Talk:Le Bal du comte d'Orgel

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Requested move 28 January 2019[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Page moved, Le bal du Comte d'Orgel → Le Bal du comte d'Orgel and The Ball of Count Orgel → Le Bal du comte d'Orgel (film). (closed by non-admin page mover) Warm Regards, ZI Jony (Talk) 17:17, 18 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

First off, the "b" of "bal" should be capitalised (see for example the title of the corresponding article on the French wikipedia). The target title Le Bal du Comte d'Orgel, however, is occupied by a dab page, which also lists a film of the same name. The tricky question then is whether the novel should be treated as the primary topic (as it is for example on the French wikipedia). If yes, then the move would involve the deletion (or displacement) of that dab page. If not, then the move would be to Le Bal du Comte d'Orgel (novel). – Uanfala (talk) 23:14, 28 January 2019 (UTC) --Relisting. SITH (talk) 12:54, 6 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Neither the book nor the film are at the correct titles. The French has "comte" in lower case. MOS:FOREIGNTITLE says "retain the style of the original for modern works". (So does WP:NCCAPS#Works_and_compositions.)
The film is actually at the title The Ball of Count Orgel, and Le Bal du Comte d'Orgel (film) (created from this move in 2009) redirects to it. So on the face of it there's no need for the disambiguation page, whichever way you look at it, just turn the DAB into a redirect to the book as {{R from incorrect capitalization}}.
BUT I think the film should have the French title, per WP:NCF#Foreign-language films.As far as I can tell this film has never been released under an English title. Of the two links in the article, the Cannes Film Festival has a layout so bad I can glean nothing from it, and IMDB gives this English title, but all the details, artwork etc. are for the French original and I can't see that it has been dubbed or subtitled. My search gives nothing beyond listings sites. I suspect that the English title for the French film is just synthetic.
The English title for the book is "Count d'Orgel's Ball", e.g. at here at complete-review.com, at Amazon Books. If this is the WP:COMMONNAME, then that should be the article title for the book. But that would not change which was primary topic for the French title. 94.21.204.175 (talk) 09:53, 29 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, I hadn't noticed the "comte" was lower-case. So the book should be titled Le Bal du comte d'Orgel (as in the French article)? That makes sense. – Uanfala (talk) 13:13, 29 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Yes. But so should the film. 94.21.204.175 (talk) 14:34, 29 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
It's also unclear what the filmic Count is called in English. In the translated (published) book title, he is "Count d'Orgel". Here at unifrance.fr he is "Count d'Orgel", but at IMDB he is "Count Orgel". It is partly why I suspect the English title is just an ad-hoc translation, not a released title. 94.21.204.175 (talk) 14:45, 29 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • In ictu oculi, I agree that would be the usual way to format a title coming from French, but why do you suppose the French Wiki uses "Bal" instead of "bal"? Dekimasuよ! 19:28, 13 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Have you edited on fr.wp? It's pretty random. :) In ictu oculi (talk) 22:34, 14 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, look: MOS:FR#Caplitalization: turns out it's all a lot more complicated than we'd thought. So, we should have an upper-case "B" because: 1) "Bal" is preceded by "le", which is a definite article (it would be lower-case if it were an indefinite article), 2) the title is not a sentence, and – here's wikipedia adding its own twist – this is not a title of an opera or a work of visual art. – Uanfala (talk) 23:21, 14 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
OK, that looks right per WP:MOSFR#Capitalization. Support Le Bal du comte d'Orgel and Le Bal du comte d'Orgel (film). Dekimasuよ! 05:43, 15 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
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