Talk:Landmark (hotel and casino)

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Closing...[edit]

I've seen both 1990 and 1991 for closing dates. Also, the LVSun reports (in ref) opening to have occured on July2, 1969 (not July 1, 1969).  Guy M | Talk  16:05, 4 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Article title[edit]

"Landmark Hotel" is the name most commonly used in the sources cited in the article. Only 15 sources call it "Landmark Hotel and Casino", and two call it "Landmark Hotel & Casino". None of the sources call it "The Landmark Hotel and Casino". Sources also frequently refer to it as just "Landmark", and since Landmark Hotel is a disambiguation page, perhaps "Landmark (hotel and casino)" would be the best title.  AJFU  (talk) 16:07, 6 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with this. Bellagio's article name is also just Bellagio (resort), so this will set a precedent. Roif456 (talk) 11:27, 7 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Hello @Prisencolin: WP:NATURAL reads that we can use an alternative name that the subject is also commonly called in English reliable sources, albeit not as commonly as the preferred-but-ambiguous title. Do not, however, use obscure or made-up names. "Landmark Hotel & Casino" seems obscure, only being mentioned in two reliable sources out of nearly 300 cited in the article. "Landmark" is most commonly used, so "Landmark (hotel and casino)" seemed best, as it adequately describes what it is. I guess "Landmark Hotel (Las Vegas)" could also work.  AJFU  (talk) 13:46, 19 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@AJFU: Maybe that's true, but it's confusing how the logo implies the name is "Landmark Hotel & Casino" without any parentheses.--Prisencolin (talk) 02:37, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Casino logos don't always match with the actual name, as they occasionally will use some variation of the main name, which does lead to some confusion on Wikipedia. Also, there are some cases where not everything in a logo is meant to be part of the name. For example, the CasaBlanca Resort logo reads "CasaBlanca Resort Casino Golf Spa," but that's obviously not the full name. Those are amenities that are being included in the logo for marketing purposes. Same as with the Green Valley Ranch logo. As for the Landmark logo, it reads in its entirety "Landmark hotel and casino Las Vegas," but Las Vegas clearly isn't part of the name. The logo is simply advertising to people what "Landmark" is (a "hotel and casino" in "Las Vegas"). Note also that the Landmark logo uses "and", not "&", so the "Hotel & Casino" renaming doesn't even match the logo. Anyway, I don't think we go off of logos to determine a common name. We go by reliable sources, and the sources cited here rarely use "Hotel and Casino"/"Hotel & Casino". This is further supported by search results on Newslibrary:
  • "Landmark Hotel & Casino" - 107 results
  • "Landmark Hotel and Casino" - 72 results
  • "Landmark Hotel" "Vegas" - 936 results
On Newspapers.com, I got the following search results:
  • "Landmark Hotel & Casino" - 316 results
  • "Landmark Hotel and Casino" - 1,684 results
  • "Landmark Hotel" "Vegas" - 14,076 results
Both "Landmark" and "Landmark Hotel" are most commonly used, so it seems to me that we should either move this back to Landmark (hotel and casino) or rename it Landmark Hotel (Las Vegas).  AJFU  (talk) 14:53, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Prisencolin: Do you have any further comments on this? Would you object to moving the page back to its previous name? That name appeared to have consensus, going unchallenged for six months.  AJFU  (talk) 14:22, 23 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Looks like the numbers check out. If the consensus is to move it back to the old name, then it should be moved.--Prisencolin (talk) 18:55, 23 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Okay. I'll wait another week before moving it back, in case anyone else has any comments on this.  AJFU  (talk) 13:43, 24 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

For anyone who is interested, the article had over 14,000 page views while it was known as "Landmark (hotel and casino)", and no one during that six-month period raised any concerns about the title. Also, I realized that some of the above search results for "Landmark Hotel and Casino" are obviously for news articles that refer to it in lowercase as the "Landmark hotel and casino," without actually using it as a name. Furthermore, I looked through some of the search results on Newslibrary and found some irrelevant matches. For instance, some portion of those results are actually about a Landmark Hotel and Casino that was proposed in Iowa around 2004. Also, the search results for "Landmark Hotel & Casino" brought up matches for "Landmark hotel-casino" and "Landmark hotel/casino", but I didn't actually see any results that included an ampersand in the name. Furthermore, a lot of these results are in reference to famous hotels that are being described as a "landmark hotel", like Binion's or Caesars Palace. One news article reports that "a small fire broke out at the Lisboa Casino, a landmark hotel and casino complex in the Portuguese enclave." To sum things up, the "Landmark Hotel & Casino"/"Hotel and Casino" name is even more obscure than I previously realized.  AJFU  (talk) 13:43, 24 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

