Talk:Kolkata Metro

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Good articleKolkata Metro has been listed as one of the Engineering and technology good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Did You Know Article milestones
DateProcessResult
February 20, 2020Good article nomineeNot listed
May 19, 2020Good article nomineeNot listed
July 30, 2020Good article nomineeListed
Did You Know A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "Did you know?" column on August 29, 2020.
The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that India's first metro, the Kolkata Metro, was first proposed in 1919 but became operational only in 1984?
Current status: Good article

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Updated the article[edit]

This article and the related articles like routes, stations etc. were outdated. So I updated them, based on the official website of-

If u have any issues regarding the edits and update, lets have a talk in my talkpage.
Saha ( talk ) 17:27, 17 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion regarding the Line Colours[edit]

As per the articles on the lines, the colour schemes are-

  • Line 1 - NAVY
  • Line 2 - RED
  • Line 3 - YELLOW
  • Line 4 - ORANGE
  • Line 5 - PINK
  • Line 6 - GREEN

Recently I came across this official map (https://mtp.indianrailways.gov.in/uploads/files/1504000368490-System%20Map%20of%20Metro%20Railway_31_03_2017.jpg), where the colour scheme is different.

  • Line 1 - NAVY
  • Line 2 - GREEN
  • Line 3 - VIOLET
  • Line 4 - RED
  • Line 5 - Pink
  • Line 6 - ORANGE

Since till now, no colour coding system exits, we can either keep the current one, or update according to the official map. I have put this here, so that the editors can have a discussion. Saha ( talk ) 07:04, 19 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@ImSonyR9: @SNag.in: @Bipradipmandal: @Ranban282: @খাঁ শুভেন্দু: @Sagnick007: @Sagnickacharya: @Mattximus:

Thanks, Saha for informing. I have already corrected those route colors as much as possible. ImSonyR9 (talk · contribs)

editors of kolkata metro[edit]

Soumo Dutt (talk · contribs), ImSonyR9 (talk · contribs) now we have Rail-interchange icons. use them check here

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Confused[edit]

@ArnabSaha:Could you tell me why you removed my diagram？If there are any errors in this diagram, please tell me. Thanks. -Painjet (talk) 16:19, 22 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Painjet, hi
1) the map was incorrect. some stations aren't operational, but was included
2) operational map was given in the evolution of kolkata metro map. ❯❯❯ S A H A 17:32, 22 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@ArnabSaha:Ok, I got it, thanks. The evolution of kolkata metro map is a gif file. I do not think it is intuitive for readers. Obviously, the svg or png is more suitable.-Painjet (talk) 06:41, 23 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Painjet, remove dakshineshwar, baranagar and phoolbagan from the map. also remove the heading. ❯❯❯ S A H A 07:54, 23 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
ArnabSaha, Ok.Painjet (talk) 08:00, 23 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
It is certainly better to show operational map in the infobox, not the map with uc/planned lines. Jklamo (talk) 08:38, 23 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Possible suggestions[edit]

Here is a list of suggestions I have for this page.

  • Expand the lead section (the very top) a bit, to 3 paragraphs at the very least. Possibly have the second paragraph talk about history and the third paragraph talk about operations, fares, etc. But don't make it too long.  Done
  • Per WP:CITELEAD, citations aren't really needed in the lead section if they are also used elsewhere.  Done
  • In "History", clarify what independence is. Indian independence?  Done
  • Use {{convert}} to convert km to miles where applicable.  Done
  • Avoid using terms like "crore" per MOS:CRORE, unless you link them or provide a clarification.  Done
  • By 2011-12, the Railway Ministry announced plans for the construction of five new metro lines and an extension of the existing North-South corridor. - what is the status of this?  Done
  • For the "Network" section, should it be part of the "Lines" section? Also, these tables need more sources, particularly for track gauge and length.  Done

