Talk:Korobeiniki

Untitled

The contents of this page should be merged to Korobeyniki. 23:01, September 14, 2005. (UTC)

Does anyone know who performed the version used as Borat's theme on Da Ali G Show? Kevin143 10:49, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Can someone add the fact that this song was also performed by the band Ozma on the album "The Doubble [sic] Donkey Disc"Centrisian 04:32, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Can anyone translate this a litte better into English? It looks like someone just copy/pasted it into Babel Fish.

I've also heard this song refered to as Korobushka.--71.222.48.14 19:28, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

-after finding sheet music to this song under both Korobeiniki and Korobushka, I added a redirect and the name Korobushka to the article.

Composer

Who is the composer of this song? --Abdull 19:23, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

• I tried to find the composer, but all sites seem to say that Korobeiniki is a folk song. Now it is obvious that the lyrics are by Nekrasov, but it is still possible that it was a folk tune long before him, to which he added this text. Even that has its problems, since there either must have been previous lyrics which, for some strange reason, were surpressed, forgotten and pushed out by Nekrasov's lyrics or it has always been an instrumental tune with no words to it before Nekrasov added them. Both suppositions don't seem very probable to me. --B. Jankuloski 08:25, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Translation

Can anyone provide a translation of the lyrics? --HughCharlesParker (talk - contribs) 22:29, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Current translation is simply horrible :D and right now i'm too lasy to rite it correctly.

I fixed some of the most glaring errors. 66.92.65.145 (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 16:56, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Surely Korobushka means little box, not crate? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.179.146.189 (talk) 01:58, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Literally, yes, but not in the context of this song.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 14:12, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

• I translated the rest of the lyrics using Bing Translate, but some words couldn't be translated properly. I did the same with Google Translate, but I got the same result. After editing, the page in its entirety after the lyrics looked a bit choppy. How can I fix this? PinkTruffles123 (talk) 23:29, 17 August 2013 (UTC)PinkTruffles123

WarioWare?

I'm almost positive this song is used somewhere in the first WarioWare game - can anyone confirm? -Unknownwarrior33 21:13, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Sample Quality

Is there a possibility of linking to a website that has a better sample of the song? The one provided at the website is full of distortion. Being able to clearly hear the lyrics should be taken into consideration. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.169.138.40 (talk) 08:46, 18 March 2007 (UTC).

That link is dead now anyway. 85.181.188.254 (talk) 02:16, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

Trademark

Does anybody know how the trademark was acquired for a song composed in 1861 (at the latest). Are Russian laws different? I figured it would be public domain at this point.--SkiDragon 16:53, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

From what I understand of it, they hold the trademark for use in video games, not on the song itself. The song itself is public domain. 68.84.221.153 19:44, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

They can do that?

Is there any way to make absolutely sure this song is in the public domain? It's difficult to glean from the 5th link to its trademark status. Agent Muu (talk) 04:24, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Tetris Re-do from Counter Strike Source map Dm_tetris

Anyone know what it is called and who made it?

It has guitar and horns in it if that helps (horns are the main instrument. Ive been told that the type of music it is is called lounge music.

I am dieing to find it so I can listen to it without having to go on CS:S. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.5.121.254 (talk) 09:19, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Lyrics

Per request from User:Ezhiki, my justification for removing the lyrics section: First, there's no critical discussion of the lyrics at all. If anything, they should be transwikied to Wikisource, as Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information. Beyond that, there's the issue of the english translation, which is unsourced and either original research or a copyright violation. Are there still objects to removing this section? Wyatt Riot (talk) 22:18, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for your note, Wyatt. First of all, to clarify things (in case I seemed overly harsh in my edit summary, which, I assure you, was not my intent), I do not really consider massive deletion of valuable content to fall under WP:BOLD. Being bold, to me, covers first and foremost additions and changes; as far as deletions go, only non-controversial deletions would fall into that category. The deletion in question is anything but uncontroversial, in my opinion.

