Talk:Life in the Iron Mills

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Former good article nomineeLife in the Iron Mills was a Language and literature good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
December 23, 2011Good article nomineeNot listed

Class editing project[edit]

We are a group of English students from SFSU and we are beginning a project editing this page.Wikipedia:WikiProject_Classroom_coordination/SFSU_Class_Project MattHeitland (talk) 18:44, 18 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I looked at the discussion pg. for Blood on the Forge and I urge you guys to check it out as well. They seem to have a very clear dialogue about the direction they want to go happening. I tried to link some resource possibilities, but was unable to. I may have to contact one of our editorial helpers, unless any of you feel like you can put me on the right track. MattHeitland (talk) 02:25, 25 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

how do i reference what i just did i have no idea how to do it Erikar345 (talk) 05:35, 26 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

If you tell me the information for one reference and where you want the footnote to show up, I or one of the other helpers can do a sample one for you. Just give all the reference information and then say what sentence it supports so we can put the footnote after that sentence. Cloveapple (talk) 06:08, 26 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]


http://docsouth.unc.edu/fpn/davisr/davis.html --Supports: It always has seemed to me that each human being, before going out into the silence, should leave behind him, not the story of his own life, but of the time in which he lived, - as he saw it, - its creed, its purpose, its queer habits, and the work which it did or left undone in the world.

So I just want to know how to add the links I use in the Background section to the Reference section of this article.

Thanks for the help. Erikar345 (talk) 14:46, 26 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

http://www.enotes.com/american-history-literature-cc/life-iron-mills -- Supports: Davis's realistic depiction of the gritty, hellish mills and the impoverished workers' lives is far removed from the material advantages of the upper classes often portrayed in domestic fiction. She also uses the vernacular and dialect skillfully to depict realistically her uneducated immigrant characters and to emphasize their lower-class status. Davis counteracts positive images of healthy, wholesome mill girls and mills as ideal places of work. Life in the Iron Mills challenges the optimism of transcendentalism by showing how industrialism fueled by greedy capitalists destroys the natural environment and the human spirit.

If I could also get a sample of how to add this citation to the reference section I would appreciate it. Thanks. MattHeitland (talk) 21:43, 26 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Take a look at the example I added to the article. The actual code I added is right after the words of the quote. Whatever you put between <ref> and </ref> will magically show up down in the reference section. There are variations on that, but that is the most basic version. WP:REFSTART may help you understand references better. As a first step I'd suggest just putting some basic information between <ref> and </ref> after each statement you want to support.
Here's a more generalized example:
This is a paragraph in the article. It says stuff. Blah blah blah.<ref>what goes here is what you want to magicly show up way down in the reference section</ref>
You will be able to tweak it later to get it just right. (I'm sure you'll want to tweak the reference I added since I didn't list some basic information such as the date of the edition.) There's more than one acceptable format for references. A common way to format your references is something called citation templates, but no matter what style you choose for this article you want all the references to have the same style. Cloveapple (talk) 06:02, 27 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Who ever did plot summary: Please fix the summary Plot; I would like to help but I don't know what is being copied and pasted. Thanks. Erikar345 (talk) 21:36, 1 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Did you see the "Copyright issues" section below? I think that explains it, but if that's unclear I'd be glad to try to say it a different way. Cloveapple (talk) 01:29, 5 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Background-Plot[edit]

I think you need to separate your plot summary from your background section - - in re our model page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Profhanley (talk • contribs) 15:44, 30 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Is it not separated? I don't understand. Erikar345 (talk) 13:51, 3 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry guys... I know I've been slacking, I' going to be working on my part tonight. I'll clean up that plot summary and beef up the characters. I'll also put a picture up as well Rrivas27 (talk) 16:44, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I'm planning to rewrite the summary plot. How does the citing work in this summary plot? I wasn't going to use a secondary source, or do I? Rrivas27 (talk) 04:05, 11 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

As mentioned down below in the Copyright issues section, I removed the whole plot section to get rid of the copyright issues. Then Erikar345 rewrote it, hopefully avoiding copyright issues. Wikipedia:How to write a plot summary explains sourcing for a plot summary (and no, you don't need secondary sources).
I'm not sure about one line in the current summary that might be gettiong into opinion. Is it directly stated in the story that "it is evident that the narrator is a middle class observer"? Be careful not to accidentally get into opinion or analysis in the plot summary. Hope that helps. If you need a hand understanding Wikipedia's odd ways feel free to leave me a note here or on your my talk page. Cloveapple (talk) 04:31, 11 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I just did some minor changes to the summary plot. Rrivas27 (talk) 04:53, 11 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Suggestions[edit]

