Talk:List of World War II films

Help Required

Hey guys any help would be fantastic. I also refer to developing stronger restrictions. --Spud85 14:16, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Are war films that came out during the war purposely left off this list (or in other words, why does the list start in 1946?) MikeBriggs 13:21, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

I just add some films to the list, and i was thinking about two films from Russian director Aleksandr Sokurov : The Sun and Moloch.

Also, Spud85, i'm ready for any help you need ! I think MikeBriggs bring an interesting question about adding the films that were made during the war. --Kakihara2046 15:13, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

I've started on the war time films, in table format. Eventually I think the whole thing should go to table, but not quite yet. I have tried to be discrminating in what I list, excluding spy films, documenties, shorts, and cartoons, and leaving it to feature narritive films. OK with ya'll?--Dudeman5685 04:39, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

What to leave in, what to exclude?

I getting into a bit of a crisis of conscience as to what to include under films made during the war. I had already said that I would exclude spy films, or things that do not directly concern the war, however the line is difficult to draw. On the one hand films made during the war, but not technically speaking, "war" films include things like Caseblanca or Rosie the Riveter, which have a degree of artistic and historical value, even though they are about spies or the Home Front.

On th other, I don't want somebody adding Indiana Jones to the list on this basis. Perhaps it would be better to create another list for movies made during the war?--Dudeman5685 19:18, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

- You did a very good job, Dudeman ! Adding the films made during the war is in a way "our duty" =) In my opinion, this page has to list all the films related to World War II (made during and after the war), including :

Adding links to the movie

I have added links to an actual copy of the actual film where they are available, as a convenient way of people accessing it.

- "pure" war films - films about the causes and the consequences of the war (like Germania anno zero) - films related to an important personnality of the war - films about the Holocaust - spy / resistance films

I don't totally agree with this part of your contribution : " Excludes non-fictional documenteries, shorts and animation. " There are animation films who are strongly related to war (Hotaru no haka, or Der Fuehrer's Face during the war) and who should be considered "films" too! Also, non-fictional documentaries could be interesting .. but maybe in another section (List of WW2 related footages ?) I agree that the Indiana Jones have not really something to do with the war .. It's quite difficult to define in which category each film need to be put, and if they really belong to this section. If you want to discuss which films you want to put or to erase, let's go !^^ --Kakihara2046 15:12, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

I've been considering creating a seperate category for "official" Allied propaganda films made in WW2. Of course many Hollywood movies from that period are propaganda, but I think that the ones commission by government and semi-governmental agencies (Why We Fight, Your Job in Germany etc.) are sufficiatly disticnt to have list of their own.

Possibly other categories that could have their own list: Holocaust films (a large genre, but a good, narrow definition); films depicting the Third Reich (Swing Kids, Sound of Music).

Not sure were to put animated films.--70.112.236.174 20:33, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

I add some directors' names on the 50's films, and i made a table for the 60's films. Very good work done for the others films !

How can we define movies like Where Eagles dare or The dirty dozen ? Spy movies ? Something like " British and American infiltration on Germany" or "Operations behind enemy lines" ?

Also, i don't know how to put all the dates (1960s : 1960-1961-1962..) in one group, with the little "+" and the Javascript code. It would be more presentable !

About the categories, there're all on this page > [1]

The best thing will be to merge all the categories together : a link to this page (List of World War II films) on the Category of World War II films, then erasing all the films listed on the page. I wanted to do it, but i don't know how to edit the page ..

And for the animated films, i put them on the same level of "real snapshots" films, so i think we can put them into the list too. --Kakihara2046 15:12, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm not quite sure what you mean about the "categories" perhaps there was a miscomunication. I beleive we should keep the wiki categories as they are; but I think at least two seperate new lists shuld be created: Official Allied Propaganda films and Holocaust films. These two are distict enough to be put on a seperate list.

I have frankly come to the conclusion that most spy films should probably get on THIS list, as the intelligence war and resistence were inseperable component of the war itself.

