Talk:Land of Fire/Archive 1

This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Canon vs. Non-canon

I think that there needs to be a better way of recognizing manga and anime articles vs. just Anime articles since Anime has a lot of non-canon material.

Can someone add "The Valley of the End"?

I think someone should add the valley of the end because its a very important place. After all, we know that Sasuke and Naruto fought each other there and that the 1st and someone else fought there too. It belongs in the geography of Konoha. The valley of the end is even in most of the Naruto video games. I think that if spin-offs and non-canonical articles belong here, then so should canical, important places. If someone just began the article for me, I would gladly edit it to my best extent. I just dont know how to start an article. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Crazyhua88 (talk • contribs) 21:03, 25 April 2007 (UTC).

Title

The article needs to have some indication what the title refers to, what the subject is, what the subject is part of, and what the subject relates to. Personally, I have no idea, though it seems that it may somehow be part of, or related to, "Naruto". Bobby P. Smith Sr. Jr. 04:34, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Konohagakure no Sato (Hidden Leaf Village)

The romaji translation seems to be wrong here. Now, the Kanji is correct (I confirmed it on the official Naruto site). However, in every Kanji dictionary I've looked through, 隠れ is never pronounced "gakure". Rather, it is pronounced as "kakure". I think it should be changed. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.142.99.188 (talk • contribs) 00:10, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Update: Ok, SpionKOp makes a pretty strong point. I didn't know about the rule he mentioned, but it makes sense now. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.142.99.188 (talk • contribs) 00:02, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

First off, it's romaji. Sorry, common trivial mistakes make me uncomfortable. Anyway, not only do they very clearly call it "Konohagakure" in the show, but in Japanese, letters often gain ten-ten (the two lines) when put after another word to make a compound word. Konoha + kakure --> kakure becomes gakure. I kinda don't sound like I know what I'm talking about, so...consider 女神, which would normally be mekami, but is actually read as megami. SpionKop 03:45, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

The あん on the gate is the ahh in "say ahh." It's to show the gate is wide open.

Fourth Hokage's age

It's not certain what to correct the Fourth's possible age to, but in the trivia section his age is guessed at around 24 at the start of the manga. How can this be possible when he was the sensei of Kakashi, who was 26 at the start? (If the Fourth really would have been 24 at the start of the manga this would make him 12 when he sealed the Kyuubi...unlikely) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.90.60.231 (talk • contribs) 18:08, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Dead folks don't age. If he was 24 when he sealed Kyuubi he'd still be 24, being sorta dead. Anime and Manga it's hard to judge age, but he's in his mid 20s atleast every time he's seen. I doubt he was older than that. Eban 00:23, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Actually, if the theory of Yodaime being 24 at the start, it would make sense. Kakashi being 26 in the beginning, and Naruto at 12, that would make it a 14yr difference between them. Meaning, Kakashi was 14 when Naruto was born, most likely around the time when Kyuubi was sealed also, let's make it so Naruto is a year older. Now it's Kakashi being 15 when Naruto got Kyuubi when he was a child. Also remember that Kakashi was 13 when he was promoted to Jounin with Yodaime still being his sensei. That being said, add two years to Yodaime's presumed age, and that would be 26. I didn't get what the question was at first, but I'd think that they were saying it was 24 when he was either introduced in 'Kakashi Gaiden' or when he died. Seems reasonable. I hope I made sense. =3 --LM22102 00:59, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

that sounds reasonable 2 me.--71.199.154.43 23:27, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Tonton

In the tonton, the oink thing... Byui is the japanese sound for "oink" —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.7.113.219 (talk • contribs) 02:32, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Who really cares?

Fourth Hokage (moved from redirect talk)

Ok, why is Sarutobi the third hokage while Tsunade is the fifth? As I recall, Tsunade became hokage after Sarutobi. If anyone more skilled in Naruto lore could clear this mess up, that'd be great. - 213.184.215.12

You shouldn't change the redirect for the Fourth Hokage to the Third Hokage. They are completely different people. In the very first scene of the first episode of Naruto the Fourth Hokage is shown. He defeats the nine-tailed fox by sealing it into Naruto, and dieing in the process. Afterwards, the Third Hokage comes out of retirement and takes over Hokage duties once again, rather than name a Fifth. Only after the Third's death does Tsunade become the next Hokage, and thus the Fifth. -- Pedantic79^(talk) 07:01, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

This redirect won't work correctly until Bugzilla:218 is fixed. -- Pedantic79^(talk) 08:14, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Akamaru

Akamaru is a Shih Tzu. Why doesn't it say so?

