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Archive 1 Archive 2

Moving notable lists from individual model pages











Featured List drive

I was involved in the process of making List of Telecaster players into a Featured List, and I'd like to knock this one into shape as well. I'm going to start going through it to see what meets the criteria in the lead. If something doesn't have a good source, I will first look for one, then remove it from the list if I don't find one. I will place it here in case anyone wants to look for sources. --Spike Wilbury (talk) 15:50, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

Removed entries

  • Johnny A uses a Johnny A Signature model designed specifically for him by Gibson to the guitarist's personal specifications.
  • Buckethead (real name: Brian Carroll) uses several Les Pauls custom-made by Gibson which feature oversized bodies, 24-fret necks, dimarzio pickups and his trademark kill switch. They are usually all white. He is also known to own a modified Les Paul custom in alpine white with gold hardware.
I re-added. I am only in sporadically for the next couple of weeks... but will gladly help find more refs for them.... and the others when I get back to regular editing in a couple of weeks. Wiki libs (talk) 01:47, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
Thanks a lot, that will be a big help. I'm not sure if it's better to move entries here while they're waiting for refs, or just to tag them in the article. --Spike Wilbury (talk) 02:38, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
  • Euronymous (Mayhem) used a Gibson Les Paul for Mayhem from its formation in 1984 until his murder in 1993.
  • Tomoaki "Pata" Ishizuka (X Japan) uses multiple Gibson Les Paul's through out his career in X Japan along with a rare 1950's Gibson Explorer and a Gibson EDS-1275.

Consolidated requests from Talk page (if sources found)

Steve Clark

Two wiki vandalism users (wikilbs and Nyfm) who are obsessed to delete the incorporation of STeve Clark to this list. We have plenty of sources in order to validate the information--Therein8383 (talk) 16:49, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

First of all, see WP:AGF. And have you actually read the criteria in the lead? Nymf hideliho! 18:28, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

1) Your last comment regarding -He used gibson 2 years- are wrong since you dont seem read the rest of the article. 2) Artist web pages, manufacturer web pages, and other self-published sources are not acceptable... The lead says that. So why other guitarists on the list appears with a web source coming from their web pages, manufacturer web page (in this case gibson), others with citation missing and others barely explain when or what guitar they used. 3) It's easy delete things of others specially when you are not bringing nothing to the table. Im redacting a brand new statement for Steve clark with a couple of new better citations (Which the current I used is good coming from a third party web page showing an article of a magazine back in 1988 with pictures). I will post it for a couple of days, if nobody came to discuss it I will posted right away on the article, I'm tired you wikilbs and Nyfm came in and delete stuff without discuss.--Therein8383 (talk) 19:03, 6 November 2010 (UTC)


Indented line

Steve Clark (Def Leppard) played Gibson guitars exclusively during his career, the main one being a classic Gibson Les Paul Standard. He also used a Gibson Firebird and the twin neck Gibson EDS 1275, referred to onstage by Joe as the Gibson 18-string Razor. [1]. He used on High 'n' Dry world tour a Gibson Explorer made out of Honduran mahogany.[2] His primary axes on the Pyromania world tour were a Gibson Les Paul Standard and a Gibson Les Paul XR-1. During Hysteria world tour he used Gibson “Dirty Fingers” mounts on his Gibson models such as W-neck Gibson EDS 1275 and Gibson Firebird.[3] [4]. --Therein8383 (talk) 19:33, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

Sources used: 1) http://rockureview.com/?p=1220 2) http://www.steveclarkguitar.com/StevesHysteriaTourGuitars.html 3) http://www.guitaredge.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=614:def-leppard-bringin-on-the-heartbreak&catid=54:this-months-songs-with-tab&Itemid=89 4) http://www.deflepparduk.com/steveclark.html (Not the band web page)

