Talk:List of Ukrainian Americans

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Andy Warhol[edit]

Ghirla asked elsewhere whether Andy Warhol should be added here. I'm not sure: was he born in the USA or Europe? Were his parents from the territory of modern Ukraine or Slovakia? (I presume they were Austro-Hungarian Ruthenian immigrants to the USA) Do any Ukrainians or Ukrainian groups claim him as their own?

If it is a debatable fact, then I would include him, along with a note indicating his Rusyn background, and leave the question of whether Rusyn is Ukrainian for discussion elsewhere. —Michael Z. 2006-02-28 00:21 Z

Quoting from "Andy Warhol 1928-1987: Commerce into Art (Basic Art)" [1]:
  • "Forest City, Pennsylvania, the son of miner and construction worker Ondrej Warhola and his wife Julia. In 1912 his father had emigrated from Czechoslovakia to the United States, his wife following nine years later."

JackO'Lantern 00:25, 28 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Funny thing to read in a book revised in 2001. There was no Czechoslovakia before 1918, nor after 1993—I suspect they came from the Austro-Hungarian province of Carpathian Ruthenia, which is currently divided between Slovakia and Ukraine.
If Ondrej was an uneducated labourer, he would may have referred to himself as a Rusyn, and not had much political awareness, including issues of what is Rusyn vs. Ukrainian. Andy Warhol may not have cared much either. —Michael Z. 2006-02-28 02:19 Z
Come to think of it, any Ukrainian immigrant from Austro-Hungary would have had "Ruthenian" on his passport. I say include AW on this list, pending any evidence that he doesn't belong. —Michael Z. 2006-02-28 02:57 Z
Here is that evidence:(especially the last part)
  • "coal mines, so I never saw him very much. My mother would read to me in her thick Czechoslovakian accent as best she could... all I can remember, really, are the long walks to school, through the Czech ghetto with the babushkas and overalls on the clotheslines, in McKeesport , Pennsylvania" [2]
  • "And I guess maybe I'm not really Czech, because I didn't understand it when they were talking. " [3]
  • But here's something more in depth: "It was in such a village of wooden cottages and dirt streets, hidden in the heavily forested mountain slopes, called Mikova, that Andy's parents were born: his father, Ondrej (Andrew) Warhola, on November 28, 1886; his mother, Julia Zavacky, on November 17, 1892. Like 90 percent of the Ruthenians, the Warholas and Zavackys were farmers and shepherds, working the ... Indeed, the Ruthenians were obsessed with eggs... According to several members of the Zavacky family, one of Julia's grandmothers was Jewish. This was highly unusual in a part of the world where anti-Semitism was almost built into the social structure. Every village had its one Jewish family, who collected the landlord's share of the peasants' produce... When Odrej was eighteen or nineteen, he left for America, probably walking across Europe to a port like Hamburg or Amsterdam, like tens of thousands of other Ruthenian boys. In fact, by the turn of the century, The Ruthenian emigration was so over-whelming that the sagging Austro-Hungarian empire was worried about the dangerous depopulation of this border province. Two or three years later, in 1909, Ondrej was back in Mikova, rich by Ruthenian standards, from woking in the coal mines of Pennsylvania. Blond, muscular, and handsome, he proposed to Julia. Years later, in a 1966 Esquire interview she did behind Andy's back....Most Ruthenian-americans seem to define their nationality in engatives: "We're not Polish. We're not Hungarian. We're not Slovak. We're not Ukrainian." When I asked the Warhola brothers what nationality they considered themselves when they were growing up, John without hesitation said, "Always Slovak." [4]

JackO'Lantern 03:10, 28 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

A difficult case. Mainly because this is currently a political football field for discussion.
There is a museum dedicated to him in the COUNTRY of Slovakia, and it is from this part of the world that his forefathers come from. When his forefathers left this area it was part of Austria-Hungary. It changed hands numerous times.
However in Slovakia there is a sizable group of people - a mini ethnic group who associate themselves with the Rusyns, Lemkos, Rusnaks and sometimes Ukrainian. They have been kicked around a lot. They speak a dialect of Ukrainian ie an eastern Slavic language which is different from the Western Slavic language of Slovak. Ukraine has only had its independence for some 17 years. It was divided up between its neighbours. Its political borders do not correspond with the ethnic borders of where the Ukrainians live. Currently it doesn't include this enclave. The people in his enclave use a version of Eastern Slavonic which has included many aspects of their neighbours primarilly Polish, Hungarian and Slovak. In recent times there has been a movement to develope a seperate ethnic identity for these people. Thus the conflict between a Rusyn/ Ukrainian identity.
In my opinion he was ETHNICALLY a Rusyn-Ukrainian. Definitely more Rusyn than Ukrainian. He attended a Greek-Catholic Church and paid for his brother to complete studies in a Ukrainian Greek Catholic Seminary and become a priest. He is buried in a Ukrainian Greek-Catholic cemetery. He was very pious and regularly attended a Ukrainian Greek-Catholic church in New York.
Recently Paul Magocsi published an interesting book - People without a name - detailing the plight of the Rusyns who were stuck between a Ukrainian, a Russian, a Slovak, a Hungarian-Rus, a Lemko identity and how this process of ethnic and national identity is developing and also how it has been manipulated. Ultimately however - he was an American.--Bandurist 13:29, 3 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