Becasue he isn't. Who ever said that Akamaru is a Shih Tzu? Have you seen the how Akamaru currently looks in the manga? Akamaru has grown so much that Kiba can even ride him. --64.14.194.26 23:27, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Okay, a few questions...

a) where the heck did you get that he's a shih tzu...!? b) He looks NOTHING like a shih tzu c) Shih tzu do NOT grow that big d)... are shih tzu even capable of becoming nin dogs? -(R.I.P. Deidy-kun (although I know you won't 'cause you didn't kill Sasuke... (Deidara: -.- thanks a lot...) 01:03, 23 July 2007 (UTC))

4th hokage name

Is it me or did the newest chaper of Naurto (321) said that kakashi teacher was yondaime hokage? -ScotchMB 19:31, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

"Yondaime" means "Fourth". It isn't a name. ~Snapper T o 19:39, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

i see.. thank you -ScotchMB 21:58, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

4th Hokage and Kakashi

Was it really stated in the manga or anime that the fourth taught Kakashi the Rasengan? What if Kakashi just learned using it through his Sharingan? This is plain speculation should not included unless mentioned in the series. --64.14.194.26 23:37, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

You're right; Kakashi said he copied it, so I took that line out of the Fourth's section. ~Snapper T o 23:47, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

When does he say he copied it? Also, it's fairly clear such a move can't be learned like that. – Someguy0830 (Talk | contribs) 00:21, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

For me, it's page 9 of chapter 321, but because I delete the title page of chapters, it's probably actually page 10. Anyway, Kakashi's dialogue for that page is as follows, with all grammar problems present, as well as my attempt at correct punctuation:

"That's right, even the 4th couldn't do it. The 4th took "form manipulation" to the highest possible level. It's just a extremely difficult to learn A rank "form manipulation". I can copy it up to this point but the problem is from here on in. With the Rasengan, the 4th created it with the intention of adding his own "nature manipulated" chakra."

When I think about it, it doesn't make sense that Kakashi could copy it, so maybe the scanlation I'm using is wrong. ~Snapper T o 00:39, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

The scantalation I have says he could only get to "this level". Since he refers to the Fourth as his master, it's only reasonable to assume he learned it from him. – Someguy0830 (Talk | contribs) 00:49, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

I believe it can be observed and copied using the Sharingan. Remember how Naruto resolved the firt step to use the Rasengan, he was just observing a cat. Also, even if the 4th was Kakashi's sensei, it wouldn't mean that the 4th is required to teach him or any of his subordinates all his techniques. For instance, why did Kakashi chose to teach only Sasuke the Chidori? Why didn't he teach Sakura and Naruto the same technique or at least help them develop something close to it? --64.14.194.26 01:05, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Naruto being able to finish the first step of Rasengan training by observing a cat and Kakashi simply copying Rasengan with his Sharingan eye are two different things. Also, Kakashi taught Chidori to Sasuke because Sasuke had his own Sharingan, which seems necessary for Chidori to be truly effective. Anyway, someone can re-add that line if they want to; I'll wait until I can find a more reliable scanlation before I start declaring Rasengan copyable again. ~Snapper T o 01:17, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

I understand your point, Naruto being able to finish the first step of Rasengan training by observing a cat and Kakashi simply copying Rasengan with his Sharingan are not exactly the same thing but can be compared. Naruto doesn't have the Sharingan to have great visual clarity of how the technique works but instead got an idea from observing a cat playing with a water balloon, meawhile, Kakashi with the sharingan and seeing first-hand the Rasengan performed by the 4th during missions would generate enough information for him to know how it works. The only requisite to copy a technique using the Sharingan is that it's user's body needs to have a certain level of skill to perform the technique. Rasengan needed extreme chakra contorl which Kakashi should have. Also read my question again: Why didn't he teach Sakura and Naruto the same technique (Chidori) or at least help them develop something close to it? My point is, he only wanted to teach Sasuke and only Sasuke something new. Sorry, I wasn't logged in earlier. --Beef noodles 01:44, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Copying implies the ability to exactly duplicate a technique instantly. Such precise manipulation takes practice. The fact that Sasuke needed training to perform the Chidori is proof it can't copy such things. – Someguy0830 (Talk | contribs) 02:08, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