References

  1. ^ "Steve Clark bio". 2000. Retrieved 2010-11-02.
  2. ^ "Def Leppard - Bringin' On the Heartbreak". 2000. Retrieved 2010-11-02. {{cite web}}: Check |url= value (help)
  3. ^ "Steve's guitars for Hysteria tour". 2006. Retrieved 2010-11-02.
  4. ^ "Loss of a "REAL" Guitar Hero…". 2009. Retrieved 2010-11-06. {{cite web}}: Check |url= value (help)
Steve Clark doesn't meet the rules that are listed in the beginning of the article. Thousands of guitarists use Gibson products. Any new addition to the list has to have references that support the fact that their playing of a Gibson guitar had a notable inpact on the use of that particular guitar. Steve Clark was a mediocre to average guitar player in a band that was successful in the 1980s. And he played a Gibson guitar. He not notable for doing it. He is only notable for being in a popular 80s band. And now for being dead. In the end no one really cares what guitar he played as his playing had no real impact on anyone. The music that he played was popular. But the fact that he used a Gibson is not notable. 198.164.219.128 (talk) 22:29, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
Thanks for join the discussion, unfortunately what you are saying seems clearly a personal feeling that is NOT backed up with any source. When you said "Steve Clark was a mediocre to average guitar player in a band that was successful in the 1980s." you are miserably contradicting yourself since Steve clark wrote all the music on this successful band. How can a bad mediocre guitarist had written successful hits and blockbuster records? He is notable because he belongs to a multi platinum rock band and he always used Gibson as his principal axe (See all references above), Also he is notable for gibson guitar because he was one of few guitar players that played Gibson Les Paul XR-1 (which is extremely rare) and 58 Sunburst Les Paul http://www.steveclarkguitar.com/STEVECLARKGUITAR-YGAvol3INTERVIEW.html At the end of the day he was clearly seen play a lot of Gibson models during his career (8 different types of models), which he played on concerts and videos (Go see any def leppard video and you will see Clark playing Gisbons standard, firebird or 58'.) Videos like "Photograph", pour some sugar on me or Animal, videos that were played 24/7 and still being popular and this guy always playing Gibson its something clearly notable. Your arguments are clearly poor while many people like me and Mr Patoine http://rockureview.com/?p=1220 are agree Clark should be on this list. Thank you come again.--Therein8383 (talk) 23:03, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
Note: The previous post from IP 70.43.99.58 is actually an unlogged comment from User:Therein8383 and not a second contributor.
Note: To keep the flow of comments in sensible order please note that IP 70.43.99.58 (User:User:Therein8383) has since tried to hide his attempt at false consensus building as pointed out in the above comment (done with this edit) by coming back a few days later and blanking his false consensus comment (blanking edit found here) 198.164.219.128 (talk) 21:22, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
Note: Please notice IP 198.164.219.128 has being caught in an edit war on the article. The user has blocked or banned content due to personal feelings, music tastes and use sarcastic language toward other users ([1]), the user has been invited to joined many discussion which has not been able to argument his reason for blocking content. Sources and publications has the authority to edit articles not personal beliefs of users ([ --76.26.24.74 (talk) 17:23, 13 November 2010 (UTC) ])
Please take time to actually read WP;3RR before issuing false accusations. Any edit which helps to improve the article (IE: conforming to the lead in rules) is allowed by Wikipedia. Steve Clark was a Gibson owner. But he was not notable for being a Gibson player. As per the lead in. Please follow the proper rules. This page is governed by rules put in place by the WikiProject Guitarists. If you want to argue your case take tour debate to their talk page. 198.164.219.128 (talk) 21:19, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
Playing a Gibson. And being notable for playing a Gibson are 2 different things. Please read all previous conversation about what constitutes notability for inclusion on this page. 202.20.0.166 (talk) 00:19, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
Did you read what I just wrote above your comment? I already explain with sources why he must be on the list. I have found more arguments and sources than many of the guitarists that are on the current list. --Therein8383 (talk) 16:16, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
http://www.lespaulguide.com/famous-les-paul-players.php

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/document?doc_id=101611

I have explain enough about how notable he is as a gibson player I have never said he just play gibson. If you are lazy enough to ignore the sources do not say "he just play gibson he is not notable" its not for you but it is to me and for many people, that is why you can find those sources on the web. I'm giving you enough sources 3 of them are list of notable players of gibsonn of independent music web sites and the other 3 are even more interesting because they are giving you many descriptions that make Clark meets the lead. This is not a forum bring a discussion with arguments. --Therein8383 (talk) 16:37, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

It is weird Clark is not on the list and for some reason some people do not want him on the list as he is is notable enough to be on the list, there is such many web sources and writting sources to demostrate it, the previous guy therin8383 has basically post many sources which has being ignored, I found this one to add on it. http://www.gibson.com/en-us/Lifestyle/Features/15-Iconic-Les-Paul-Players/ Steve is not iconic as jimmy page or mick ronson as a les paul player but he is for sure notable and distinguish to be on the list. --201.232.132.50 (talk) 16:56, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Steve is still out of this list?

How many haters trolls are banning content from wikipedia? here's even MORE REALIBLE SOURCES:

http://grayhunter.wordpress.com/tag/steve-clark/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25GwOPoiYo8&feature=player_embedded#! "awesome video showing how important were the onfluence of steve playing a gibson, here's Tesla lead guitar.

FACT: His Grave shows him carrying a les paul gibson. http://hardrockhaven.net/online/2010/twenty-years-ago-in-memory-of-steve-clark/

MARIAH CAREY IS A STEVE CLARK FAN TOO! I discovered this interesting piece of information today: ‘One Sweet Day’ Mariah Carey and Boyz II Men This song was inspired by the death of Mariah’s “Guitar Legend,” Def Leppard guitarist Steve Clark, in 1991. While brainstorming with Boyz II Men on a possible collaboration, the diva discovered that the group had written a tribute to their manager who was murdered while they were on tour. Her song plus theirs became “One Sweet Day.” Thanks to a friend who passed on this link where you can read the full article from the Philippine Daily Enquirer. This would quite possibly be a good part of the reason why Mariah decided to do a cover of one of Steve's classic masterpieces "Bringin' On The Heartbreak". The lyrics of Mariah's song "One Sweet Day" are located on the dedication page of this website which had been placed there long before the website owner knew that Mariah was a big fan of Steve. - "One Sweet Day" lyrics by Mariah Carey.

