, constable of Roxburgh Castle. - I think this can be rephrased or condensed somewhat, e.g. "brother to Roxburgh Castle's constable Ralph de Champaign". The reason I mention this is because of the use of two commas, which may seem to signify that "brother to Ralph de Champaign" is a parenthetical or clarifying phrase.

Done

the earthworks of which stronghold survive - "Stronghold" would also be unnecessary because the word was previously mentioned in the previous phrase.

Done

It passed to his son, also named Robert, and then to his daughter Margaret and her husband, Bernard de Rippelay, a Northumbrian nobleman - I would reword this too because the last two commas also may be interpreted as a clarifying phrase. E.g. "and her husband, a Northumbrian nobleman named Bernard de Rippelay".

Done

and go on to explain that it previously been a centre of smuggling but that customs officers had seized all the village's boats and broken up the racket, leaving the inhabitants with no means of making an income - First, I would consider whether to make this its own sentence. Second, are you able to narrow down the period when this was a smuggling hub?

Partly done I've split it into a separate sentence. The source doesn't let me expand on the timeframes unfortunately - they are vague on this.

No worries. epicgenius (talk) 18:32, 12 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

all in a distinctive and unusual style - any specific style?

One or two of the guidebooks refer to it as the Coo Palace style, but I'm not sure that our readers would be able to make much of that. It really is very idiosyncratic. I could add some verbiage about it being principally Gothic Revival, with elements of/influenced by Arts and Crafts and Art Nouveau, if you think that wouldn't be too cumbersome?

Yeah, I think that would work, adding a few words about these architectural styles. epicgenius (talk) 18:32, 12 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Done Let me know what you think.

Looks good. epicgenius (talk) 15:57, 14 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

include a folly known as the Toy Fort,[32] Corseyard Farm, a dairy built to resemble a large castle tower,[33] and within Kirkandrews itself a village hall known as Kirkandrews Kirk.[34] - Since this is a serial list with a comma within the list item, I would change the commas after "Toy Fort" and "castle tower" to semicolons.

Done

More later. epicgenius (talk) 15:51, 12 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks - I've done most of this, but see a couple of comments above. GirthSummit _(blether) 17:44, 12 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Courtesy ping to Epicgenius - I think I've addressed all your points so far. Please continue the review at your own pace, not wanting to pressure you, just wanted to make sure you'd seen the latest changes. Cheers GirthSummit _(blether) 20:12, 13 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Girth Summit, no problem. I'll finish off this review either later today or tomorrow, since I am currently at work. epicgenius (talk) 20:15, 13 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks - sorry to disturb you at work! GirthSummit _(blether) 20:17, 13 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Kirkandrews today

The first building the road comes to is Kirkandrews Kirk - "the road comes to" is somewhat awkward in this context. Would it be better to say something like "the road approaches" or "the road passes"?
"Arts and Crafts" is a duplicate link.
and since Lance Corporal Francis James Elms, who died in October 1918 during First World War, is buried there, the churchyard is registered as a Commonwealth War Grave. - Not a big issue, but "since" can mean one of two things here: "because of", or "from the time that". It may be good to change this to "because".
It is built on a rocky promontory, with inner and outer walls, it is the only known example in Galloway of this type of structure, which is more common in Argyll and the Outer Hebrides. - this is a run-on sentence. It could probably be split after "inner and outer walls", or the comma after that phrase can be turned into a semicolon.
The outer wall, roughly 2.7 metres (8.9 ft) thick, encloses an area of 39 metres (128 ft) by 20 metres (66 ft), with entrances to the north-east and south-east. The inner enclosure is approximately 18 metres (59 ft) by 11 metres (36 ft), and there are steps up to the top of the walls in the north east corner - there are inconsistencies in whether the intercardinal directions are spaced or hyphenated.

That's it for prose. I'll take a look at the refs next. epicgenius (talk) 15:57, 14 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Epicgenius, thanks - agree with all of your points, all

Done. GirthSummit _(blether) 16:31, 14 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

POV and coverage[edit]

I didn't see significant issues here. The article seems to be focused on the main aspects of the topic, and neutrally presented. epicgenius (talk) 16:06, 14 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

References[edit]

Formatting is good.
All of the references seem to be from reliable sources.
None of the statements seem explicitly unsourced.

Spot checks (optional):

3 - offline
4 - offline
9 - checks out
14 - both usages check out
34 - both usages check out
41 - offline

Since a lot of the references are offline, and since this is intended to be lighter touch than FAC, I'm going to AGF on these references. But the online ones I checked are verifiable. epicgenius (talk) 16:06, 14 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Images and copyright[edit]

Images are appropriately licensed.
There are no copyright violations that I can detect.

General comments[edit]

Although this article was created within the past week, it has one primary author. I would thus consider this article to be stable. epicgenius (talk) 21:20, 10 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

All of the above issues have been resolved, so I think this meets the Good Article criteria now. epicgenius (talk) 16:34, 14 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Epicgenius, brilliant! Thanks for your speedy responses and very thorough review - much appreciated. GirthSummit _(blether) 16:40, 14 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]