How did you know? Have you tried performing the technique yourself? Remember Sasuke copied the first part of the Rock Lee's Front Lotus? Rock Lee said it took him years of training to attain that level of speed but Sasuke was able to perform (though it greatly strained him) the first part of the technique just after seeing it once. --Beef noodles 02:33, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Stupid assertions aside, does the whole "took three years to develop" not register? Obviously, it's difficult to do. Also, taijutsu is different from chakra manipulation. – Someguy0830 (Talk | contribs) 02:41, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Well, I know somebody mastered it in a week without a Sharingan. The point is, if you're body has the resources, and you know how it's done = technique performed. But the Sharingan user may not be ready to take the strain or damage to the body that the technique might come with thus the need of practice. Really, this will be my last log on this topic. All I really wanted to be answered from the beginning is why should something not yet proven be on a wikipage? --Beef noodles 02:59, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

"Somebody" did not "master" it in a week. Naruto still doesn't have it mastered. He can do the form manipulation perfectly on his own, but he needs a clone to amp up the power, and now another one to add the elemental attribute. The power of Sharingan is that it is able to copy and analyze the movements of others. So, a person able to finely control his chakra, like Kakashi, is able to copy the level of jutsu that Rasengan is, but some one like Sasuke can't. Because Sasuke doesn't have the same external help that Naruto does, he can't do it. But, because he does have genius talent, he can do the elemental manipulation needed for Chidori and learn the speed needed to use it effectively from Kakashi or Rock Lee or whom ever.

And about "why not teach Sasuke both/ rasengan" argument. The moves are meant for different types of attacks. Chidori was taught to Sasuke specificly to deal with Gaara and his obscene defenses. Kakashi knew what was needed to win the fight, and he taught it to his pupil. Adding another move that would be HUGELY draining on his chakra reserves would just be foolish. --Xeago 3:13 27 Novemeber 2006

So I finally got a better scanlation, and Kakashi basically says the say thing as in my previous version, yet it's slightly more detailed:

"That's right... even for the Fourth Hokage the task proved too difficult. The Fourth Hokage produced a form of "spatial recomposition" of the highest possible level... that being the jutsu "Rasengan". Just regular "spacial recomposition" has an "A Rank" acquisition difficulty level. At just that level I can somehow manage to copy it but that's where the problems start. Rasengan was originally a jutsu that the Fourth Hokage had developed with the intention of combining his "elemental recomposition" skills with."

So, um, unless someone wants to chime in or debate this translation, I guess that's that. ~Snapper T o 23:49, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Okay, whoever said that chidori was taught to Sasuke only because he needed the sharingan is missing something very important. Kakashi created Raikiri and Chidori before he had the sharingan. The reason he didn't teach it to Naruto or Sakura is because Sakura didn't have enough chakra and he didn't like Naruto and favored Sasuke or at least thats how I see it. Also, i don't believe that Kakashi has the rasengan fully mastered, he says he can only copy it that far, but doesn't specify what "that far" is, he could have gotten to stage 2 in the training for it when the fourth died.Punker9000 19:12, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

No Kakashi didnt teach Naruto or Sakura because they dont have sharingan and without the sharingan the chidori is an unfinished move Rocks Lotus 07:23, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

When one uses Chidori they are moving so fast it creates a tunnel vision effect, making it easy for an opponent to dodge it and counter. That is why the sharingan is needed, it tracks movements at high speeds. Its true that Kakashi created Chidori before he had his Sharingan, but was unable to use it effectively. After he got his Sharingan he could now use the technique properly. The same goes for Sasuke, he had the Sharingan and the skill to actually learn and use the technique.