Ross halfin pics make tshirts http://www.djtees.com/tshop/store/listCategoriesAndProducts.asp?idCategory=1906

101 UNSUNG GUITAR HEROES: In the October 2004 issue of UK's Guitarist magazine they have listed a readers poll of 101 Unsing Guitar Heroes and Mr Steve Clark is featured in the list. And rightly so. (Our Clarkie is a God!) Nobody has been allocated a number; it's just a list of 101 names whom I would assume received the most votes. Here's what is said about our Steve: "Unsung as much as a songwriter as a player, the hard-living Clark lent early Leppard some great riffs as well as punchy, economical solos. He tragically died in 1991, aged just 30. Guitarist pick: Pyromania (1983) You say:'Always melodic, and packed with feel and tone. Def Leppard lost their edge when he was gone.' Jonathan Bradbeer" http://www.disarrayonline.com/rockstarzrule.html

http://www.gibson.com/en-us/Lifestyle/Features/top-50-guitar-albums-0727/

http://www.thwfxsports.tk/

THERE IS TOO MANY SOURCES ALREADY TO PUT STEVE CLARK ON THE LIST IF YOU ARE NOT AGREE INSTEAD OF DELETING HIS NAME ON THE LIST WHY DO NOT YOU COME OVER AND HAVE A DISCUSSION WITH FACTS AND SOURCES OF WHY HE SHOULD NOT BE ON THE LIST. --76.26.24.74 (talk) 18:55, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

TODAY USER WIKILBS DELETE STEVE CLARK FROM THE LIST AGAIN IGNORING THE CLAIMS SO I WROTE THIS ON HIS TALK PAGE.

Man you again deleting steve from the list.

Have you at least take a second to see all new sources plus the old ones? I have find written articles by music journalist, articles from the gibson web page itself, a freaking video of freaking frank hannon saying about steve and gibson guitars. The lead is clear: 1) they are musicians with long careers who have a history of faithful Gibson use: checked 2) the particular instrument they used was unique or of historical importance: checked 3) their use of the Gibson model contributed significantly to the popularization of that particular instrument: checked

I have found many sources and explained on the discussion, some people agreed with me, and even I have notice several people tried to include him on the list.

What i really dont understand is people like: Elliot Easton, Matthias Jabs, Daron Malakian, Nikki Sixx, Alex Skolnick and John Sykes (he was supposed to be Steve Clark replacement after his death) are on the list and Steve is not, all they have similar entourage but even still Steve it is much representative as a gibson player.

Many of the names on the list have barely a source some of them haven't even a source like: Chet Atkins, Franny Beecher, Dickey Betts, Mick Box, Clarence "Gatemouth" Brown, Carrie Brownstein, Jack Bruce, Buckethead, Sam Bush, Allen Collins, Reverend Gary Davis, Buck Dharma, Bob Dylan, Elliot Easton, The Edge, John Entwistle, The Everly Brothers, Tal Farlow , Peter Frampton , Ace Frehley, Freddie Green, Peter Green, Dave Grohl, Arlo Guthrie, Woody Guthrie,..... wow ok im tired but all in all you have some famous people here but according to the lead this people should be out of the list too because none of them has sources to back up the inclusion. you have 81 artists on the list without sources and you had not delete them?

Look for me is easy just revert your edit because i have the back up, but then you are going to delete it again so its going to start an edit war which i don't want do, I just want to know and expose all this matter and understand your point of view.

Why don't you have 5 minutes review all the documentation before deleting. Its hard for me keep pushing and find new sources when people like you delete my work in 5 seconds.--76.26.24.74 (talk) 02:31, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

So, I see that there is a huge argument over this issue. To be honet, your bring up a few good points. You have gathered a lot of sources to back yourself up. Which one is the source which states that he ued a discontinued 1983 model? The fact that he seems to have used such a model could be important. Well, while I will not blatantly state that I'm for his induction on this list, you won't find protest from me. Backtable Speak to meconcerning my deeds. 06:44, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
Hi THANKS for join, the links are the following:
http://www.steveclarkguitar.com/STEVECLARKGUITARPyromaniaTourGear.html
http://www.steveclarkguitar.com/STEVECLARKGUITAR-YGAvol3INTERVIEW.html (Young Guitar, April 1984)
http://www.guitar-museum.com/guitar-27941-1982-Gibson-Les-Paul-XR-1-Silverburst
Well there a lot of links pointing to forums, people validating its rarity, you only can find this guitar on ebay nowadays.
I just made a few review on the WP:guitarist this is the segment i said: Anyway I have bring to the table that Steve was also notable for playing during pyromania world tour and appeared on videoclips the extremely rare Gibson XR-1, I swear to god nobody else at least famous has been playing this model. You can see Steve clark playing this guitar on the blockbuster/heavy MTV rotation video "photograph" heres the link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZ5bS3_BCDs.
--76.26.24.74 (talk) 03:17, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Listing Clark as a notable player of the XR-1 would pass the criteria. That model only. But so far no supporting sources for notability pass WP:RS. 198.164.219.128 (talk) 16:25, 25 February 2011 (UTC)


There must be more to this, surely? Def Leppard were one of (if not the) biggest selling rock bands of the 80's, and Steve was an icon for the band during that period. He used many Gibson's in the studio and on stage for two of those huge albums and tours (from '82, '83 until his death in '91 - nine years, about as long as Led Zep were around). I guess playing (almost exclusively) a Gibson on some of the biggest selling rock albums of the decade and during the tours, is not enough. Lets look at the criteria though: - they are musicians with long careers who have a history of faithful Gibson use. Almost a decade with his Gibson's. Check. - the particular instrument they used was unique or of historical importance. Well this seems subjective, but there are others people on the list who used LP Standards, LP Customs. I guess it is good enough for them, so check that one too. - their use of the Gibson model contributed significantly to the popularization of that particular instrument. If this isn't grey, fluffy and subjective I don't know what is, but for an equally fuzzy answer, look on guitar forums. Plenty of people were influenced by Steve, so check that one too. It seems that the criteria fit. Maybe the face doesn't? Heywoodg (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 22:25, 28 February 2011 (UTC).