I restored the lyrics mainly because not only are they not here in violation of any copyright (I cursory glance at the rest of the article would have been sufficient to establish that the song dates back all the way to the 19th century, meaning that it is extremely unlikely to be under a copyright of any sort), but also because just because something may be a copyright violation is not a reason to remove that something on the spot. Deletion of something that you don't know is a copyvio but merely suspect there is a chance it might be is copyright paranoia of the worst sort, and it is explicitly advised against by the very same WP:LYRICS that you cited as basis for removal. The bottom line—if you can't 100% tell if something is a copyvio, it's best to leave that something alone (although, of course, it may qualify for removal under some other policy/guideline).

Regarding the point about the possibility of the translation being original research, I respectfully disagree. We are encouraging translation of articles from Wikipedias in different languages, so that practice is not at all unheard of. Also, as you yourself pointed out that using a sourced professional translation may be a copyvio in itself, the only way to provide that translation would be by someone who agrees to license it under GFDL. Such translation may not be verifiable by common means, but it is most certaily possible to run it by a few native speakers to make sure it contains no major blunders. Note also that WP:OR makes no mention of translations being "original research"; this is for a good reason, too (if the original is verifiable, so is the translation; you just need to know the language).

Finally, regarding the point about the article not putting the lyrics within an analytical framework and thus failing the main requirement of WP:LYRICS, that one I can give to you—the article in its present state does indeed not meet that requirement. I wish I could fix that, but, unfortunately, songs and poetry are not the topics I am terribly knowledgeable about. Coming from the Russian background, however, I can sincerely ascertain that such analysis is entirely possible. This song is not some obscure piece only hard-core experts know about; it is one of the more recognizable, distinctly Russian songs; one of those jems that shape the Russian culture as a whole. Just because the article fails to convey that (and many other things) and focuses mainly on the unfortunate fact that the song was used in Tetris and from there on took roots in Western pop-culture does not mean there is nothing else to write about. Once again, I wish I could expand this article properly, but I can't—my talents lie elsewhere. However, as a person born and raised in Russia I can assure you that the lyrics do belong here just as much as the lyrics belong in Yankee Doodle—foreigners may not know that song very well, but it does not make it any less significant.

I hope I was able to convince you. If not, please let me know which parts you disagree with, I'll happily continue this conversation. Best,—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 03:54, February 12, 2009 (UTC)

I do now agree with you about the translation not counting as OR, as that is encouraged, but I am still concerned about the copyright of the translation itself. They were added on 27 Nov 06 by a single-edit account and subsequently modified slightly. This translation is exact, down to the punctuation, of one found on a University of Pittsburgh page from 2000, which is highly suspicious to me. If you'd like, I can bring this up at Wikipedia:Copyright problems.

But beyond that, I really don't think the lyrics belong here without critical commentary, and then only in excerpt (unless, of course, the entire song is commented upon). WP:NOT says "Source texts generally belong on WikiSource. Excerpts of lyrics may be used within an article for the purpose of direct commentary upon them". You mentioned Yankee Doodle, which is think is a good example of lyrics + critical commentary (for the most part), although I feel that policy suggests we move the full text of the song itself to Wikisource.

I really wish that I'd been able to explain this much above, but I was at work and didn't have much time. Sorry about that. Let me know what you think. (That goes for anyone, not just Ezhiki. I don't mean to be exclusionary here.) Wyatt Riot (talk) 13:17, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Wyatt, thanks for pointing out that this translation can be found elsewhere. I was operating under the impression that the possibility of a copyvio was merely your assumption, but since it is indeed published elsewhere almost word-to-word, it can very well be grounds for removal (and if you want to solicit an additional opinion at WP:CV, that's fine by me). I guess I could translate the song myself, but I, too, would like to first hear another opinion regarding the relations of the lyrics in this article to WP:LYRICS, although I would like to point out that WP:LYRICS is merely a style guideline, not a policy, so I believe that in this particular case (a well-known song, important part of the overall culture it came from, etc.) an exception should be in order. It, of course, wouldn't also hurt if someone capable of adding an analysis would do just that. I'll post a note on WT:RUSSIA; hopefully someone will show up. Cheers,—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 15:29, February 12, 2009 (UTC)