he tried to teach naruto to use chidori but he couldnt because lightning isn't his element sasuke was pnly able to use it because he was able to coy it from kakashi but he needed to train to be able to control it DUH

An English teacher is crying out there. Anyway, if you want to discuss something, and not only on Wikipedia, but anywhere, please do it in a non offensive manner. Anyway, im pretty sure that Chidori isn't element specific. Sure it is electric, but this is in essence just normal chakra taking on the properties of electicity. Just as with fire style jutsu, the chakra takes on the properties of fire. I mean, if every jutsu is element specific, why is Sasuke able to use fire jutsu if its not his element? Read the section for Chidori in the List of ninjutsu in Naruto page. Also, from what you said, it sounds like Kakashi has tried to teach Naruto do do Chidori. I don't think that has ever happened.

Read the manga. One Thousand Birds specifically requires lightning-natured chakra manipulation. Sasuke is able to use both as ninjas are able to use more than one element through specific training. Sephiroth BCR (Converse) 15:39, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Its all rather simple Really, You see, it said that Sharingan can't copy Kekki Genkai. That means the nature part. Not the shape part, which the sharingan, in fact, COULD copy. Also, the Chidori is Lightning Nature Manipulation, so therefore, it can't simply be copied by a Sharingan. But Rasengan is only shape. SO it CAN!---Chipmonk328

Map

By any chance, does anyone know where this (copy and paste link to view) image is from? It's far too detailed to be fan art, but I haven't been able to figure out where it's from assuming it is official. I ask because I think it would be more useful than the current picture of Konohagakure, but I don't want to upload it and put it in the article until I know it's legitimate. So, any help would be appreciated. ~Snapper T o 03:50, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Damn, that's impressive. However, I couldn't tell you where it's from. My gut thinks fan art, but my logic says that's impossible. It's an enigma, it is. – Someguy0830 (Talk | contribs) 03:59, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Darn direct link disabling. It's too seemingly accurate and Kishimoto-like to be fan art. My only guess is that it was some kind of promotional thing such as a magazine insert. Maybe someone will be able to verify its origins in the future. In the meantime, it makes for a nice desktop background on lower screen resolutions. ~Snapper T o 20:26, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

A section of the url reads "[...].nu/fanart/3691[...]". Is that the original page it was found on? You Can't See Me! 04:58, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

That particular version of the image is from a German website, so I don't know what they're saying. Most of the images listed are "fanart", yes, but the fanart is really just images from the manga and anime cropped together in some loosely interesting manner. I only referred to that website's version because it was the largest copy I could find on Google. ~Snapper T o 23:41, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Isn't the base of the image derived from the anime/manga? I seem to remember them showing a map at one point. --Marhawkman 06:27, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

There's a mega-super bird's-eye-view of the village at the start of chapter 115. Maybe that's what you mean? ~Snapper T o 06:32, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

I think it was during the Chunin arc. They did a short discussion about the various villages. --Marhawkman 21:58, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Concerning the Fourth Hokage

Yes, we are all aware of the many theories surrounding him. There's the "Naruto's Father" theory, the "Akatsuki Leader" theory, and the "Arashi Uzumaki" theory, and probably more that I've missed. However, Wikipedia is not the place for these theories. So if you're reading this while thinking up the best way to word "Yondaime Hokage's name is Arashi Uzumaki and he is Naruto's dad and the Akatsuki Leader," make it easy for all of us, yourself included, and don't put that down at all.

I've also added a hidden note at the bottom of the Fourth Hokage's section saying essentially the same thing, for those who aren't reading this message (I had forgotten to sign in).