Thanks for join Heywoodg, So far I have 4 different people besides me agreeing adding Steve to the list. I want to point the following: 1) I do not obsessed with steve but I do respect him, my all time guitar player is Mr Jimmy Page and just like Steve we admired this guy, the reason I have discussing this inclusion is pointing out how convenient are lead ins on some articles, such as some artists on the list dont have any source/reference at all to validate the lead in but anyways they are in and for others it needs extremely ultra picky, super accurate sources like one said "you need to prove gibson sales increased because of Steve" I mean how can you find a source this specific, of course there's others showing notability but pretty hard prove something like this, not just for Steve but any artist. 2) I think the notability IP 198.164.219.128 is saying its already there, not just one source but many of it, I still can find more sources saying how important he was for music in general as far i was concerned the notability for steve clark passed long time ago, the only reference missing was an specific rare guitar played by him. 3) Santana recently played a cover of Def Leppard`s "photograph", I saw (hmm I guess it was November) on comcast channel 411 a show/interview/documentary about this specific record of covers called guitar heaven:The Greatest Guitar Classics of All Time (curious title for a song Steve composed and its is signature), when he was explaining the selection of each song I remember he said something about photograph that not involved 100% steve clark name but in big part (specially for this discussion), he said something like on photograph he challenged the riffs because the original version was very les paul sound driving and he wanted to put some reggae/groovy on the song. BELIEVE ME i have try like crazy find that video but its just impossible, i have always said that video of Frank Hannon talking about Steve/gibson was a lucky shot. Heres another words from the people of Gibson.com about Steve.

-It established the high-gloss, two-guitar attack that would become their signature, featuring original string man Steve Clark’s Gibson Firebirds and Les Paul Standards. “Bringin’ on the Heartbreak” and the title number became early MTV hits. (That sounds to me like gratuitous publicity for their guitars)

-...created a lush, orchestral bed of guitars for singer Joe Elliott’s soaring vocals on “Photograph,” “Foolin’” and other insanely catchy chunks of rock...Clark used a truly impressive array of Gibsons including Les Paul Customs, EDS-1275 double-necks and his Firebirds. (Wow Steve rocking on EDS double neck since early 80s, no other guitarist did that at the time after Jimmy Page, like Frank hannon said Steve was the king of les pauls back there even before slash came out) http://www.gibson.com/en-us/Lifestyle/Features/mutt-lange-0803/

Take it easy. --76.26.24.74 (talk) 01:52, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

en more bizarre, Clapton is on here, despite having as a signature Strat. Not saying he shouldn't be, but how is that somehow *more* fitting with the arbitrary criteria at the top of the page than Steve Clark? How does Clapton having a signature Strat fit in with "they are musicians with long careers who have a history of faithful Gibson use" but Steve Clark doesn't? Truly bizarre, and as I mentioned earlier, arbitrary.Heywoodg (talk) 10:28, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

You're still going on and on about celebrity status and not dealing with the Gibson notability requirement. No one questions celebrity status. So don't keep going on and on and on about it. It has no relevance here. There is a valid argument that Clark is a notable user of the Gibson XR-1. But so far you have not provided any sources to backup your earlier statement that "no other guitarist was as famous for playing the XR-1 as he was". Youtube IS NOT a reliable source see WP:YOUTUBE and WP:EL. You cannot add links to websites which host copyright violating material....which Youtube does in abundance. ALSO you cannot link to the Steve Clark fanboy website. Fansites fail WP:RS. If you can find a valid RS to support Clark's extensive use of the XR-1 plus find a reliable source that supports your claim that he is the most famous XR-1 player...then by all means add him to the list. But do not add him until you find sources that fill the above requirements. And stop using Youtibe and the steveclarkguitar.com sites...they are not allowed. Here's a tip....the best sources come from books. Like book from author Tony Bacon. Or from magazines like Guitar Player. 198.164.219.128 (talk) 14:07, 2 March 2011 (UTC)
As a side note....anyone who questions why Clapton is a notable Gibson player...onviously know nothing about either Clapton...or guitarist in general. 198.164.219.128 (talk) 14:07, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Whoever you are 198.164.219.128, stop with the personal insults please. I didn't question if Clapton was notable, I questioned whether he fit with the "criteria" at the top of the page. But hey, it is obvious that you have an axe to grind here, so well done. You win. Wikipedia loses. Heywoodg (talk) 22:21, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Oh look, an article on Gibson.com about Steve Clark: http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=it&u=http://www.gibson.com/it-it/Stile-di-Vita/Notizie-Rilevanti/Steve-Clark-0128-2011/&ei=r8RuTZ7ICois8APu34zuDg&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CCoQ7gEwAg&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dsite:gibson.com%2B%252B%2522steve%2Bclark%2522%26hl%3Den%26prmd%3Divnso