As a famous and culturally important song, it makes sense to have the lyrics. Due to it being a culturally important song, there will likely be info out there which "analyses" the lyrics, importance, etc, but they just aren't on the article as yet. As far as I can see, the only issue is possibly copyvio of the translation, and that is easily fixed by us doing this ourselves. WP:LYRICS is but a guideline, and I can't see anything there which would exclude the lyrics from this article, as it seems to be more concerned with works still covered by copyright. --Russavia ^Dialogue 15:54, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

I really wish I hadn't mentioned WP:Lyrics in my edit summary, because it was based mostly on my (faulty) recollection of that guideline and a cursory look at the page itself. Right now, I'm mostly concerned with the possible Copyvio of the translation (which I'll bring to Wikipedia:Copyright problems when I get the time), and the fact that WP:NOT#LYRICS suggests we not include full lyrics, only excerpts for critical commentary. Even though the original Russian lyrics are in the public domain, Wikipedia really isn't the place for them. That's why we have other projects, such as Wikisource. Of course, that's just my $0.02, but one that (I feel) is supported by WP:NOT. Ideally, I think the best option would be to add commentary on excerpts of the lyrics and transwiki the full lyrics to Wikisource. Ideas? Wyatt Riot (talk) 21:35, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

The way I am reading the Lyrics clause WP:NOT, the main concern there is that the article should not consist solely of the lyrics. This article most certainly does not, the lyrics are fairly short as to not overload the article, and, as pointed out above, a person knowledgeable about the subject should have no trouble writing an analytical piece. I really wish somebody other than you, me, and Russavia also provided an opinion, but after having waited several days I don't see it happening. How about we replace the translation with one of our own for now, and re-visit this situation later when/if someone else takes an issue with it? After all, the presence of the public domain lyrics cannot be of much harm if no one else complains about it, don't you think? :) Another option, of course, is to file an RfC.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 15:40, February 16, 2009 (UTC)

A retranslation would be great. (I wish I could help out on that, but my knowledge of Russian is approximately nil.) I'll concede the point on WP:NOT#LYRICS unless or until other editors who share my concerns pipe up. It may just be that I'm coming out of left field here, so an RfC should definitely wait until then. Cheers! Wyatt Riot (talk) 19:16, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Agreed then. I have replaced the translation with one of my own. Since this is the very first time I ever translated any poetry, I'd appreciate someone else to look it over and make corrections, to make it more "poetic", if necessary. Other than that, hope it works! Thanks, Wyatt, Russavia, for your insight and comments.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 19:41, February 16, 2009 (UTC)

I admittedly have not read the entirety of the preceding discussion on the lyrics, but I don't think this pertains to that discussion. I listened to the song and noticed that some lyrics did not seem to correspond to what was sung, so I checked the source of the lyrics and saw that the two don't even correspond. Why is it that the source is not precisely quoted? Can I assume this is a mistake? 24.213.110.70 (talk) 01:57, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

• Anyway, what's with moving the lyrics to Wikisource? --illythr (talk) 23:54, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

Plural formation

The Russian word gaving name to this article's subject transliterates to English as korobeinik. It's a common, well-known transliteration; there are few, if any, alternatives going around.