More later. epicgenius (talk) 17:56, 27 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Epicgenius,
  • the lines mentioned in the 6th point (2011-12) are the same 5 lines mentioned in the network. (line 2, 3, 4, 5, 6)
  • the 7th point 'network section', is similar to Delhi Metro. In that article also, network and lines are different. and I also think it is better, otherwise, further sub-headings will be required for the line names, which won't look good...
  • now regarding the WP:CITELEAD, the citations aren't used elsewhere, so better keep them. ❯❯❯ S A H A 14:56, 28 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Alright, I will respond to these one by one.
  • the lines mentioned in the 6th point (2011-12) are the same 5 lines mentioned in the network. (line 2, 3, 4, 5, 6) - in this case, you can have a link to the section below, in "network".  Done
  • I see your point about keeping "network" separate.
  • the citations aren't used elsewhere, so better keep them - preferably, the citations should be used somewhere else in the article.
Also:
  • Sentences like It has a combination of elevated, ground-level and underground lines - in these cases, you might mean "tracks".  Done
  • Use {{TrackGauge}} for track gauges. E.g. instead of {{convert|1676|mm}}, use {{TrackGauge|1676mm}}.  Done
  • Relatively minor information, such as signal upgrades and the stations in metro extensions, should usually be moved to the respective articles about the lines.
  • Kolkata Metro is the busiest metro system in India based on passengers carried per service. Each service carries an average of 2,465 people, while Delhi carries 1,111. - this isn't usually a metric used to measure ridership.
  • Platform lengths, and the fact that certain stations have island or side platforms, are usually not important and can be removed.
More later. epicgenius (talk) 15:04, 28 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Epicgenius,
  • this isn't usually a metric used to measure ridership - ya. i know. but, on the basis of per km or per service, it tops. so I mentioned.
  • this case, you can have a link to the section below, in "network" - linked them.
  • preferably, the citations should be used somewhere else in the article - removed all except one. couldn't shift it anywhere.
  • signal upgrades - keeping this, since it is the only system in India to have this. ❯❯❯ S A H A 18:08, 30 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
OK, here are more comments.
  • Further expansions - can you note which ones are now underway, which ones have been confirmed, and which have not been confirmed/are canceled, if any?
  • 55 – 60 km/h - use the {{convert}} template  Done
  • Navigation information is available on Google Maps. - is this noteworthy? Seems to be quite common.
  • Are "Tokens" and "Smart Card" supposed to be subsections of "Fares"? {{done}
  • Durga Puja special services - can you summarize what Durga Puja is, in a single sentence? What is pandal-hopping?  Done
  • What is lac? Seems to fall under WP:CRORE  Done
  • The newly inaugurated Line 2 - as of when?
  • Since the electrification of Kolkata metro is of the 3rd Rail - "since the Kolkata metro uses third-rail electrification". There are more minor grammar errors like these, but I think a copy-editor will pick them up.
These are my final comments so far. epicgenius (talk) 19:13, 3 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Epicgenius,
  • Further expansions- no progress regarding that. those are surveyed and planned since the existing lines aren't complete yet, the govt decided not to sanction any new.
  • Navigation information is available on Google Maps- in India, the feature is new. also for other modes of transport. and found this in the Delhi metro too.
  • The newly inaugurated Line 2- 13 Feb, 2020. just after a month, lockdown happened, and that's why very less ridership. and it's too low w.r.t. to Line 1, so mentioned "new" ❯❯❯ S A H A 19:23, 3 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review[edit]

GA toolbox
Reviewing
This review is transcluded from Talk:Kolkata Metro/GA3. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Epicgenius (talk · contribs) 21:18, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]


I will review this soon. I note that there have been two previous reviews, but after extensive consultations with the nominator, this has been improved greatly. Still, I hope to post feedback soon. epicgenius (talk) 21:18, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

GA review
(see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
  1. It is reasonably well written.
    a (prose, spelling, and grammar):
    b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):
  2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.
    a (references):
    b (citations to reliable sources):
    c (OR):
    d (copyvio and plagiarism):
  3. It is broad in its coverage.
    a (major aspects):
    b (focused):
  4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.
    Fair representation without bias:
  5. It is stable.
    No edit wars, etc.:
  6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
    a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales):
    b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

Overall:
Pass/Fail:

· · ·


Prose[edit]