Trust me, you are not the first person to have come up with this theory, and you will not be the last. If you feel the need to tell people so that you can gloat when the truth is revealed (and I suggest you don't, as, *gasp*, the popular theory might be wrong), do so by word of mouth. Remember, stories of Jesus' teachings were spread through Oral Tradition and were not written down for at least sixty years! Thank you for your cooperation (That means you have to cooperate). You Can't See Me! 03:29, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Isaribi as a Villager

Is it really accurate to call Isaribi a villager, considering she is from Sea Country? Shouldn't she be listed in some other character list somewhere? The Wretched 08:27, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

She was BORN in the Sea country, but moved to Konoha. Thus she is currently an inhabitant of Konoha. --Marhawkman 01:58, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

But she's filler material, it may be best to get rid of the Kaima freak anyways... Power level (Dragon Ball) 14:58, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

NO.... Isaribi is included because she's shown in the anime. It doesn't really matter if she's a filler character or not.--Marhawkman 21:48, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Requested name change to Hidden Leaf Village

Shouldn't the villages "Sunagakure", "Otogakure", "Konohagakure", etc. be titled to simply Hidden Sand Village, Hidden Sound Village, Hidden Leaf Village, etc.? This is because WP:Uses English naming conventions isn't it, even if it's romanized or hepburnized from the manga? Power level (Dragon Ball) 19:49, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

I don't know about that. Are those even actual names or just some sort of title or euphemism?--Marhawkman 19:36, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Those are the actual translations. ___(g)akure no Sato (-隠れの里) means Hidden ___ Village. --Pentasyllabic 19:53, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Well... That's not what I meant. But I suppose it's really a moot point. My question was whether "Otogakure no Sato" was the actual name or something else.--Marhawkman 17:06, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

The Valley of the end

Isn't the Valley of the end where Naruto and Sasuke had there finally battle in the Land of Fire or is it elsewhere? 202.76.132.215 07:03, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Yes it is. It also happens to be the place where the first and second hokages fought (for reasons unknown to me). there are also rumors that this is also where Madara Uchiha and the first hokage fought, but they are completely fan made so don't pin your theories on it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by LeftiesWillRule (talk • contribs) 02:41, August 22, 2007 (UTC).

Akamaru trivia

The following pieces of trivia appear to contradict each other:

"Aka" means "red". Whenever Akamaru eats a soldier pill, his fur turns red.
"Aka" also means "baby". "Maru" is a suffix for Japanese boys' names. So "Akamaru" means "baby boy".

Given how the other Inuzaka dogs are named, it would infer that Akamaru more likely means "red boy," but I don't know how the name is written in Japanese. So maybe the second comment should say "Akamaru can also mean baby boy"? Unless how his name is written actually does mean "baby boy."

The verb "akaramu", which is only two letters different from Akamaru, means "to become red".

The 2 letters difference, is this referring to how both the verb and name are written in Japanese? --BrokenSphere 18:39, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

In the manga,or the english manga at least,during the chunin exam arc Kiba mentions Akamaru's name meaning "red".Shonen Jump Master 02:16, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

The Fourth blood type?

I am not sure what it is SUPPOSED to be, but right now it says Gay, I suspect this of being the work of a vandal, and have deleted it, but could someone add in his actual blood type if known?

Kurama clan

Why is there a section on the Kurama clan and a section on Yakumo Kurama?The Kurama clan section mostly talks about Yakumo,so shouldn't the sections be merged?Shonen Jump Master 02:10, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

A "Village" in name only

The aerial views of Konohagakure in the manga and the anime show it to be too large to really be a village. It is in fact a City. Besides, it has a huge sports arena and is surrounded by a high and thick fortified city wall. Erudil 17:46, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

I wouldn't call it city-sized. It is large, but what exactly are you suggesting we do? Retlor 04:37, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

I would say that we should call it konohagakure (or HLV) because thats what Kishimoto Masashi says and his opinion is more important than yours in this case —The preceding unsigned comment was added by LeftiesWillRule (talk • contribs) 02:44, August 22, 2007 (UTC).

Pronounciation

I can never really pronounce Konohagakure right... Please paste the right pronounciation (i.e. pro-noww-C-A-shun) on my "my talk" page, thanks.