GA Review[edit]

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This review is transcluded from Talk:Landmark (hotel and casino)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Vami IV (talk · contribs) 21:05, 3 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]


Opening statement[edit]

In reviews I conduct, I may make small copyedits. These will only be limited to spelling and punctuation (removal of double spaces and such). I will only make substantive edits that change the flow and structure of the prose if I previously suggested and it is necessary. For replying to Reviewer comment, please use  Done,  Fixed, plus Added,  Not done,  Doing..., or minus Removed, followed by any comment you'd like to make. I will be crossing out my comments as they are redressed, and only mine. A detailed, section-by-section review will follow. —♠Vami_IV†♠ 21:05, 3 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Pinging AJFU as the article author, since he wrote 95.3% of it. –♠Vami_IV†♠ 21:05, 3 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hello. I wasn't sure which of the templates to add to my replies. The only one that seemed relevant was "Not done", but I didn't want to imply that I was rejecting any of your suggestions. I've responded to some of your comments and have made some suggestions, but I haven't made any changes to the article, as the nominator may have other ideas for improvement.  AJFU  (talk) 15:19, 4 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Ah. Let's hear from the nominator then, and then you two can decide if the review should proceed or be quick-failed to get this out of the backlog. –♠Vami_IV†♠ 23:19, 4 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Hello. I'm the nominator. I might have some suggestions to improve this, but my suggestions may also need to be reviewed. I also wouldn't mind if this were to quick-failed to get out of the backlog. Lemonreader (talk) 13:23, 5 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
So far, the issues below don't seem that bad to me. They mostly appear to be easy fixes.  AJFU  (talk) 14:53, 5 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Alright! Let's play ball. –♠Vami_IV†♠ 11:07, 8 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

As this the first of the reviewee's articles that I have reviewed, they should note that I am a grammar pendant and will nitpick in the interest of prose quality. –♠Vami_IV†♠ 12:55, 11 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hello @Lemonreader: I was wondering if you have the time to participate in this review or if I should go ahead and take over entirely. I don't want to take this away from you if you're still interested in working on it.  AJFU  (talk) 14:24, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@AJFU: I'm a little busy in here, but I think I can participate a bit. I've already done some parts recently, as seen below. You can do the rest. Thanks. Lemonreader (talk) 01:18, 11 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Article size[edit]

This article is, frankly, massive at 162k bytes and 64 kB of prose. Many of the comments I will make will be made with the intention of shrinking the article. –♠Vami_IV†♠ 21:05, 3 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

History[edit]

  • Footnote A has way too many citations.
    • Is there a guideline about how many citations can be in a note? Considering the claim about the different names used throughout the years, I figured an abundance of sources from different decades would be good to support the claim. I didn't think it was overboard, but I also agree that we could remove a few sources. Anyway, I had added the note to the opening sentence because that seemed the most relevant place to put it.  AJFU  (talk) 15:19, 4 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • minus Removed  AJFU  (talk) 15:57, 6 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • In 1960, Kansas City builder Frank Caroll I am to assume that Mr. Caroll is from Kansas City and not that he built Kansas City. And is "builder" the best he can be described as?
    • Perhaps "building developer" would be a bit more descriptive?  AJFU  (talk) 15:19, 4 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    •  Fixed I reworded that part and added the description that I suggested earlier.  AJFU  (talk) 15:57, 6 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Frank Caroll received a gaming license that year. Remove "Frank" here, he's already been introduced.
    • His wife Susan is mentioned in the previous sentence. I figured it was a good idea to specify which of the two received the license.  AJFU  (talk) 15:19, 4 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • There seems to be some missing information between Caroll decided to build the Landmark and then building the Landmark. How did he pay for construction? Did he make he leases, or get some anchors for his shopping center?
    • I'm not sure. I suppose the shopping center probably helped in some way, but I don't know if it was a primary way of financing the project.  AJFU  (talk) 15:19, 4 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Commencement[edit]