So notable enough to have an article on Gibson.com mentioning him as a Gibson player (and also specifically the XR-1), but not good enough for Mr. 198.164.219.128 Heywoodg (talk) 22:36, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Gibson.com isn't a reference. It's an advertisment. As I said, I have no issue with Clark being added as a notable XR-1 player. The IP sock for User:Therein8383 has stated no other guitarist is more famous than Clark for playing that model. And that is probably true. But a proper reference for that statement needs to be added. not youtube links or amateur fansites. Real citations. And also; FYI-1, FYI-2, FYI-3, FYI-4, FYI-5, FYI-6, FYI-7....etc....the list goes on and on. 198.164.219.128 (talk) 22:37, 4 March 2011 (UTC)


Yes indeed IP 198.164.219.128 has a really big issue with the inclusion of Clark, if any of you (new reader) are reading the whole discussion you can see IP 198.164.219.128 has said lots of incorrect facts like Steve played a ibanez half of his career, paul kossof influence over clark and that he only played jr les pauls, he clearly do not know nothing about Steve Clark, so when you do not have knowledge to argument something you put it in personal attacks which I consider is merely his opinion but not part of consensus, words like:

- was a mediocre to average guitar player

- no one really cares what guitar he played as his playing had no real impact on anyone.

- he shuffled from one Gibson to another more as a novelty or a choosing whatever looked good with his wardrobe

Its funny how IP 198.164.219.128 contradicted himself everytime saying that he has no problem with the inclusion, even saying he would LOVE to include him on the article. Besides vilified Steve like his only argument is saying all the sources backing up his inclusion are not good enough, for god sake I have showed over 20 different sources (all types, all formats); First you said Gibson sources are "advertising" and should not be considered as a reference but many artist on the article has their references from gibson.com besides you should take a look again they are not advertising anything please read the concept of what advertising is before said a false statement. Second, not allowed youtube references?, that is utterly not true and you are misleading the video I found because that video does not violate any copyright you can use videos as references as long does not violate copyright WP:EL, anyway that video was an annex, a plus, an extra, something visual that supports the fact Steve Clark was indeed notable for playing Gibson and he influenced other guitar players for choosing Gibson as their Axe although I dont understand why you said video references are not valid when a picture speaks thousand words... anyway, and third (this was funny) "amateur" fansites, couldnt you just say Fansite or tribute page or whatever but amateur?.. anyway what I really want to point out is most of the articles on this "tribute page" are backed up by writing sources on each article showing the bibliography, The article referring about the XR-1 is from a 1984 japanese Young guitar magazine. Im curious about what is a valid source for you, you havent contributed nothing on the creation of articles but deleting, Im quite sure if I bring other sources you're going to disqualified them, do you need a new york times source?. AGAIN many of the artist on the article does not even have a source, some of them has gibson.com sources, other its almost laughable the source they have, how come Rich Robinson is on the list and Steve clark its not? even his source its from his webpage.

it does not worth discuss with you anymore because you are not bringing anything new and you keep contradicting every word you say, even I remember you said "If he played a guitar that once belonged to another famous Gibson player would certainly be notable." that make no sense at all, Steve has a Fender guitar Jimmy Page gave him as present and Steve appeared playing this guitar on the Love Bites video clip, so should I go to Fender players article and include him just for that? I dont think so, I think you are not clear about the lead-in and you driving it the whole thing according of what your convenience go.

I really hope discuss with another person besides of IP 198.164.219.128, I really do, someone at least with some knowledge and neutral position.

IP 198.164.219.128 wins Wikipedia lose, SO far 5 people agreed with the induction, Im quite sure there would be a lot more but who is going to came here randomly and see this? we have to believe on the sources and I have posted more than enough already, pretty good ones. --76.26.24.74 (talk) 19:28, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

By the way pretty good source Heywoodg and the source its recent I have not seen it.

http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=it&u=http://www.gibson.com/it-it/Stile-di-Vita/Notizie-Rilevanti/Steve-Clark-0128-2011/&ei=r8RuTZ7ICois8APu34zuDg&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CCoQ7gEwAg&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dsite:gibson.com%2B%252B%2522steve%2Bclark%2522%26hl%3Den%26prmd%3Divnso

Now I really mean when I say IP 198.164.219.128 must HATE steve clark for disqualifying a source like this. --76.26.24.74 (talk) 19:40, 6 March 2011 (UTC)