  • There are a total of 358 services everyday - "every day" in this case as "everyday" is an adverb

More to come. epicgenius (talk) 21:18, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

solved this issue ❯❯❯   S A H A 12:19, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • An east–west metro railway connection, named the "East–West Tube Railway", was proposed for Kolkata in 1921 by Harley Dalrymple-Hay, but it was ultimately not undertaken due to a lack of funds in 1923. - I'd move the "in 1923" part earlier. I'd suggest "it was cancelled in 1923" or something similar. Also, this needs a source.
  • 'Shield Tunneling' & 'Cut & Cover' - these should be lowercase, and the "&" should be "and".
  • Despite this, services began on 24 October 1984 - I wonder whether this should be a new paragraph.
  • by bridging the 1.80 km (1.12 mi) gap in the middle - a gap between which stations?
  • had 50–50 shares in it - I'd suggest "each had a half-share". It's not clear that this is a percent
  • Major modifications: I'd suggest making these paragraphs instead of bullet points.

More later. epicgenius (talk) 19:06, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Epicgenius, done ❯❯❯   S A H A 18:51, 17 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Should the Kolkata Metro route map be collapsed by default? Generally this is discouraged per MOS:COLLAPSE.
  • A major realignment in June 2016 increased the length to 16.55 km (10.28 mi) (10.81 km (6.72 mi) underground, 5.77 km (3.59 mi) elevated). - any way to rephrase this? This consists of several parentheses back to back.
  • (12.40 km (7.71 mi)), etc. - In places where parentheses are nested, I would suggest using |disp=sqbr in the {{convert}} template.
  • The system operates between 06:45 and 21:55 - Here, I would add the relevant timezone.
  • Tourist Smart Card: - Maybe have this as a subsection instead
  • These type of smart cards, are for - The singular/plural is inconsistent and should be "These types of smart cards are for" or "This type of smart card is for"
  • Currently, Presently, Recently, etc - as of when? There are a bunch of these in the article.
  • Indian Railways gave a go-ahead to the proposal, and installation work is supposed to be complete within 2–3 years - from what date?
  • Also, Indian Railways - I'd advice against starting a sentence with "Also", and suggest "In addition".
  • All these lead to snags, delays and accidents - "All of these factors have lead to..."
done ❯❯❯   S A H A 14:40, 29 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
also, I would like to add that, it's better to keep the route map collapsed, since its big. ❯❯❯   S A H A 18:41, 29 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@ArnabSaha: On Discord, SounderBruce pointed out a few more MOS issues. I have fixed most of these, but looking again, there are still a few concerns I had:

  • Consider converting the bullet lists to prose.
  • (about 4 km (2.5 mi) shorter than the current East-West Corridor) - should the outer parentheses instead be dashes, commas, or other punctuation?
  • Presently truncated till Howrah Maidan - truncated past Howrah Maidan?
  • It uses the five-and-a-half-foot (1.7-metre) Indian gauge, a broad gauge rolling stock. - Technically the track isn't itself "rolling stock", so you can cut that. Rolling stock refers to the trains.

I didn't find any glaring errors, and I still think this is nearing GA status, though Sounder might think differently. Hopefully we can straighten out these issues before promotion. epicgenius (talk) 00:51, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Epicgenius,
  1. the 1971 masterplan was from Saltlake/bidhannagar to ramrajatala. (google map). but when the line was sanction in 2008, it was till howrah maidan. in future, it might go to ramrajatala (the section was surveyed again in 2012) ❯❯❯   S A H A 08:17, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    ArnabSaha, All right. So it would be Salt Lake to Howrah Maidan instead of the full route? Is that correct? epicgenius (talk) 14:11, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Epicgenius, ya. but calling it full route might be wrong. the 2008 plan was from saltlake to howrah maidan only. ramrajatala will be an extension of it. ❯❯❯   S A H A 14:42, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
2. actually this is a wrong sentence. The Kolkata Metro Line 1 uses broad gauge tracks, thus broad gauge bogies. but the twist is, the shells are of same dimensions as metre gauge train shell. ❯❯❯   S A H A 15:16, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
ArnabSaha, I see. I think this may need to be clarified, then. epicgenius (talk) 16:09, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Epicgenius, done ❯❯❯   S A H A 16:26, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

POV and coverage[edit]

No issues here.