Article is looking very good! Maybe you should break up the "Lit. Analysis/Themes" section into subsections to better organize the different main thematic issues in the text. Seeing also as you've mastered the use of images - - perhaps a couple of images to illustrate things, especially in re industrialism. (See this page on Crane's [The Open Boat]) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Profhanley (talk • contribs) 17:12, 15 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

On sources and references[edit]

There is a good secondary body of writing on Davis's text, e.g. Laura Hapke's Labor's Text or even The Columbia History of the American Novel. E.g. - - ditch the "e-notes" references and sources! Profhanley (talk) 14:53, 27 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Feedback[edit]

Hey guys! Like your page, and diggin' the citations -- it makes for a good, interesting, straightforward article. My only gripe, however, is to italicize the title of the text, tighten up grammar. Good job dudes! Giusti18 (talk) 04:42, 27 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you! We appreciate all the help we can get. Erikar345 (talk) 14:15, 27 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]


I life what you have so far, especially the reception section, I think our group could use it as a model. Same with your Background section. Also good job with using citations! Michaela M (talk) 10:35, 27 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]


I like how your style section also includes genre. I am doing style and genre for Blood on the Forge, and looking at how you sort of put those sections together is actually really helping me with the direction I want to go with my section. caitlinannee (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 21:19, 31 October 2011 (UTC).[reply]

I really like what you have done so far! The character section could use some work though, while it's true that the descriptions should be concise-- they should also be a little more inclusive of that character's role in the novel (and not just their relationship to other characters). On a more positive note-- I'm definitely going to use your citations as a model for my own work on the Blood on the Forge page!!! Mikayla Moore —Preceding undated comment added 22:20, 10 November 2011 (UTC).[reply]

Empty section removed[edit]

If you want to add the "Legacy" section back, please do so with prose. Viriditas (talk) 09:59, 28 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Lead section[edit]

Per WP:LEAD, the lead section should summarize the most important points in the article. This may include:

  • Genre checkY
  • Author checkY
  • Setting checkY
  • Plot
  • Primary themes
  • Critical reception checkY
  • Literary analysis
  • Influence or impact checkY
  • Legacy

Two to three paragraphs is acceptable for an article of this size. Viriditas (talk) 04:11, 30 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Copyright issues[edit]

Entire phrases and sentences of the plot summary are copied word for word from this Encyclopedia.com article. If for some reason you need to use somebody else's exact words, consider using brief quotations. Just citing the source is not enough when you are reusing their exact copyrighted words. I'd suggest reading Wikipedia:Copyright violations.

You also might be helped by Wikipedia:How to write a plot summary. Plot summary is a section where it is ok to use the story itself as a source. (For interpretation or analysis or themes you still need to cite secondary sources, but for the bare simple plot you can cite the story itself.) Cloveapple (talk) 20:43, 1 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

File:PlagiarismHandout.pdf might also be a good handout for the whole class. Cloveapple (talk) 01:33, 5 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Since nobody has fixed it, I just removed the whole section. (I probably should have done that at the beginning.) It would have needed to be rewritten from scratch without copyright violations. If you need to use exact quotes, remember to use quotation marks. Again, I suggest reading Wikipedia:How to write a plot summary and File:PlagiarismHandout.pdf Cloveapple (talk) 22:33, 7 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note to group[edit]

Just checked out the "What Work Is" page. They've done a nice job expanding a pg. that didn't have much to begin with. I did suggest something that may or may not help them out to beef up their pg. a bit. Check out the suggestion I left. Maybe it will kick start a discussion of how we can look into connecting "Life in the Iron Mills" to our current economic situation.MattHeitland (talk) 22:21, 2 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Well i don't know if making a connection like that is appropriate in Wikipedia, maybe an experienced wiki contributor can tell us if it is or not. Erikar345 (talk) 01:57, 3 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It might be appropriate if and only if you have sources that explicitly make a connection between Life in the Iron Mills and something current. Cloveapple (talk) 06:29, 3 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. Erikar345 (talk) 21:03, 3 November 2011 (UTC) I went to "What Work Is" page and I recommended they add a background section, also their page seems to be really good. We should start adding an image to our wiki. Maybe we can ask them how they did it. Erikar345 (talk) 03:53, 3 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I'm really impressed with the way this page has come along. Great job on finding reliable sources. I will definitely try and include some sources into my own wiki page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ivannalq (talk • contribs) 23:42, 5 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I'll take care of beefing up the intro section as well as working a bit more on themes and analysis. Still checking on the Southern/Slavery context angle to see if anything of value. MattHeitland (talk) 23:42, 9 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Inserting an Image[edit]

