Talk:Lake Naroch offensive

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Improved[edit]

The article erroneously stated that according to Russian sources the scale of Russian casualties incurred in the assault was about 150,000, which is in contradiction with facts, the analysis conducted by N. Podorozhniy (Нарочская операция в марте 1916 г., М., 1938, p. 126; it estimated the number of casualties to be at 76,409) and even with the book it referred to (Оськин М. В., Брусиловский прорыв, М., 2010, p. 7; the number is estimated at approximately 80,000). I’ve cleaned this up and changed the numbers to those taken from the sources. Also, I have deleted the mention “of the use of a widely known Russian method of war - human wave” due to the fact that the human wave attack is apparently not a traditional Russian infantry tactic and was applied by the Germans in the First Battle of Ypres, the French during the Nivelle Offensive, the British in the Battle of the Somme, etc. Eriba-Marduk (talk) 18:00, 3 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Do we really have any evidence that Lake Naroch was launched "to take the pressure off Verdun" as the article currently claims? The Allies (UK, France, Italy & Russia) were committed to simultaneous offensives in the summer of 1916. Verdun kicked off at the end of February (which makes it unlikely that the Russians could have organised an offensive on the hoof so quickly), and there is no evidence that the French were asking the British for help until about May, when they finally realised they were in serious trouble, reserves being consumed, "Verdun sera prise" by early July, so the Somme kickoff was brought forward from mid-August. That's human nature for you - when a fire breaks out the panic and screaming doesn't start until it's too late. Before that, to British consternation, the French were talking of diverting resources to Salonika - which Britain had wanted abandoned and everybody had agreed should be wound down - and the British politicians were worried that the Russians would launch their offensive prematurely and require antics in the Balkans to help them when they got into trouble.

The main Russian offensive was supposed to be against the Germans (Brusilov v A-H was not supposed to be the main offensive). Not sure if Lake Naroch was supposed to be the main offensive, or was brought forward because of Verdun (possible but seems unlikely to me).

John Keegan does claim that Lake Naroch was launched to distract attention from Verdun, but doesn't go into it very deeply in a general history of the war, or it may just have been his reasonable but mistaken supposition - I have to say I'm dubious for the reasons listed above, but we have to go with what the books say. Norman Stone in his more detailed book on the Eastern Front doesn't mention it at all.Paulturtle (talk) 08:57, 6 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Have checked in Doughty "Pyrrhic Victory" - one of the few decent books in English on WW1 from the French POV - and it confirms Joffre asked for Lake Narotch because of Verdun - I'm a bit surprised, but that settles it. Keegan is right.Paulturtle (talk) 21:24, 10 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]