References[edit]

  • Some of these references do not have dates and some do. Same inconsistencies go with authors, and even access dates. This should generally be consistent.
  • Also, check that reference formatting is consistent. For telegraphindia.com, I see such different formatting as "The Telegraph.", "The Telegraph. Calcutta, India." and "www.telegraphindia.com"
  • The Times of India references need to be formatted better.
  • Is ref 10 actually to web.archive.org, or is it to a different website?
  • Ref 13 should be formatted, because readers can see the bare url.
  • Some of these titles are in all-caps and should be title case.

Overall, the formatting needs a bit of work. epicgenius (talk) 21:48, 28 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

done ❯❯❯   S A H A 18:40, 29 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Some of the refs like <noqiki>Dec 2, Rupak Banerjee are still formatted a bit strangely. Some of the www.telegraphindia.com references need publication dates, and the work should be given as "The Telegraph". In addition, other references may need publication dates too. epicgenius (talk) 18:54, 29 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
done ❯❯❯   S A H A 14:43, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Images and copyright[edit]

  • All images are appropriately licensed, even the non-free logo.
  • Hmm, the logo only contains non photographic data. Do you think you can create an SVG version out of it? There are many SVG creation tools out there such as Inkscape and Adobe Illustrator. Having an SVG logo would be very useful; for more information, see c:Help:SVG. Ainz Ooal Gown (talk) 20:55, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Ainz Ooal Gown, i made it .svg. but the original file was in png, so last moment changes and converted it to .png . The individual logos are .svg. ❯❯❯   S A H A 05:28, 19 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    I, for one, think scalable vector graphics are better than bitmap images. MediaWiki renders all SVG files as PNG (if you are worried about that). Anyhow, this isn't really a requirement for this article to be GA. But using an SVG for logos is always advised. Ainz Ooal Gown (talk) 09:14, 19 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Ainz Ooal Gown, then, it can be made like this Esplanade metro station ❯❯❯   S A H A 16:50, 19 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
done ❯❯❯   S A H A

General comments[edit]

  • I'd advise against ₹5 (7.0¢ US) to ₹30 (42¢ US). per MOS:CURRENCY - instead I would suggest US$0.42
  • Shyambazar-Belgachhia Section (Shield tunneling using compressed air and airlocks) using Hungarian expertise during its construction in 1980s. - This caption is interesting. Could it be expanded in the body, and/or could you add a reference to the caption (for the fact that Hungarians were consultants)? epicgenius (talk) 21:18, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Epicgenius, see this. can this be used as a source? https://www.tunneltalk.com/TunnelCast.php also the description of the photo says (translated by google translate) "A '4B' slightly unusual forehead support after the Soviet-induced rupture from the steel structure built into the tubbings". btw, i have added this in the construction section. ❯❯❯   S A H A 11:00, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    ArnabSaha, yeah, I think that's fine. epicgenius (talk) 12:43, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    I think this article is good enough, so I'm passing this as a good article now. There are a few minor MOS issues that I've just fixed. epicgenius (talk) 17:53, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Did you know nomination[edit]

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Amkgp (talk) 05:26, 18 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(
)

Improved to Good Article status by ArnabSaha (talk). Self-nominated at 19:16, 30 July 2020 (UTC).[reply]