Heywoodg's link is just a link to the Gibson advert posing as some sort of news item (it isn't) And it doesn't support your statement that "Clark was the most famous XR-1 player" Just find a citation that supports that statement and its an easy addition. And you really need to read WP:AGF or simply not bother trying to contribute here. You have support to add your favorite....you just need to find a reference to support your comment about him being the most famous XR-1 player. Simple as that. 198.164.219.128 (talk) 17:41, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
You need better reading skills or stop assuming things neither Heywoodg, backtable and me have said, I have NEVER said or intent to say Clark was the most famous player of XR-1, you came up with that one for yourself, the lead says being notable for play an specific instrument not the most famous player, when I refer the word famous player indeed I`m referring Clark as a famous guitarist in a multi platinum band, and being recognized for many sources in the music industry, indeed he is famous and he played a rare XR-1 but its pretty bold statement of yours says that I should find something like "Clark was the most famous XR-1 player", does Paul Kossof the most famous player of ES-335?? but hes on the article without the source you are requiring. Ok lets do this I dare you to find another notable guitarist who has play the XR-1, if you can't, you lose simple as that because that will give me the reason he was notable for it (Notable!! not the most famous like your terrible misconception about this matter). Just try out there's no way the XR-1 being associated with Clark...
By the way you are the only one so far against the induction clearly because you hate the idea (Just see your previous comments i summarized for you), at least I have 4 people including me in favor of the inductions, your not the owner of the article and clearly you have not contributed to it so instead of deny sources, create misconceptions of everything you should bring something to really backed up your opposition. --76.26.24.74 (talk) 16:38, 20 March 2011 (UTC)
The only Gibson that Clark can be added as being notable for is the XR-1. But, as has already been pointed out, a reference that supports the claim that he was the most noable for this Les Paul model has to be found before he can be added. And it must be a source that passes WP:RS. Not a steve clark fanpage. 24.87.89.228 (talk) 20:37, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
I don't know why you insist it has to be the MOST notable, he's notable indeed because nobody else had played this rare guitar, that make him somehow notable, but basically what you and the other guy is asking is a new york times source saying in very detail manner he was the Most notable ... this is quite impossible not just for Clark but any of the guitarist that is on the list or any who would like to be added, I just pointed out a random example of..does Paul Kossof the MOST famous player of a gibson ES-335??. (No source, nothing but the article say so without any debating whatsoever) If you search the XR-1 in google or any search engine there is no place that Clark would not be related with this model, just named, photos, articles, forums.... Now regarding the fanpage that was a weak attempt of guy above of blocking the induction, the article about Clark and XR-1 is backed up by a written bibliography which is shown at the end of that source, plus there is an article of Gibson itself confirming XR-1 as Steve axe on Pyromania tour. If you see the video clip of photograph Steve was playing this guitar, how come a video who made Def Leppard famous around the world it cant be take it as notable situation?, would I ever find a source saying this? probably not it is too specific, but any guitar maniac who knows about guitars could see the video and will definitely confirm he was playing this model, Does any other famous guitarist played this model? I could swear nobody, this was a extremely rare model that was around between 81 and 83 and few units were released by gibson like a source I posted above. This guitar can only be find on auctions. It's not fair this induction has been blocked with tons of Buts... by a couple of persons who has not reviewed the 30 different sources not just me but other people posted and the feeling that Steve Clark induction has more merit than most of the people that is on the article right now (Even some without any source how come this could be happen??????)
I just remind you this discussion its going to be public of course this little hidden spot on the big sea of wikipedia its like a grain of sand in the beach but I'm waiting the person, a real guitar maniac, a true gibson lover that after reads some of this "discussion" could make you realize how ridiculous is that list without not just Steve but others that needs to be inducted and other that clearly needs to be deleted or at least being discussed.
Now Stop asking about that I should find a New york times source for the MOST notable, I never said that and the lead does not says the person needs to be the Most famous user, I`m going to find other sources confirming he played this rare model That is enough. Plus Steve Clark already met the 3 points of the lead, I'm taking the rare XR-1 as an extra. --76.26.24.74 (talk) 00:57, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
Yes he meeting the criteria. But only for the XR-1. And the hidden instructions that were placed into the lead back when the list was first expanded to match the Telecaster list was that new additions must have a citation. It was OK for the existing entries to sit and a citation would be eventually added (and they will) because they were all discussed and agreed on by the creators of the list.(who were, the creators of the entire Guitarist Project) So in order to be notable for an XR-1 the citation has to show notablity. Not just that he played one...or owned one. It has to clearly say that he was notable for it. Try Tony Bacon books. They are used a lot on this article and they exceed the requirements of WP:RS. 24.87.89.228 (talk) 01:32, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

I have placed a link for this on the content noticeboard to see if we can get a suitable solution. I don't think the current debate on this page is going to really resolve itself, but hopefully someone not so close to the issue can help? Hope I have not done anything out of turn. Heywoodg 20:34, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

It's fair to get other opinions. But the list follows the rules of Wikipedia. Steve Clark can be added as a notable XR-1 Gibson player. But he needs a citation supporting notability for using that model. The archived discussion at the guitarist project and gibson less paul articles clearly defines why this list was created. If Clark has a reference which supports notability for playing an XR-1 which passes wp:rs than he can be added to the list as a notable XR-1 player. 66.119.180.242 (talk) 21:31, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
Its way to fair have fair opinions but I want to make clear that the article is define by 3 lead in, which Steve Clark already passed, read above for the explanation on each one. For some odd reason it happened that not only has to be notable but the most famous player of an specific gibson design. the lead in does not says that. I have proof with many different sources Facts like:
1)He was a loyal and recognized gibson player
2)He has influenced other musicians to grab a Gibson as his Axe
3)Recognizion of gibson itself and own signaure Firebird SC plus tons of custom models
4)Recognized for play an unique or rare gibson guitar check this link ( http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=it&u=http://www.gibson.com/it-it/Stile-di-Vita/Notizie-Rilevanti/Steve-Clark-0128-2011/&ei=r8RuTZ7ICois8APu34zuDg&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CCoQ7gEwAg&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dsite:gibson.com%2B%252B%2522steve%2Bclark%2522%26hl%3Den%26prmd%3Divnso ) look at the part how gibson itself says the XR-1 was a limited model that Steve Played and you can see him play this guitar in a popular videoclip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZ5bS3_BCDs with heavy rotation on the early 80`s. plus the other source of an interview for a Japanese magazine who the editor itself explain how rare this axe even a that time were.
All facts above are supported for different kind of sources, even the "fansite" shows bibliography of where the article/info was pulled out.
I`m not discussing here Steve Clark was the best guitarist in the planet or something like that, I just consider he should be on the list as a notable gibson player, one of the reason I played Gibson and love this Brand is thanks to Mr Jimmy Page and Steve Clark, surely he has influenced a ton but nobody is coming here to discussed, so that is why sources are for, editors and critics are agree with me, the sources are there, the lead is met, and yes I`m not going to find a New York times source about Steve Clark being the most famous Gisbon player ever, but I (We) have pretty decent sources even way better and more merit that many people in the current article.--76.26.24.74 (talk) 23:17, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