According to the standard plural formation rules of the English language, the plural of korobeinik is korobeiniks. I fixed the oversight by the original writer, thinking it would be obvious. Yet, somebody keeps changing the article to be grammatically wrong. Why? Διγουρεν_{Εμπρος!} 23:20, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

If someone lacks knowledge of the Russian language, this is not my business. FYI, It's a norm to translitarate Russian words which are usually used in plural without -s in the end in English. See, e.g., Valenki, Pelmeni, etc. Beatle Fab Four (talk) 00:26, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

The article isn't about korobeiniks. It's about a song titled "Korobeiniki". It's referred to by that title even by English speakers. 91.105.62.77 (talk) 22:08, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Press

The accompanying article was implicitly cited on the NPR show Wait Wait… Don't Tell Me! today (i think not a rebroadcast, since Susan Boyle is mentioned). The question was about the lyrics of the Tetris music. (The contestant was apparently thrown off by "oy" -- as was i: it sounded too Yiddish to me; as i think Yiddish speakers are likely to say, "Who knew?") The first two lines of the last stanza of the translation were quoted as choice A of the multiple-choice question, and the question-poser said "We got it from Wikipedia, so it must be true." [smile]
--Jerzy•t 16:14, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Transliterations

Is korobelniki (with an 'ell') a valid transliteration or is it a common misspelling? Korobelniki currently redirects to this page but the alternative spelling is not mentioned in the article. jonls | T | C 22:59, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

No, it is not a valid transliteration. But, since "i" and "l" look similar, it's probably a common enough typo to warrant a redirect. Cheers,—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 14:58, December 15, 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. I agree, the redirect should stay as the misspelling is very common. I suspect it to have appeared on an official album and spread from there. Last.fm, amazon and similar sites lists the song title with an 'ell'. Perhaps it should be mentioned that it is incorrect? jonls | T | C 22:49, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

If it's indeed that common, then perhaps. If you feel like adding this, please do (but please also source it to an example). Thanks.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 14:05, December 18, 2009 (UTC)

so a better translitrion is reverted cuz "its against the rules"?! F U u fashits wikipigs —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.182.200.121 (talk) 16:31, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

I see in many places that there are transliterations of "ого as ogo", which is not correct. These, typically, should be transliterated as "ovo" if the idea is to give a non-native speaker an idea of how to pronounce them. 173.227.72.99 (talk) 13:24, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

Pronunciation is conveyed using transcription, not transliteration. Russian "молодецкого" is transliterated molodetskogo. "Molodetskovo" is neither a correct transliteration (because that's not how the word is written) nor a correct transcription (because the word is actually pronounced closer to "maladetskava"). If someone has an inclination to add another section with transcription (preferably using the IPA), I doubt anyone would have any objections, but mangling selected letters/sounds in selected words in transliteration is neither here nor there.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); September 30, 2013; 14:03 (UTC)

If it is not a transliteration, why is it labeled as such? 129.115.3.10 (talk) 14:56, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

It is labeled as such because it is transliteration. What it is not is transcription.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); September 30, 2013; 15:07 (UTC)

Ah, clear. Proceed.173.227.72.99 (talk) 03:30, 1 October 2013 (UTC)

Not the same as Tetris + Sheet Music

This may not be readily apparent to most people but Korobeiniki and Tetris's Song A are not quite the same melody . They are very, very close and have many notes in common. Tetris is clearly based on it, but there are differences. The most important is the first few notes, which I will try to explain in lay terms. Korobeiniki ascends from a low note to a high in the first three, while Tetris starts on a high->low->mid. For example, one arrangement I have of Korobeiniki is E, G#, B and goes dotted quarter, eighth, dotted quarter. Whereas Tetris in most arrangements goes E, B, C; quarter, eighth, eighth.

Based on this, the sheet music posted as a picture on this article appears to be bogus. The file is titled "Lyrics of "Korobeiniki" (AKA Tetris "Type A")" and attributed to Nikolay Nekrasov. This picture does not contain "lyrics" and clearly is not the work of Nekrasov, who wrote the poem; he did not compose the melody. The melody depicted is also that of Tetris, not Korobeiniki. I can transcribe the actual melody to Korobeiniki if requested, but I am only moderately experienced in using composition software.Legitimus (talk) 15:12, 22 January 2015 (UTC)

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Ranger

The meaning of forest ranger in this context should be clarified. Benjamin (talk) 01:11, 23 July 2017 (UTC)

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