  • Given this is a recent GA, everything is fine except I am having trouble finding a reference that clearly supports the claim (present only in lead and unreferenced) that it was the first proposed system of this type in India? No qualms about it being the first operational, but can we get a quote for the 'first proposed'? If not I suggest this claim is removed from hook and the lead. The QPQ check tool is broken (or simply fails to confirm the nom has never submitted a DYK before), so I am assuming QPQ is not needed (But it is always welcome!). --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 02:37, 7 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Piotrus, Hi. it was proposed by the British in 1919-20. see the "early attempts" section. also, this is my 3rd dyk, so didnt do qpq. ❯❯❯   S A H A 09:34, 7 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
ArnabSaha But does the source clearly say it was the first proposed, or that no other propositions of its type were made before? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 01:11, 8 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Piotrus, till date no other document has been found. no sources mention any other cities. also, Kolkata was the capital of India till 1911, the British used to build things in Kolkata (example-Tram). the imes of India and theprint sources might help. it says
1) "As per records, for the British, ... They were keen that people avoid the additional expenses of of living in the city and migrate to places like ‘Dum Dum an Baraset"
2) "The underwater tube rail in Kolkata was planned by the British government when they were building a tunnel under the Thames river in London"
3) "the East-West Metro project across the Hooghly was conceptualised by the British in 1921, at the same time as the river Thames was being tunnelled in London" ❯❯❯   S A H A 06:33, 8 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
ArnabSaha Hmmm. I'll ping another experienced DYK reviewer User:Yoninah for the second opinion whether the word proposed is ok. I am still concerned that if no source says so outright it borders on WP:OR. Lack of source to the contrary is not necessarily a confirmation of the fact. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 02:15, 9 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Piotrus, OK. also, I checked multiple Indian cities article, no one mentions before Kolkata. ❯❯❯   S A H A 04:45, 9 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
For what it is worth, I think you are right, but that doesn't mean we can say so per WP:OR. Which is why I asked for another opinion on this. WP:NOTTRUTH etc. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 04:49, 9 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I have 1 more thing to add. Even if the British proposal source is controversial, the 1950 Indian proposal can be considered. As per the official website, "It was Dr. B.C. Roy, the then Chief Minister of West Bengal, who for the first time conceived the idea in 1949 of building an Underground Railway" and "With a view to finding out an alternative solution to alleviate the suffering of the Kolkatans, the Metropolitan Transport Project (Rlys) was set up in 1969." ❯❯❯   S A H A 07:54, 9 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Piotrus and Yoninah: sir/ma'am, the DYK is stuck. ❯❯❯   S A H A 09:13, 16 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • It may be tempting to submit yet another first hook, but you have plenty more in this GA article to write a better hook. This popped out at me:
  • ALT1: ... that as India's first metro, the Kolkata Metro was constructed through trial-and-error over a period of 23 years? Yoninah (talk) 16:59, 16 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Yoninah, this one is also good. the first underwater metro thing can also be added. ❯❯❯   S A H A 19:03, 16 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thanks. Isn't the underwater part still under construction? I thought the two elevated lines are where they've gotten to after 23 years. Pinging @Piotrus: to review ALT1. Yoninah (talk) 19:11, 16 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Yoninah, partially correct. the 1st line is constructed was underground, with 1 station elevated and 1 at-grade. yes, underwater is still under construction.
@Yoninah and ArnabSaha:. The span of construction, which as you may note can be still ongoing, is IMHO not as interesting as pointing out the uncontroversial time range I propise in the following ALT2 below. What do you think? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 01:33, 17 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • ALT2: ...that India's first metro, the Kolkata Metro, was first proposed in 1919 but became operational only in 1984?
Is "ONLY" required here? doesn't seem appropriate. ❯❯❯   S A H A 06:25, 17 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"Only" is fine. It turns it into a hook, as opposed to a statement of fact. Yoninah (talk) 11:05, 17 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
ok then, keep this. ❯❯❯   S A H A 15:02, 17 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Here is a full review: GA received within 7 days of nomination. New enough, long enough, neutrally written, well referenced, no close paraphrasing seen. Images are freely licensed. I have tagged one sentence as needing an inline citation, as it verifies one of the ALT2 hook facts. No QPQ needed for nominator with less than 5 DYK credits. Yoninah (talk) 17:26, 17 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Yoninah, the whole paragraph is a mix of the citations mentioned at the end. ❯❯❯   S A H A 17:59, 17 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • @ArnabSaha: yes, I see that. But we have this DYK rule: WP:DYK#Cited hook, which calls for an inline citation right after the sentence containing the hook fact. Yoninah (talk) 18:00, 17 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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