PS : There is another piece of discussion and comments here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Guitarists --76.26.24.74 (talk) 01:03, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

I don't think anyone disputes the addition anymore. There have been at least 10 different people remove him. And even those most adamant against have now followed WP:AGF and allowed inclusion of Clark as an XR-1 player. But only if a citation which clearly supports him as a notable XR-1 player can be found. A quotation from a book or magazine which is published or authored by a reputable and recognised source would be enough. You don't need to prove he played an XR-1. You have to prove he was notable for it. It is quite simple. And shouldn't be hard to find. A link from Gibson.com doesn't count here as it does not support the XR-1. And youtube fails to prove notability. Also see WP:YOUTUBE as far as that link failing Wikipedia standards. You can't link to the site when it is knowingly showing copyright violations. Which Youtube does more than anything else. 24.87.89.228 (talk) 04:43, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

I think some of those who DO dispute it have been driven away in fairness.

Going back to the points on the first page:

  • they are musicians with long careers who have a history of faithful Gibson use.

Check. Certainly more so that others on that list who CLEARLY do not fit (yet are left in for some reason?). Does anyone dispute this?

  • the particular instrument they used was unique or of historical importance.

Check. Steve had his own custom editions of Gibson guitars, and I don't see how this can be disputed either.

  • their use of the Gibson model contributed significantly to the popularization of that particular instrument.

Check. This is the ONLY point that I can see any reasonable discussion on, but then it is such a grey area anyway. How do you measure it? I know several people who picked up a LP because of Steve Clark (including myself), but I don't see how this can be effectively enforced EITHER WAY because there is no clear defined logical standard way of measuring it.

So of the three points listed, Steve passes two, and the third one cannot be measured, so you could argue that Steve passes this just as much as most of this list.

So why is he not on there? I see lots of strawman arguments about the XR-1, but going by the criteria on the page, this is not actually a requirement at all. Therefore, Steve Clark should be on the page. Unless someone can refute my response to those three points, it really seems "as simple as that". Heywoodg 10:21, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

He's not there because a proper citation supporting notability can be found. References for usage. But not references supporting 'notability of use." There is a difference. As a guitar player he was average. But he was a major celebrity with a lot of exposure playing a Gibson guitar. Which couldn't hurt Gibson. But didn't result in Gibson creating a signature model or even a tribute model. The Therein8383 IP sock keeps re-posting links which cannot be used. If he would just find a reference that could be used then Clark could be added as an XR-1 player and this endless debate over a marginal entry would be over and done with. 198.164.219.128 (talk) 16:53, 3 April 2011 (UTC)
Thanks 198.164.219.128. You claim that there needs to be a "citation supporting notability". Which of the points at the top of the article is that exactly? I addressed the three points in my previous post, so rather than going on about the XR-1, can you please explain which of those three points does not apply to Clark, and why? I though point 3 would be the only slightly debatable point here but you as you said yourself, "he was a major celebrity with a lot of exposure playing a Gibson guitar" which seems to wrap that up too doesn't it? Heywoodg 17:26, 3 April 2011 (UTC)
Another guitarist influenced by Steve Clark, http://mykisslife.net/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=124373&sid=25c3e705590aa0f065e9f70b5b55d3d8. I am not sure how many references you feel you need 198.164.219.128, but as with this and the one posted earlier from youtube (and if you read the WP:YOUTUBE piece, you will see that there is no blanket ban on youtube), then I will add Steve back into the list. If anyone has any objection (and none has been raised since my last comment here), please, lets discuss it here rather than turning it into an edit war. Heywoodg 21:32, 6 April 2011 (UTC)
It's a fanboy question. But he does name stave clerk in his reply. Not sure what it has to do with a Gibson notability list. What is a "Steve Clark style of playing." Most guitarists just call it rhythm guitar. Got another link to clarify what it means. And what it means to Gibson? 198.164.219.128 (talk) 17:46, 7 April 2011 (UTC)
? "Tommy: Good observation on my guitar style, I do come from a Steve Clark style of playing, I love earlier DEF LEPPARD". Seems like another pretty strong mention of Steve Clark's influence and notability there to me. Are there any of the actual three criteria (mentioned on the article page and here in the discussion) which you actually disagree with? Otherwise, we are not really getting anywhere here. Heywoodg 18:17, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

Zeta Bosio

Zeta is notable, why? because it was the bassist for Soda Stereo, what is soda stereo? Soda Stereo is the most important band of Latin rock. They are not known in the U.S. or England, does not mean that they are not important. You do not discriminate on the language, it does not matter. I have no references in the English language, because obviously, they are not American or English, and do not play in the English language. The notable not just only are the British and Americans. The notable not just only are the British and Americans. Sorry if I wrote something wrong, I don't know well the English language.