Nobody is going to use pronounciation on some simple word because you cant read, just use your vowels.

true or false

in trivia it says the creator has a cammo is that true this is what it says

In manga chapter 1 of Naruto, an aerial shot of Konohagakure village featured a billboard advertising Masashi Kishimoto, the creator, author, and illustrator of Naruto can be seen on one of the rooftops. 24.176.173.43 04:17, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Since this is related to being true-or-flase, I'm putting here: Can the person who put in Naruto as the sixth hokage please identify him/herself? Let me get one thing straight: Naruto is NOT the sixth hokage. Shippuden only goes so far as when the characters are fifteen, not twenty and there is no series after Shippuden yet. Secondly, there is absolutely NO canon source (or even non-canon source as far as I know) of that states a sixth hokage. Also, the profile format is terrible. Just wanted to get this straight.Will dance for scones 07:39, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

The 4th Hokage and the Summoning Technique

Er, I checked this article's history out of sheer boredom and noticed that the Summoning Technique (Toads) was added to the 4th's list of jutsu repeatedly and was knocked off every single time. Is there any particular reason for this? You Can't See Me! 02:41, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

It's not something he's particularly well known for. You can add it if you really want to. ~Snapper T o 03:22, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Link to Tierra del Fuego

There has to be a link to the geographical region Tierra del Fuego (= Land of Fire) in South America. I was searching for it and came here. -- Avg 19:16, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Huh? Maybe your problem was fixed in the two days since your message, but I don't see any problem with the link to Tierra del Fuego. You Can't See Me! 07:48, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Maybe you could have checked the history section before posting? Thanks Snapper2 for the link btw.-- Avg 19:03, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Ah, my bad. Sorry about that. You Can't See Me! 22:27, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Hyuga and Uchiha

I think when mentioning that the Uchiha clan as being the most powerful that it should be noted that characters from the Hyuga clan has made the same claim at least once or twice in the Manga that the Hyuga's were the strongest.

Clans in Konoha

Well, the Uchiha clan article is about 15kb, and the Hyuga clan article is only about 12kb. Do you think it would be better to combine them into one "List of Konoha Clans" article, incorporating all of the other clans from this page and their clansmen from List of Konoha ninja too? You Can't See Me! 04:13, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Whatever the case may be, I've just started a draft. Let's see how this turns out. You Can't See Me! 04:32, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

It'd be simpler if the Hyuga and Uchiha members were just moved to List of Konoha ninja and the clan information was moved here. ~Snapper T o 04:49, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

...Or, we could do that. Good idea! I'll get right on that. You Can't See Me! 04:54, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

I didn't really mean that you should, as not all of the members are given ranks. That kink needs to be worked out first. ~Snapper T o 04:56, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

This is problematic. Making a category solely for Hiashi and Hanabi doesn't work, unless you work clan divisions into the list, which isn't necessary. Any ideas? Sephiroth BCR 05:01, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

I just put them all under villagers. Maybe not the place you'd look, but it works better. ~Snapper T o 05:32, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

That's fine. I was suggesting such a thing to You Can't See Me, but you did it in any case. Sephiroth BCR 05:33, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Good idea, own pages for the clans were always a bit much. I just added the memberlist for Hyuga and Uchiha to prevent search problems with unranked members. ~ Felcis 14:57, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Several members of the Uchiha Clan seem to be missing from the memberlist. Was this done on purpose or simply forgotten? ~ Dade 0:39, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Re-indent. They were considered insignificant and ignored. Sephiroth BCR 22:43, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

About Hiashi...I was under the impression that he was a Jonin, just like his twin brother. Redxiv 06:15, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

His rank is never given. Sephiroth BCR 06:38, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Shouldn't we add The Uchiha Clan and Hyuga Clan different articles they are one of the most important clans in the show. Uchiha23 3:31, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

No. Those articles were a brief introduction and a list of characters. Anything significant that they have is present in the list of clans on this article, or the merged characters in the List of Konoha ninja article. Sephiroth BCR ^(Converse) 19:54, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Hyuuga Hiashi.jpg

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Uchiha Clan

This discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Shouldnt somebody add that the Uchiha clan have a weapons house, and something about the cats and the granny cat and the little girl.