Lastly: I blelieve that full length animated films, like Mometaros Devine Sea Warriors, should be put on this page, but shorts like "Der Fuhrers Face" and "Private Snafu" should get their own page as those also form a disticnt genre.Thanks for your kind words and help on this page--Dudeman5685 01:11, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

I've begun the prelimenries for the official alleid propaganda here List of Allied Propaganda Films of World War 2, and I'll start another one for the Holocaust films eventually, once that is done.--Dudeman5685 04:55, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Three possible additions to the list are Hope_and_Glory, Empire_of_the_Sun and Merry_Christmas,_Mr._Lawrence The first is set in blitz era london, the second two are set in WW2 detention camps.Mark1512 00:48, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Documentaries like Sinimäed and especially Surnupealuu Sõdurid contain many played scenes, is it right to exclude them? Then we should delete also non-fictional documentaries like The Lion Has Wings. DJ Sturm (talk) 19:57, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Hi DJ Sturm,

I did delete your Estonian films because the IMDb has them classified as "Documentary". Estonia is probably like Canada; we have a lot of docs with dramatized scenes too. Over at List of films based on war books, I mark any films that are in that category with a †, and I normally only include them if there are no "real" films on the same topic.

Now, it is certainly possible that Estonian history is like Canadian history, namely, it is either a dramatized documentary or nothing.

But I like the fact that this list here is only fully dramatized feature films. No shorts, no cartoons, no documentaries.

Maybe this page should have a separate list at the bottom for important dramatized documentaries.

But if someone from the United States wants to start listing their films in this category, then we should probably just have another page. We should call it List of World War II dramatized documentaries and you should have the honour of creating it, and adding your movies to it.

That's my opinion.

Varlaam (talk) 05:16, 18 July 2009 (UTC) (in Toronto)

Added Flags

I added the flags of the respective countries of origin for the films discussed. No real reason, just thought it would add a little color.--Dudeman5685 01:19, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Ionly used the Olympic flags because they were the only place I knew were to get them. I might have to use them again for the correct WWII era Italian flag, with the Savoy shield.--Dudeman5685 20:39, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

The Eagle has Landed

Why was 1976's "The Eagle has Landed" excluded from this list? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.171.240.63 (talk) 14:22, 14 May 2007 (UTC).

Is Paris Burning ?

I was looking at the list you introduced and I thought the Flag idea is great. Despite the fact that most of the movies introduced are american, the idea of creating such a list if very good. There is however something bugging me : why French movies are forgotten so much ? What about all the Clement's movies (even if one is close to propaganda), Melville's movies, Costa-Gavras, Ophuls, Malle ? There are a lot of movies about the second world war in French movie's history and I am a bit surprised that almost none are introduced in this article. If you need some help, I would be glad to participate.

The Purple Heart

I believe that the 1944 film The Purple Heart should be on this list. --72.90.130.253 (talk) 01:18, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Indiana Jones

This article is profoundly hypocritical if the "Indiana Jones" films (Raiders & Last Crusade) are not included here while so many other films of an utterly fictional nature have made it in. Just have a critical look for yourself. Lifeboat? The Guns of Navarone? Von Ryan's Express? Where Eagles Dare? Kelly's Heroes? The Eagle Has Landed? Return to Never Land? Hart's War? Casablanca? I could just go on and on. While these films are indeed wonderful films, they are ultimately just as fictional as any of the Indiana Jones films and have just as much to do the actual real war as Indie does. Ultimately most are just action films which have WWII as a backdrop. Indiana Jones is the same thing. My suggestion is to either start scrutinizing this list more, or accept any and all films that have some connection to WWII and be done with it. I quote from the article, "Below is an incomplete list of full-length films to feature or partly feature events of World War II in the narrative.", according to that vague terminology, why would any of the films I have previously listed deserve acceptance, but not "Indie"? You can't exclude "Raiders" or "Last Crusade", and keep "Guns of Navarone", "Where Eagles Dare", and "Kelly's Heroes". If you can make an argument against that statement, I'd like to hear it. Trippz (talk) 17:00, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm a big fan of Indy, but none of his movies actually take place during the war itself. The others that are fictional, Lifeboat, The Guns of Navarone, do take place during the war. While fictional they portrayl actual event. The Indiana Jones movies, though they feature Nazis looking for rare artifacts, some what like the Ahnenerbe, do not portray many real historic events, and none of them during the war itself. I did not write the current quote "Below is an incomplete list of full-length films to feature or partly feature events of World War II in the narrative." though I did write a distict ancestor a few years ago.--Dudeman5685 (talk) 16:44, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