He plays a Gibson. But is not notable for it. References must prove notability. Not just ownership. 198.164.219.128 (talk) 11:31, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

Ritchie Blackmore

Blackmore plays Gibson ES-335 before Fireball album, 1968-1971 at least. Proof photo: http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/500/36446161/Deep+Purple.jpg" 86.57.151.125 (talk) 11:12, 9 April 2011 (UTC) lazy

As per the article criteria. Playing one/owning one doesn't make one notable for doing so. Blackmore is a notable Stratocaster player. And is rightly placed on that list. 156.34.88.66 (talk) 20:02, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

Jimmy McCulloch

According to Jimmy McCulloch's page, he used a Gibson SG, and I have verified it by watching footage from Rockshow. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jefe619 (talk • contribs) 11:07, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

photo gallery?

One editor said that there were already enough photos in the body of the article. But how about having a photo gallery at the end? Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 02:41, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

Copying text from the Gibson EDS page for possible consideration as an add here

Very loosely falls in with the page criteria for notability for use (main instrument for a career matches... albeit... did it matter) Its worth discussion:

[[Charlie Whitney]] used a 1966 EDS-1275 throughout his career with [[Family (band)|Family]],<ref>{{cite book|last=Bacon|first=Tony|coauthors=Dave Burrluck, Paul Day, Michael Wright|title=Electric Guitars: The Illustrated Encyclopedia|publisher=Thunder Bay Press |year=2000 |pages=1925 |isbn=9781571452818 |accessdate=3 March 2010}}</ref> helping to popularize the instrument.<ref>{{cite book|last=Carter|first=Walter|title=The Gibson Electric Guitar Book: Seventy Years of Classic Guitars|publisher=Hal Leonard|year=2007|pages=74|isbn=9780879308957|url=http://books.google.com/books?id=p5f2rT3kUscC&pg=PT74|accessdate=3 March 2010}}</ref>

Thoughts?? Mr Pyles (talk) 08:43, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

References

adding sig. The text is pasted over including the ref and "nowiki" script is used so that editors can see the 'RAW' entry including the reference to determine if it is strong enough. The ref meets WP:RS (all Tony Bacon books do.... they are excellent guitar resources) But as an addition to this page I feel the text should be expanded to show that using such a bizarre instrument as a main guitar for an entire career is really a notable point to make. The guitarist himself isn't notable... but that is only part of the reason the list exists. The reall aim of the list is to point out the specific "notable" Gibsons that a guitarist used... AND prove that their use of that Gibson was also notable. IE... the recent addition that Steve Clark used a Firebird.... isn't worth mentioning... there is ample comment on this talk page that the only thing he is notable for is the XR-1 and that is supposed to be the only guitar mentioned for him. Mr Pyles (talk) 08:43, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
Actually Steve was one of the only famous 80s guitarists to use a double neck Gibson. Also he is supported by sources for his other guitars even when other guitarists need citation. His Les Pauls were custom built as were his Firebirds as well. So he should stay. --Jamcad01 (talk) 10:23, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Bernard Sumner

Why is he in the edit page but not the actual article? Is it still a debate of importance? He was the guitarist for one the most important post-punk bands, then lead one of the most important dance-rock bands of all time. In Joy Division he used an SG and in New Order FOUR other models! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.191.175.156 (talk) 06:07, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 September 2014

Claudio Sanchez only uses his white Gibson EDS-1275 for one song which is Welcome Home he uses a 72 reissue korina explorer a lot more often referenced here [1] a quick google image search will show much more images of the korina explorer 50.73.196.97 (talk) 18:48, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ http://i.imgur.com/l6nxjt6.jpg
Please provide "Live" links to your sources, all these, except the image, are no good. Mlpearc (open channel) 18:56, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
Not done for now: per Mlpearc — LeoFrank  Talk 16:19, 26 September 2014 (UTC)

Greg Sage

Greg Sage used a left handed Gibson SG Special as his main guitar in the influential punk rock band Wipers.

Felixv (talk) 20:16, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 19 January 2015

Hello,

Please consider adding Nicolae "Nicu" Covaci (romanian rock singer, leader of 52 years-old band "Transsylvania Phoenix") as he is using a Gibson Les Paul Artisan 3 pick-ups series VII among other guitars. Some pictures with him playing the Gibson are to be found on the Wikipedia page dedicated to him (https://ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicu_Covaci).

Thank you.

Calin.pirlog (talk) 09:01, 19 January 2015 (UTC)

Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template.  B E C K Y S A Y L E S  17:28, 19 January 2015 (UTC)

Freddie Green removed.

Wikipedia's page on Green mentions his "signature Stromberg" guitar, and what looks like a well-researched web site dedicated to Green says he mostly played Strombergs and Epiphones (...and these are pre-Gibson Epis, of course...) PaulCHebert (talk) 13:12, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

Johnny Winter is now dead

In the Article, "List of Gibson Players" it says Johnny Winters plays one. He is dead, so it should say "played" one. For some reason I'm unable to make the edit myself.

 Already done Another user had corrected this already. You cannot edit the page because it is semi-protected, which means that only autoconfirmed users can edit the page. Joseph2302 (talk) 02:05, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

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