All Ukrainians are Rusyns (Ruthenians) per definition. Name "Ukrainians" was created as replacement for "Rusyn" by a group of Rusyn inteligencia because they were aware that Muscovy which changed name to "Russia" (latin name of Rus) is misleading Ruthenian population as well as foreign nations into believing that Muscovites have anything to do with former state of Rus (in latin known as "RVSSIA") and that Moscow tzars are prime succesors of rulling class of Rus and that Muscovites are "the most civilized and advanced Ruthenians" (when in fact Muscovites in present time known as Russians mostly descend from Finno-Ugric tribes wih Turkic admixtures also their culture is prety distant from modern Ukrainians and Belorusians, Moscow itself had very loose ties to core territories of Rus and interactions with them was mostly centred around conducting wars and pillage against Rus). Muscovites were so succesfull in their propaganda among uneducated Ruthenians that Ruthenian inteligencia feared total assimilation of Ruthenian into Muscovite populus as they were using twisted version of hisory of former state of Rus as integral part of the process of Russification of Ruthenians. Therefore idea to switch to name "Ukrainians" to differentiate themselves from Russians (Muscovites) was born. It took well into middle of 20th century for that name to catch up among whole Ukrainian population of present day Ukrainian country territory. Even parents of well known leader of Organization of Ukrainian Nationalist Stepan Bandera were still calling themselves "Ruthenians". It's worth noting that "Karpathian Rusyns separatism" historically speaking started to emerge in circles that were tied to "Moscalophilia" movement that originated around end of 19th century and existed in strong form up to around the end of First World War - member of that movement who were ethnic Ruthenians were followers of ideology that Karpathian Ruthenians are core part of Russian (Muscovite) ethnic group. That movement had support of Russian government of the time who has using it as a great tool of Russification to extend Moscows influence in Austria Hungary. When after Bolshevik Revolution support cased they transformed into group that was separating themselves from the rest of Ruthenians including nearest neighbors like Hutzuls and Boykos. So the question of "Are Ruthenians Ukrainians" is akin to "Are Muscovites Russians" as in both cases we see same process of changing the name of self identification. In case of Muscovites it was initiated by despote rulling class as a mean of building their ideology of imperialism and in case of Ruthenians by inteligencia as a mean of avoiding cultural and linguistic assimilation into cuturally and linguistically alien ethnos of Muscovites. SlavonicEditor (talk) 11:59, 21 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Ethnicity lists discussion[edit]

Please see discussion at Wikipedia:Village pump (policy) for current discussion of a potential policy to apply to all ethnicity lists on Wikipedia, including this one. JackO'Lantern 20:50, 11 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Sources[edit]

I have sourced the list in accordance with Wikipedia's No Original Research and Verifiability policies. Basically, anyone described by a reliable source as "Ukrainian" or "Ukrainian-American" (i.e. as opposed to "of Ukrainian descent", "Ukrainian mother", etc.) is on the list. Here are the people I couldn't find anything for. If you have a reliable source that fits that please restore the names:

*Dorian Rudnytsky - cellist and composer

Mad Jack O'Lantern 08:18, 19 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Dorian Rudnytsky - his mother is soprano Maria Sokil, father is Ukrainian and American composer Antin Rudnytsky (see Maria Sokil)--Yakudza 23:54, 4 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Archipenko was born in Ukraine, and lived in America. Why is he excluded?--tufkaa 05:47, 6 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This is all I could find on him.[5][6] I am not sure if the article is even notable, and I couldn't find any actual sources, aside from Wikipedia, on this guy Mad Jack 20:11, 10 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

So I put him back on. (BTW, his article whould really be expanded.)--tufkaa 21:02, 10 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, that was a good source you added. I guess the confusion stemmed from hte fact that he was listed under his full name (i.e. middle name) while most web sites didn't use it. Mad Jack 21:08, 10 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

New division of people on the list.[edit]

Hello, I have divided the list into sections. Each section of the list would include all the Ukrainian American with a particular profession and within each section, in addition, people would be sorted alphabetically; as in other lists of Americans by ethnicity. This facilitates finding people on the list. --Isinbill (talk) 22:02, 16 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Leonard Bernstein[edit]

Leonard Bernstein was blacklisted; but he was not one of the Hollywood 10. See this reference in the 'Encyclopedia Britannica': https://www.britannica.com/topic/Hollywood-Ten Dogru144 (talk) 01:14, 3 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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