Talk:L. Patrick Gray/Archive 1

Sourcing

Poorly sourced. It is obvious that this article incorporates material from Woodward's memoir of his dealings with Felt, "The Secret Man," but not only is this material uncredited, there are no internal sources whatsoever in the article. The first source cited is the FBI's biography of Gray, but that source is very thin. This article needs expansion and source credit. 72.150.173.91 (talk) 03:30, 4 February 2008 (UTC)Black Max

Agreed, I'm holding off on working on this page until his autobiography comes out in March. Would welcome your assistance in finding some of these sources, however... (Morethan3words (talk) 08:24, 12 February 2008 (UTC))

Added sources now that above book is out. Graybooks (talk) 16:27, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Added more info from the book, hopefully that will help the GAN (Morethan3words (talk) 10:12, 21 June 2008 (UTC))

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:L. Patrick Gray/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Please convert the references to inline citations per WP:FN. Gary King (talk) 02:06, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Done. (Morethan3words (talk) 12:23, 30 June 2008 (UTC))

A few more:

• The order of the last few sections should be: References, Further reading, External links, per WP:LAYOUT
• The links in "External links" each use a different format from the others. Please unify them; I suggest a simple "Article Name at Publication" format.
• Remove the bold formatting in the first reference.
• Include an accessdate for the second reference.
• All references must go after any punctuation marks, per WP:FN

Gary King (talk) 21:14, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Done, again. For the access dates, I was not the one who accessed them originally, so I just double-checked the links to make sure they work and that the information there was correct, and then gave them an access date of today. Not technically correct for the referrence purposes, but I think it's safe to assume that the Vanity Fair article has not changed since it was originally accessed.

Anything else? (Morethan3words (talk) 17:18, 2 July 2008 (UTC))

Every time the book is used as a reference, a page number must be given. WP:CITE#HOW shows you how to do that, if you need to know. Gary King (talk) 17:25, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Sigh, this is the part I was terrible at in highschool... (Morethan3words (talk) 17:50, 2 July 2008 (UTC))

Okay, so, I added the page number for the first citation, but I can't for the third one because I don't have the book, maybe someone can help with that? (Morethan3words (talk) 18:32, 2 July 2008 (UTC))

Hi, has there been any update on this? Gary King (talk) 05:34, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, but because the book references do not have page numbers and there has been no response in over a week, I am failing this article for GAN. Gary King (talk) 08:34, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Re-Nominating L. Patrick Gray for GAN

Found the missing page number in the history of the page, I apologize for not finding this sooner. In the future, and as suggested in WP:GAN under Step 1 of how to fail a GAN, I would encourage you to be bold on small issues like this before proceeding with failing.

If there's anything this article needs please feel free to let us know. Thanks (Morethan3words (talk) 11:07, 14 July 2008 (UTC))

Usually I make bold edits, but in this case, I don't have access to the book. Gary King (talk) 17:25, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Hm I just noticed how the book is referenced. It cannot be a huge range like 304 pages... every time the book is referenced, a separate page number needs to be used. Gary King (talk) 17:35, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Neither do I, I found the page number in the history of the article, actually it was in the version you originally reviewed, back when everything was still in Harvard style.

In any case, do you know of a page that uses the citation style you are trying to achieve? I've looked at WP:CITE as you suggested but am having trouble following it, to be honest. I really not very good at this kind of thing...(Morethan3words (talk) 07:13, 15 July 2008 (UTC))

{{harvnb}} will help with this. Use {{citation}} for the book citations to work with the harvnb template. Gary King (talk) 07:41, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Okay, sorry for the delay, and after some wrangling, I think I've got the citations in good shape. How do they look to you now Gary? (Morethan3words (talk) 06:39, 23 July 2008 (UTC))

They look good; however, the links don't work. Once they work, then feel free to renominate the article. I will not necessarily be the one to review this article again, however. Gary King (talk) 07:06, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

The article already is renominated, as best I can tell. And I know the links don't work, but I can't figure out why, any ideas? (Morethan3words (talk) 07:56, 23 July 2008 (UTC))

To renominate, please substitute the {{GAN}} template again on the talk page instead of editing the first template. I also fixed the links. Gary King (talk) 08:10, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for fixing the links, I see what I did wrong now, and I've globalized the changes. Anyway, I've gone ahead with the renomination and reclassified the page under World History, since Politics and government instructed that if the individual was dead or no longer an office holder, it should go under History. I also plugged it in the relevant Biography Project pages, so hopefully we can drum up some more interest. Thanks for your help, Gary and I still welcome any of your comments. (Morethan3words (talk) 03:29, 25 July 2008 (UTC))

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:L. Patrick Gray/GA2. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Hi. I'm going to review this GA nom! Intothewoods29 (talk) 20:35, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Well, I'm going to put this article On Hold for several reasons:

• Is it really that relevant to L. Patrick Gray's biography to include a thing on Deep Throat in the lead? Consider putting something more relevant in as the third lead paragraph.