I have to disagree with you. Tough equally as fictional as the other films, they do in fact take place during the lead-up to the war (pre 1939, but still related in the same way as other films listed here), in fact Indy has his book signed by Hitler at one point. No historical events in Indy? Same could be said about Navarone, Kelly's Heroes (a favorite of mine), The Dirty Dozen. Actually when you think about the premise of The Dirty Dozen it is equally as absurd as Raiders, if not more so. And what is the premise of Kelly's Heroes? A group of treasure seeking adventurers battle Nazis during WWII. Strangely, thats precisely how you could describe Indiana Jones as well. What I'm saying is, once you start becoming selective because you see Indy as simply an action adventure film, you are missing that it does have WWII as a backdrop. What about "The English Patient", doesn't really much to do with the war, but its the major backdrop. This list is full of titles that could be ripped apart if we apply the same selection process that is currently being applied to "Raiders" and "Crusade". Obviously "Temple of Doom" and "Crystal Skull" don't have a place. Basically, as I said, if the list is to be scrutinized, it should be scrutinized fairly. Sadly, that is going to mean this list will be greatly reduced. You could make an argument to split the list out into "Fictional Portrayals" vs. "Non-Fictional Portrayal", but I don't know if its necessary. If you want to eliminate pre-1939 period pieces (even though related to WWII) then perhaps we should put that disclaimer in the article. Just an idea. Trippz (talk) 01:45, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

It has never occurred to me to think of Raiders as a WWII film. Because of the tone and the obvious, overwhelming fantasy elements.

But, when presented with the same issue over at List of films based on war books, I created "What If" sections after the major wars. So when the Russian Revolution spread to the Moon, that movie goes into What If.

For WWII, I have titles like the The Keep and Boys From Brazil over there. I haven't looked here to see how those titles get handled here.

Maybe this list needs a separate What If section, or maybe it's easier just to have a big "What If" label pinned to the titles in the list with fantasy elements. So Raiders would be listed with a "What If" (or equivalent) label on it.

Varlaam (talk) 16:54, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

The reasoning here is bizarre. It's not exactly a trivial detail that the Jones films, though they involve Nazis, take place several years before World War II; in fact, it's essential to the plot that they not take place in wartime. "Films about World War II" is not the same category as "Films with Nazis in them". And why do we need a 'disclaimer' that "pre-1939 period" films are not included? World War II started in 1939 (or, at earliest, 1937, and that just for the Chinese theatre). If it doesn't take place at least partially during the war, then it's obviously not a war film. RandomCritic (talk) 19:35, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

50-star US flag

The page is using the Alaska-Hawaii flag on films which predate that period.
Not noticeable at this scale, but if someone clicks on the icon ...

Varlaam (talk) 17:31, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Years

I notice that They Were Not Divided appears in this article in the 1949 'Year' section. In the film's article it states 'March, 1950'. Does 'Year' refer to the year or years of production (the latter might be more relevant to recent films), or the year of first release, or something slse? RASAM (talk) 22:09, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

The IMDb defined a current standard for this in the 1990s, by settling on year of release. There has always been trouble in this area; the IMDb finally had to come down on one side or the other as the central data repository. Yes, this is a problem for films which never see the light of day. Unreleased films end up labelled with intended year of release for a long time.

So, for films in production, this year will be in the future.

There is occasional disagreement between sources on this detail however.

You also have the problem of festival screenings vs. general release vs. early release in non-originating countries. The IMDb favours the earliest date regardless. So it is conceivable that 1949 is a festival, and 1950 is a general release. But that was less common then than now.