This sounds like WP:NOT#IINFO. At this point, I don't see the significance of the Elder Cat to this article. –Gunslinger47 00:15, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Just for reference people Tobi isnt uchiha madara for the last time. It its obito uchiha. I mean if im wrong then let me take my foot out of my mouth but let me say that its quite weird for someone to say and quote "uchiha madaras power, my power" when theyre referring to themselves. Im pretty sure hes talking about the sharingan. I mean think about it doesnt it sound kinda weird. what if sasuke said that. "sasuke uchihas power, my power" doesnt that sound moronic. Now i know its obito because of the following:

The eye whole that has sharingan in it is the left eye, the right one which he gave to kakashi before his supposed death.
His hair style is the same, he has NARUTOS personality which they openly stated about obito in the anime/manga.
He also has something that looks like metallic leg supports but that MIGHT just be decorative so that might just be me.
Plus if it WAS madara he would be an older gentleman. There might be a way there could be both of them in the same body which is likely but if not then id choose the latter saying that it in my mind (body transfer justu aside) that its uchiha obito.

~Eddie~

P.S- If you guys disagree just tell me what u think im just putting my opinion out there

Read this discussion, specifically the great kawa's post. All of your Obito ideas are speculation, original research, and should not be included in the article. Sephiroth BCR ^(Converse) 03:13, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

I agree with u but it would be nice to see Madara, but it will get very cool when Kakashi and Oobito met again^^

Hyuuga Clan

You Guys Left Out Alot About Hyuga's Body Composition!:

Also, it was revealed that Hyuga Clan members can release Chakra from any Chakra hole on their bodies (as seen in Neji Vs Kidoumaru). Which is the only reason they can use their "Gentle Fist" Fighting Style in the first place. And why it's considered Hyuga Style Secret Technique. Because it can be replicated by things like the Sharigan but it's copy won't attack the bodies inner organs due to the lack of chakra needles at the end of the "8 Trigrams" Attack. Or the lack of chakra released at the end of the "Gentle Fist" Attack.

Put bluntly, this section is almost completely incorrect:

All Hyuga clan members are born with the Byakugan, the inherited kekkei genkai of the clan. The clan revolves around the Byakugan and is separated into two parts, the main house (宗家, Sōke?) and the branch house (分家, Bunke?), a creation that protects the secrets of the Byakugan from outsiders. The main house runs the family while the branch house protects it. The members of the branch house are branded with a cursed seal.

The division between souke and bunke is not binary; the "division" does not serve to protect the byakugan, and this largely misrepresents the relationship between the main house and the branch houses -- note the plural. The Hyuuga practice the traditional Japanese family structure -- the "ie" system -- and souke and bunke are part of that.

We're stating what has already been stated in the source material (anime and manga). They clearly state that the two house arrangement is to protect the Byakugan, as the branch house protects the main house, and the Byakugan of the branch house members can be sealed away using the cursed seal. Whatever significance the two houses have in Japanese family structure is irrelevant in light of what the source material says. In any case, you have not really explained the significance of traditional Japanese family structure and what role the main or branch houses play in it. Sephiroth BCR (Converse) 16:55, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

No, they state in canon that the seals on the members of the bunke are to protect the byakugan. They also state that the members of the souke are charged with protecting the byakugan's secrets and the clan's traditions, while members of the bunke are charged with protecting the members of the souke. As I said above, the division is not binary -- that is, it's not a two-part division. In other words, bunke is not singular unless you're referring to a specific branch house (e.g. "the bunke Neji is from"). They never specify just how many Hyuuga bunke there are, but for an ie as old as the Hyuugas presumably are based on comments in canon, the number is probably considerable.

As for the significance, the following three paragraphs are lightly paraphrased from Understanding Japanese Society, Third Edition, by Joy Hendry:

A Japanese family, or "ie", which literally means "house", was traditionally a continuing unit, something like a "line" in the European aristocracy or the "House of Windsor". The ie, not its members, owned property, and usually had an occupation associated with it. Continuity was viewed as the essential trait of an ie, and members were supposed to maintain the ie's status within the wider community. The continuing entity was viewed as more important than any individual member, and individual members were expected to find their raison d'etre in the maintanance and continuity of the ie.

The affairs of an ie were managed by the head, although he could be displaced by a wider family council. Into each generation, one permanent heir would be chosen, and a spouse would be brought in to share the role of continuing the family line. Other members of that generation could stay in the ie or return to it, but if they married, they were expected to move out. The system that became codified was primogeniture, or inheritance by the eldest son, but there had been a number of regional variations, including first-child inheritance in some northern districts.