This seems to have ben moved. However, please note that I'll be editing the introductory paragraph some more in the next couple days. (Morethan3words (talk) 18:33, 7 August 2008 (UTC))

• In Early Career, it says he attended Rice University for four years, but later you say he dropped out his senior year, making it 3 years?

I've removed any reference to how many years he actually atended Rice, I guess a truly accurate number would be somewhere in between 3 and 4, but since it's not really relevant, I've just deleted it. (Morethan3words (talk) 18:33, 7 August 2008 (UTC))

• In Early Career, you name all these courts tthat he was admitted to; was it all at the same time, or separate times? if the latter, specify that it was one after the other, etc.

I've added a citation for this information, which is the oficial FBI biography of Gray. As it is now, the sentence reads pretty much exactly how this Bio provides it, and I can't find any publication that provides more detail than what we have already. Therefore, I think all we can really do is leave it more or less as is at this point, any suggestions would be welcome. (Morethan3words (talk) 18:33, 7 August 2008 (UTC))

• The second picture (the helicopter) in the Watergate box doesn't seem to have a tag except for a red tag... go check that out.

I've changed the tag for this to indicate it is PD as the photographer was the White House staff photographer at the time and therefore the photo is a work of the US Government, i.e., part of the PD. (Morethan3words (talk) 18:33, 7 August 2008 (UTC))

• The paragraph beginning "After Felt admitted in the May, 2005 ..." should be moved down in the article so that the Watergate section is roughly in chronological order.

I was thinking about this and looking at the article again, and I think I want to do a bit more of a major re-organization. His autobiography goes pretty in depth not just in the Watergate investigation, but also some of the other stuff he was doing in the FBI, and I think the article should reflect that a bit more, so I'll be making some major changes to this part of the article over the weekend. Therefore, I would appreciate if you could come back sometime next week and re-review it in light of these changes, which I hope will also address your concerns here, and I'll try to keep things in chronological order to the extent possible. (Morethan3words (talk) 18:33, 7 August 2008 (UTC))

• BIGGEST PROBLEM: This is a biography of Gray, and you don't include anything about his family! You briefly mention his parent and his son, but nothing else! If it was an article about Gray's career, then it might be okay, but as it is, it won't pass unless you add much more.

Good point, I think his autobiography talks about how he met and married his wife, his kids, etc., so I'll add some of this in over the weekend. Oh yeah, and one of those obits must talk about his survivors. Anyway, I'll look into it over the weekend. (Morethan3words (talk) 18:33, 7 August 2008 (UTC))

Good luck! Tell me when you want me to look it over again. If nothing substantial happens in a while, I'm going to delist this from WP:GAC. Intothewoods29 (talk) 21:04, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

I find it troublesome that 16 of the 18 references come from a single source. Shouldn't the article have a more well rounded perspective? Furthermore, a good portion of the article is more concerned with Felt rather than Gray. Double Fanucci (talk) 01:29, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Well, for one, the 16 references are his autobiography, which is about as authoritative as you can get when writing about someone's life. Although, I see what you're saying, and I think there are some cited statements that are provided in more than one location, so I can move the citations around to try and even it out a little bit. But please recognize that there is an awful lot of information about this guy that is only available in his autobiography, such as nearly all of the early career section and the entire section on his documents. (Morethan3words (talk) 18:33, 7 August 2008 (UTC))

Ug, I apologize, but this weekend turned into a mad house for me and I barely even had time to check my e-mail. Please continue the HOLD for a little longer as I will try to find time to work on this later today. (Morethan3words (talk) 04:38, 11 August 2008 (UTC))

Okay, as you can see, I've made some pretty substantial additions, including a section on his family, as well as a bit of a re-organization and filling out of his FBI years. I would like some input from you guys, I want to add a section talking about some of the work he did during the FBI that is non-Watergate related, such as admitting women as special agents for the first time, increasing the number of minority special agents, the Wounded Knee incident, al Fatah, etc. any ideas where a good place to plug that in would be? Any other suggestions are welcome. (Morethan3words (talk) 21:17, 11 August 2008 (UTC))