  • The Landmark Apartments, with 120 units,[33] were also built near the tower and operational by the end of 1961.[28][34][35][36] This is not contentious enough to require four citations.
  • averaging 11 yards per hour Throw in a Template:Convert for our metric friends.
    •  Not done This won't be needed, as the condensed version (directly below) does not mention yards.  AJFU  (talk) 15:57, 6 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Beginning that month, while plans for a separate hotel structure were being made, concrete for the tower was poured on a continuous 24-hour schedule, averaging 11 yards per hour.[40][2] The concrete pour was done with a slip forming method. At the start of the pour, it was expected that 21 floors would be added to the tower over a 12-day period.[40] Construction on the tower was expected to reach the 24th floor by the end of the month.[2] Condense all this.
    • Perhaps, would this "While plans for a separate hotel structure were being made, work began by pouring concrete on a continuous 24-hour schedule. The concrete pour was done with a slip forming method. With 21 floors expected to be added to the tower over a 12-day period, it was expected to reach the 24th floor by the end of the month." work? Lemonreader (talk) 13:45, 5 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Each day, it took crews 18 minutes to be lifted up. Because of strong winds, it took work crews two months to attach the aluminum. Due to the winds, installation of the aluminum was frequently ended early on some days, and installation was impossible to perform on other days.[55] Condense this too.
    • Perhaps, would this "Each day, it took crews 18 minutes to be lifted up. Due to delays arising from strong winds, it took crews two months for the aluminium to be attached." work? Lemonreader (talk) 13:45, 5 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • and the state,[43][34][44][45][46] Please reduce this to, like, three citations.

Delay[edit]

  • that Caroll and his wife Shorten to "the Carolls"
  • Caroll and his wife filed a $2.1 million damage suit against ABCC and sought to halt the sale. The Carolls' suit alleged that ABCC stopped construction and refused to pay the contractors. Condense.
    • Will this do? The Carolls sought to halt the sale, and filed a $2.1 million damage suit against ABCC, alleging that the company stopped construction and refused to pay the contractors.  AJFU  (talk) 14:40, 10 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Did the tower not open in April 1963? When did it open?
    •  Fixed I believe I have fixed this by clarifying that the 1963 opening did not occur as scheduled.  AJFU  (talk) 14:40, 10 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • an additional six months was needed to complete the tower. Were needed
  • Local residents nicknamed it the "Leaning Tower of Las Vegas", the "Leaning Tower of Plaza" and "Frank's Folly."[15][43][57][58][59] Too many citations.
  • I recommend combining paragraphs 1 and 2 once the above have been knocked out.

Resumption[edit]

  • including Frank Caroll and his wife Sue Caroll, and L. P. Scherer Abbreviate; all three people here have already been introduced.
  • Construction was scheduled to resume on August 22, 1966.[62][63] Construction equipment was being prepared two days later,[26] and construction was underway again in early September 1966,[64] with completion expected in early 1967.[23] Condense.
  • The shops and taverns in the Landmark Plaza were closed,[4][65][66] and the shopping center was demolished,[4] [...] The nearby gas station was also demolished.[4] Combine.
  • which used 100,000 yards of concrete and 100 tons of steel. Cubic?
    • I wasn't sure if you meant cubic yards, cubic tons, or both. Anyway, the source doesn't specify that it's cubic. I don't know if cubic would be correct here or not.  AJFU  (talk) 15:33, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Further developments[edit]

  • on charges of assault and battery against England.[79][78][80][81] Cut one or two of these.
  • The placing of "Plane crash", in August, before "Financial problems", in May-August, perplexes me.
  • In late August 1968, Las Vegas-based Supreme Mattress Company the Las Vegas-based Supreme Mattress Company
  • a transaction that he was blocked from completing for antitrust reasons Axe.
  • Condense the last paragraph of "Sale negotiations and Howard Hughes" and combine it with the second paragraph.
  • and the brokerage firm [...] Make this its own sentence.
    • It's still a few sentences, but I trimmed them down. I think it looks okay.  AJFU  (talk) 14:35, 11 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Opening and operation[edit]

