Talk:Linda November

Linda November has been listed as one of the Music good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
August 16, 2011	Good article nominee	Listed

A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "Did you know?" column on June 27, 2011.

The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that Linda November was the voice of the singing cat in the Meow Mix commercials, and sang tens of thousands of other jingles, including "Coke and a Smile" on the famous Mean Joe Greene Super Bowl ad?

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GA Review[edit]

This review is transcluded from Talk:Linda November/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: ♦ Dr. Blofeld 12:20, 14 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Beginning read through, will post gradually.♦ Dr. Blofeld 12:20, 14 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Lead

Please source birth dates and place.

Done. --El on ka 14:57, 14 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Early years (1930s–1960s)

"She attended Thomas Jefferson High School, then The High School of Music & Art." Do we have dates/ages for this?
- She has told me the details in email, but I have not been able to locate a published source. Think it might be okay though, via WP:AUTO? --El on ka 14:52, 14 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

OK, as long as its not original research, a shame she doesn't appear to have an online website with a biography relating this.♦ Dr. Blofeld 15:47, 14 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"While she herself was at the office, November met another patient who had contacts in the music industry, and so she sang an impromptu audition. " I gather that she was talking to another patient whilst waiting and found out that the fellow patient had contacts so asked if she could sing for her? Can you elaborate/clarify this, it seems a little bizarre to have an audition at a doctors that's all.
- Reworded. --El on ka 14:52, 14 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
"pretty sopranos" If this is a quote please cite the source.
- Dallas Morning News. Source added. --El on ka 14:52, 14 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Can you reference the Ray Charles part?
- Done. Note also that this is Ray Charles (composer), not soul singer Ray Charles. --El on ka 14:52, 14 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, I had thought this!♦ Dr. Blofeld 15:47, 14 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Jingle singer

"In a couple unusual jingles" -awkward, please reword to "in several unusual jingles"
- Done. --El on ka 14:52, 14 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
"huge success". "most famously" - WP:PEACOCK, maybe reword to a "major success" and "most notably"
- Done. --El on ka 14:52, 14 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Other projects

"She, Tony Orlando, and Toni Wine sang "Candida", in a group surreptitiously entitled "Dawn" so that Orlando, a recording industry executive at the time, would not get in trouble with his current company, April-Blackwood at CBS. " Sorry you've lost me. Please explain. How would the name cause trouble?
"Orlando asked two other session singers, Telma Hopkins and Joyce Vincent Wilson, to become a real "Dawn" group so that they could go on tour." Real seems out of place here. You mean "formal"? Please reword.
- I've reworded the section for both of the above, please let me know if it makes more sense now? --El on ka 14:52, 14 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"Let's Do It" clip has not been OTRS ticketed yet so cannot formally be approved. Please consider removing this clip until the OTRS has been officially sealed.
- Agreed, and removed. --Elonka 14:52, 14 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  - (followup) The OTRS permission has been archived now, so I re-added the clip. --El on ka 07:27, 16 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
"In 1988 they became a couple, and in 1996, they married." - Source please.
- Done. --El on ka 14:52, 14 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"she continues to work as a piano and keyboard accompanist." where, who for, what kind of work is this? Recording, live acts, or what?
- She and her husband put on occasional shows, for example they just did a Cole Porter tribute a couple months ago. Again, per WP:AUTO, it seemed more appropriate to put it like this than just to leave it as "she retired". --El on ka 14:52, 14 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I think it would be more appropriate to put her 2011 portrait in the infobox and the group photo including her husband in section where it mentions him.
- Done. --El on ka 14:52, 14 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Notable works

"1976, with Jimi Hendrix (Crash Landing)" Hendrix died in 1970! needs a rewording that she didn't actually sing with Hendrix but recorded her voice on one of his tracks or something.

I added "posthumously", will that cover it? --El on ka 14:52, 14 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Sure.♦ Dr. Blofeld 15:50, 14 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Sources

Sources mostly look OK. Although "Song Facts." is dubious, but I guess it is a recorded interview. Sadly a distinct lack of books sources used and which actually exist. Looking in google books there is a distinct lack of books mentioning her, can't be helped I guess.

Agreed. I searched hard for every source I could find, but she was fairly publicity-averse during her career, so there's not a lot to go on. If there are any other sources, I don't know about them! --El on ka 14:52, 14 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, its the same with some of the very important and often most prolific contributors to the film industry such as cinematographers, editors, musicians, art directors, stuntmen etc who are not actors and directors.♦ Dr. Blofeld 15:50, 14 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

More on jingles

I was surprised to see there was not a larger list of notable jingles she had sung. I mean, tens of thousands is a huge amount. I would have expected to have seen several dozen of the most notable ones listed or at least 10, certainly more than at present. Is there a reason for this, or could you perhaps expand the list of notables a bit further? ♦ Dr. Blofeld 16:05, 14 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I am in agreement, but again, there's a problem with sourcing. There are multiple reliable sources which confirm the "tens of thousands" number, probably because she was just non-stop in the studio for so many years. But in terms of listing specific jingles, there are very few sources, and I've listed most of the ones that I could find. I could probably stretch the list with a few more jingles that were mentioned on one single personal interview that November did on the "Ronnie show", where she sang several other jingles,[1] but as it's a single primary source, I didn't feel that it was enough to source the major claim that she was the singer on each of those jingles. Also, she was often singing as part of a group, so since we don't have the names of the other singers at the time, it's again a little dicey. There have been other cases where November has stated that she was the backup singer on a certain song (such as Barbra Streisand's "Stoney End"), but that song does list its backup singers, and November isn't on the list. I doubt she's making it up (she doesn't need to), but it does make it difficult to give credit if she was an uncredited singer. If you feel that the Ronnie source is okay though, I'll go pull in the list of jingles from that interview. --El on ka 17:21, 14 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Ronnie source is most certainly acceptable. Please do. Of course, if possible it would be nice for it to be backed up with third party sources but as you say she has no reason to lie and it would much improve the coverage of the article I think. I'd like to see several dozen in the list if possible, as many of which are mentioned. You can use div col if the list is more than ten so it doesn't visually affect the page length. I feel that a sound article needs a fuller coverage of more of her songs simply as a reference point for readers, ideally in chronological order. I'd list all of those mentioned in the interview, as long as there is isn't literally hundreds and thousands and it would ridiculously bloat the article. A few dozen or more than 10 of what you or she deems most notable would suffice. ♦ Dr. Blofeld 17:57, 14 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

List expanded with everything I could find. Hope it's enough! --El on ka 06:51, 16 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

Is it reasonably well written?
A. Prose quality:

B. MoS compliance:
Is it factually accurate and verifiable?
A. References to sources:

B. Citation of reliable sources where necessary:

C. No original research:
Is it broad in its coverage?
A. Major aspects:

B. Focused:
Is it neutral?
Fair representation without bias:
Is it stable?
No edit wars, etc:
Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?
A. Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales:

B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions:
Overall:
Pass or Fail:

Good job, especially seems as the book sources available on Linda November seem very lacking indeed. This article could do with a lot of work, especially from the 1970s -present given the extent of her career but given the lack of sources seems to be an adequate summary. Prose could also be polished up a bit. But it is the source issue which leads me to believe this can never be developed further to FA quality. It appears to be a good summary though overall and meets the GA criteria.♦ Dr. Blofeld 16:18, 16 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed, I can't see this article ever making FA without more sources. I'm happy with GA though! Thanks for your help, --El on ka 16:42, 16 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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