I need help in inserting an image. I did the format and already uploaded the image, but when I embed the file it doesn't shows up. Any assistance would be appreciated. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Erikar345 (talk • contribs) 23:39, 8 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This is the image: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Life_in_the_Mills.JPG Erikar345 (talk) 23:45, 8 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It looks like capitalization was causing the problem. The actual file name says "JPG" but the link that didn't work said "jpg". All fixed now. Cloveapple (talk) 17:51, 9 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thank You! Erikar345 (talk) 18:17, 9 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review[edit]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Reviewing
This review is transcluded from Talk:Life in the Iron Mills/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Jezhotwells (talk · contribs) 11:44, 13 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I shall be reviewing this article against the Good Article criteria, following its nomination for Good Article status.

Disambiguations: One found and fixed.[1] Jezhotwells (talk) 11:50, 13 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Linkrot: two found and tagged.[2] Jezhotwells (talk) 12:14, 13 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Checking against GA criteria[edit]

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
  1. It is reasonably well written.
    a (prose): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):
    Prose is not very good, examples:
    After being published anonymously, both Emily Dickinson and Nathaniel Hawthorne praised the work. Implies that Dickinson & Hawthorne were published anonymously!
    Elizabeth Stuart Phelps was also greatly influenced by Davis's Life in the Iron Mills and in 1868 published in The Atlantic Monthly "The Tenth of January," based on the 1860 fire at the Pemberton Mills in Lawrence, Massachusetts. Over complex and confusing.
    She wrote to find social change for blacks, women, immigrants, and the working class throughout the Civil War. "to find"?
    Life in the Iron Mills received much deserved attention during her writings, she was also recognized by "literary giants"[8] such as; Oliver Wendell Holmes, Bronson Allot, Elizabeth Palmer Peabody, Henry Ward Beecher, Ralph Waldo Emerson, and Nathaniel Hawthorne. I don't think we need such a long list choose two or three. And wikilink them.
    Hawthorne encouraged Davis to continue to write, but was forgotten by the literary world by the time of her death.  ???? I am gobsmacked! Do you have any concept of writing good plain English? That sentence suggests that Hawthorne was forgotten by the time of Davis's death.
    Rebecca Harding Davis's Life in the Iron Mills, is recognized as an impacting short story by writers such as Emily Dickinson, Louisa May Alcott, and Nathaniel Hawthorne among many others. repetition and illiteracy - "impacting short story"?
    There is little point in reviewing the prose further as it is so badly written.
  2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.
    a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):
    What makes Novelguide[3]
    References such as: Tichi, Cecelia. A Bedford Cultural Edition: Life in the Iron Mills, 1998. and Hughes, Shelia. American Quarterly: A Liberationist Reading of Class and Gender in Life in the Iron Mills , 1997. need page numbers, publishers should also be provided.
    I have placed citation needed tags where statements are uncited.
    Two dead links need addressing.
  3. It is broad in its coverage.
    a (major aspects): b (focused):
    The article appears to have broad coverage of the topic.
  4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.
    Fair representation without bias:
    NPOV
  5. It is stable.
    No edit wars, etc.:
    Stable
  6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
    a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
    The caption: "Housing in a mills factory in Alabama as photographed by Hine, Lewis Wickes in 1910." should be rewritten. The housing is not "in" the factory! There should be a caption for the book cover stating publication date of the reprint. Licensing OK
  7. Overall:
    Pass/Fail:
    Please get this copy-edited, and address the other issues. On hold for seven days. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jezhotwells (talk • contribs) 13 December 2011
    No action has been taken to address the problems identified, so this nomination is failed. Jezhotwells (talk) 09:29, 23 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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