It's difficult to make a final determination without really getting into it.

As a former IMDb researcher, I tend to think of that number as a range that is plus or minus 1. Historically, some IMDb dates could be off by 5 or 10 years since a researcher was forced to estimate. These discrepancies have probably been largely rectified over time however.

Varlaam (talk) 18:16, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

The Great Dictator

Shouldn't The Great Dictator be here ? I think it's clearly a World War II film. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.144.88.43 (talk) 21:06, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

Documentaries

I think we should have a similar list for documentaries about WWII. I'll start one soon at List of World War II documentary films; feel free too contribute. Jmj713 (talk) 14:18, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

Estonian films which aren't (yet)

The page has a number of pre-1991 films marked Estonia,
when those of course are Soviet films made in the Estonian SSR.
This page is not the place to rewrite the history of the 20th century.
Varlaam (talk) 17:06, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Corrected. Varlaam (talk) 23:31, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

Short films?

Why can't there be a companion page for List of World War II short films,
for Blitz Wolf, and Donald Duck, and Japoteurs, and Russian Rhapsody,
and Bugs Bunny Nips the Nips?
Varlaam (talk) 17:45, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

And my favourite, Nimbus libéré, with its Allied collateral damage?

Varlaam (talk) 17:52, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

I would like to see someone start this page right now: List of World War II short films

Employ the same table structure that this page uses.

Varlaam (talk) 16:43, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

Dudeman5685, up above, argues in favour of a short film list, and that was back in October 2006!

So somebody who does not already have a lot of pages to manage should just start that list.

Doesn't everybody want to know about the singing Canadian short with sexy CWACs in it? Of course you do.

Varlaam (talk) 16:53, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

Go ahead and do it. Jmj713 (talk) 18:14, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

Ok, guys, go crazy.

I have happily resurrected Blitz Wolf which I was reluctantly forced to put before a firing squad last week.

Varlaam (talk) 19:52, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

But I am not the Editor/monitor/guardian/supervisor/Mum and Dad of this page.

I already have a dozen film lists.

Varlaam (talk) 19:55, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

TV series

Possibly World War II-inspired TV series are not listed anywhere at present. The British, the Americans, the Russians, they've all made them. Maybe other countries too. There's an Iranian one I've seen.
Rat Patrol was one of my favourite shows when I was a kid, with its token Commonwealth character.
I personally would be reluctant to find further reasons to expand the current list.
I am thinking in terms of an independent list, List of World War II TV series.
What say you?
Varlaam (talk) 17:17, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

This list currently includes McHale's Navy since apparently no one noticed that it is not a film.

Varlaam (talk) 15:59, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

In lieu of a distinct page, I have set up a distinct table at the end of the page. Varlaam (talk) 17:31, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

Illustrations

Adding a picture to this article is a great suggestion.
All those with free images, one pace forward.
I have now added the only free image I can find.
Varlaam (talk) 21:00, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

List of World War I films needs some love

Hi there, I just stumbled across the article List of World War I films and it's somewhat lacking... in that it currently lists one film. All Quiet on the Western Front... Passchendaele... There. This discussion page is now twice as useful as the actual article. It's not an area where I have any particular expertise, but I assume there's someone out there who might be able to lend a hand. Thanks. Gpollock (talk) 20:23, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Anyone who is interested, please feel free to raid my World War I page in List of films based on war books.

I have a personal rule about not working on two independent lists on the same topic, however I am violating my own rule by working on this list right here. But I don't intend to break my rule again.

Varlaam (talk) 17:07, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, I resisted working on this page for a year or so.

But it was chaotic over here after Dudeman stopped working on it.

I wish some other practised editor had worked on this page, not me.

Hopefully that other WWI page will have high standards from the very beginning, and, more importantly, someone who will be around on a regular basis to maintain those standards, whatever they happen to be.