  • [...] crews from Southwest Gas Corporation inspected [...] the Southwest Gas Corporation.
  • Citations [139], [140], and [141] are repeated without interruption or need in the first paragraph of "Gas leak and fire".
  • The first four sentences of "Prospective buyers" all suffer from WP:Proseline. They all also take place in October of 1977. If possible, condense and combine these paragraphs into a single or two paragraphs, please.
  • Summa spokesman Fred Lewis said that Acro's bid was considered to be "more of an inquiry" than a serious offer,[157] a belief that was later disputed by Acro vice president Leonard Gale, who also said, "We realize the Landmark is the biggest lemon in Las Vegas. But we have a program that would be sensational and we know we could turn the place around."[158] Split this, and consider summarizing the second quotation.
  • [...] offered to pay all Landmark bills and debts [...] All the Landmark's debts.
    • minus Removed I removed the entire sentence, as it didn't seem too important.  AJFU  (talk) 19:14, 14 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Lou Tickel, a former magistrate judge Delete "Lou". Jo Ann Tickel is introduced in the following paragraph, so there's no need for "Lou" to be here.
  • However, the new owners had been unable to find someone with a gaming license and sufficient funds to continue operating the casino ahead of the sale's completion. The investment group had not yet applied with the county and state for gaming and liquor licenses, and Summa Corporation declined to continue operating the casino, citing a lack of interest in the property. Condense.
  • [...] began plans to purchase the resort. Made plans.
  • [...] but that the document mistakenly was never filed [...] Delete "mistakenly".
  • Later in the month, the Nevada Gaming Control Board delayed approval of Morris' purchase of the resort until his offer could be updated to include a $5 million payment for Summa – as part of his $18.4 million offer for the resort – to cover what Zula Wolfram owed to the company. Condense.
  • [...] to include a $5 million payment for Summa, to cover what Zula Wolfram owed to the company. We already know about the owed five million. Consider: [...] to include what Zula Wolfram owed to Summa.
  • I fail to see the relevance or need for the quote in "Morris ownership".
    • I think it's worth keeping. It explains why the Landmark was never a success. However, I did remove it as a block quote and trimmed it down.  AJFU  (talk) 17:50, 23 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Morris spent nearly $3.5 million on a renovation of the Landmark,[187] which was underway in early December 1983. The resort remained open during renovations. Condense.
  • At the time, the casino offered its Single-Deck Blackjack Tournament, with a $57 entry fee. Casino manager Ron Nadeau said "we think this is the type of play that will catch on here. It is priced in a range that anyone can afford to join the action." Irrelevant.
  • In May 1985, the casino offered the "More Than $100,000 Craps Tournament".[188] Axe.
  • [...] which had failed to comply with fire safety standards [...] Redundant.
  • $2.1 lien 2.1 million dollars?
  • Every paragraph in the second half of "Morris ownership" starts with prose line.
  • Drexel Burnham Lambert Who?
  • Richard Davis, a Las Vegas real estate executive and owner of a funeral home, [...] Is the fact that Davis owned a funeral home really relevant here? The clause "a Las Vegas-based real estate agent" will suffice.
  • Ultimately, Droubay and Heckmaster's plan to purchase the Landmark did not come together. Rewrite.
    •  Done I moved it to the next section and rewrote it.  AJFU  (talk) 17:50, 23 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Architecture[edit]

  • The uniquely designed Landmark tower was the first of its kind to be built in Nevada; [...] This is rather vague. First of what type, exactly? Style of architecture?
    • The source simply calls it an "odd-shaped building" and the first of its kind in Nevada. Perhaps this would be clearer: The tower was considered oddly shaped, with its narrow structure and bubble dome. It was the first building in Nevada to have such an appearance.  AJFU  (talk) 16:41, 25 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • [...] the Space Needle tower [...] "Tower" is redundant here.
  • When it opened, the Landmark had a total of 400 slot machines. Swap the locations of "it" and "the Landmark".
  • [...] and a wall sculpture made of burnished metal that represented a launch from Cape Kennedy. Condense.
  • [...] as well as carved mahogany [...] Replace "as well as" with "and".
  • The interior, including the casino, was considered to be spacious. Irrelevant.
  • by perlite concrete and steel girders. There seem to be some missing commas here.
    • I don't think this is an error. The source reads "perlite concrete", not "perlite" and "concrete".  AJFU  (talk) 16:41, 25 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • [...] Towers Restaurant was located on the 27th floor.[122][235] A Chinese restaurant, the Mandarin Room, operated on the 29th floor.[122][235] [122][135] repeated without cause here.
  • New red stripes were also added along the windows running up the tower and the roof was painted red to match. The entrance had red-lit outriggers added and a new side entrance was added to the casino.[citation needed] This needs to be supported or removed.

Performances[edit]

  • Lots of prose line happening down here.

GA progress[edit]

References are reliable. –♠Vami_IV†♠ 01:47, 25 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

There are not disambiguation links present. –♠Vami_IV†♠ 01:47, 25 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Images are relevant to the article and are free/tagged. –♠Vami_IV†♠ 01:47, 25 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Good Article review progress box
Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV ()
3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant ()
Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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