A profitable possibility for a non-inheriting son was to set up his own house and start a new ie. This would be regarded as a branch of the main house, and in some areas there developed a strong wider group of houses which had all at some stage branched off from an original main one. These groups tended to maintain a stronger heirarchy in the north of Japan, but in the south such relations could be forgotten within a few generations.

The "main family" that a new ie branched off of was called the souke, or "house of origin", while the new ie was called a "bunke". A bunke owed allegance to its souke, and, in turn, the souke assisted the bunke in establishing itself, among other things. In many ways, it was a parent-child relationship writ large.

Assuming that you're referring to Rock Lee's explanation during the Hinata/Neji fight, what he said is that the Hyuuga clan is divided into souke and bunke. Remember, however, that Japanese has neither singular nor plural forms -- he doesn't say how many bunke there are. Additionally, souke and bunke are relational terms, rather akin to 'father' and 'son'. You cannot have a bunke without a souke it was created from, and every house has a souke it originally branched off of... save, of course, the 'original' house, from which all others branched. According to Japanese tradition, that's the house of the Emperor, which was a large part of the legitimitization of his rule. Even the Hyuuga souke -- Hinata and Hiashi's house -- has a souke -- it's just that the house they branched from isn't part of the Hyuuga clan.

Taking that into account, Rock Lee's explanation simply means that the Hyuuga clan is organized according to the traditional ie system.

Someone Screwed Up

Hanabi is not a member of the Branch House. Being the second daughter entitles her to the same rank and priviledge as any other Main Branch member. Please change the part about her being in the Branch and "not having a curse mark".

Madara Uchiha

This discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

You know there are pictures of him on the internet, i think we should put one on his little bio.Ultimaterasengan 15:54, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

But there aren't any real pictures. Only fanart. Besides, there are far more pertinent characters in this article who are more deserving of an image than someone who has only been named in passing. ~Snapper T o 17:52, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

sure but what real characters?Ultimaterasengan 22:11, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Actually, in chapter 364 a certain character reveals himself as Uchiha Madara.--[

Chiseimaru >>>> I can't edit the article as I'm "newly registered" but whoever added the extra information from Naruto:364 should make a slight change, as Tobi = Madara is unconfirmed,

If you think otherwise, read the second last page of 364 again, where Tobi says "my power, Uchiha Madara's power" Kind of indicating that he himself is NOT Uchiha Madara, but rather has the same power as Madara himself.

just my two pennies :) (not cents because im British)

I'm with this guy on this matter. Tobi saying that he has the same power as Uchiha Madara is not the same as admitting to being him. After all, the Nine-Tailed fox said that Uchiha Sasuke has the same sinister chakra as Madara, and we know he's not the same guy. Ishtarru 5:00, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Tobi is not Uchiha Madara, he just want's to achieve the power of Uchiha Madara.Knewkreation 23:06, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Tobi isn't Madara Uchiha as he states he only has Madara's power which implies that he is talking of the sharingan

Tobi never says hes madara uchiha, in chapter 364 pg 18 all he says is, and i Quote “ the Sharingan’s true power…. my power….. Uchiha Madara’s power…..” referring that he and Madara Uchiha shares the same power (Sharingan), not that they are one in the same. Also if he was reffering to himself as madar uchiha he would have said: the Sharingan’s true power, the power of me madara uchiha. Not Sharingan’s true power…. my power…. madara uchiha's power.

You realize that Naruto is written in Japanese, right? –Gunslinger47 01:46, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

No really I thought it was written in Germen of course I know that it's just that he would have said "me, madara uchiha" still--GasSnake or Poison Oak 05:26, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Noble Clans?

I noticed that the Akimichi clan, and the Hyuga clan are listed as "one of the four noble clans". What excatly would be the other two noble clans? I think it's the Uchiha (despite the fact they only have 2 members (3, if you think that Tobi is Obito)), and the Nara clan, for all the medience techniques they have, and being good friends with the Akimichi clan.

Correct me if I'm wrong about 4 nobles clans, that are just 2, or if my assumptions are wrong/correct. SOTL 16:51, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

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