Varlaam (talk) (weary of the politics at Wikipedia)

North Korea

I have read that there are lots of films of Korean Communists fighting the Japanese, but the list has none so far.
Varlaam (talk) 11:08, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

Links to Movie at the Internet Archive

The Internet Archive has a number of these movies on their site, that are in the public domain. I have added the links where this is the case, as a convenient way of people seeing the actual movie. Seemed to make more sense than making another list, and what better can you add to a description of a movie than the easy ability to actually see it for yourself! Deathlibrarian (talk) 09:36, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

Clutter.

All, or virtually all, of those links are already available on the main pages for the films in question. Those are a random assortment of films which accidentally fell into the public domain.

This page is not a substitute for hundreds of detailed film articles.

This page is an index.

When I created the companion short films list, I created it with offsite film links.

But I did that in the knowledge that the short films page is a short one — didn't I write that page in, like, a day? — and that the majority of films on that page are available for viewing at YouTube, or somewhere else.

That page is not a precedent for this page.

I have been deleting Internet Archive links as I have been working on the more serious film title and sortability problems.

Varlaam (talk) 17:22, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

Compromise solution.

The ref <ref name=IA/> in the Battles column tells the reader to refer to the main film page.

I have started using this approach at Hillybilly Blitzkrieg (1942).

Varlaam (talk) 17:36, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

The Reader

I would like to bring up consideration of the 2008 film The Reader for removal from this list. Despite my love for the film, it does not meet the criteria for a WWII film. No part of the movie, at any time, takes place during the years of the war. The only connection to WWII is Kate Winslet's character's trial in the middle of the film. Also, there are some thematic elements that concern World War II, but other than that, this doesn't feel much like a World War II film. Removal? I'm open to any discussion on the issue… Tron55555 (talk) 12:28, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

Isn't The Reader about a death camp guard?

I checked. It is.

Its other theme is Germany's acknowledgement of its past. That's a very relevant issue, since the former East Germany never did any soul searching, since they declared themselves to all be good Communists with no need for introspection. The Austrians declared themselves to be the first victims of Nazism so they never examined their own past. And the Japanese continue to wallow in whining self-pity over Nagasaki whilst never acknowledging, down to this very day, their unending string of atrocities. Hirohito was not executed as a war criminal as he should have been. Japan should be a republic now, just as Italy is with its disgraced monarchy.

And I am writing that as a Canadian monarchist.

The Reader and its themes seem relevant to me.

Varlaam (talk) 17:00, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

Brevity: no "Plot" section

This page is intended to be brief. It is intended to be an index to other articles with full detail.
This page does not have a "Plot" column.
It has a "Battles, campaigns, events depicted" column.
This page is supposed to read:

Battle of Stalingrad

If it says:

Film depicting the Battle of Stalingrad

or

Soldiers fighting at the Battle of Stalingrad during World War II

neither of those adds anything, other than verbiage.
Both can simply read:

Battle of Stalingrad

This page is reductionist in order to be manageable. This page is currently 10 times the optimum size of a Wikipedia page.

If you want to provide a lot more information, then please add it to the existing full article, or create any missing article.

Thanks, Varlaam (talk) 16:44, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

Missing content for this page

As I noted somewhere above, there are said to be North Korean WWII films. They are said to be propaganda, but there are supposed to be lots of them.

As of today, there are no Bulgarian language films and only 3 in Hungarian. I imagine there must be more than that, right?

As we have seen in recent months on this page, the Filipinos made lots and lots of WWII films, but their visibility in Anglophonia has historically been low. Is there another country like that? What about Thailand? Did the Burmese make movies?

An unresolved issue mentioned above somewhere is the dramatized documentary and what to do about them. Countries with smaller budgets, like mine, tend to make them. How should they be handled?

• their own list page
• section on this page
• section on documentary page
• merged into general content on this page

They can be of feature length but they don't have the characterizations or sets you expect from a "movie" and they stop the action for an interview with a veteran who was there. It's like merging the documentary interviews at the end of Band of Brothers into the main episodes of the series, and then shooting the episodes with a single actor on a darkened soundstage.
Varlaam (talk) 18:21, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

The Israelis have never made anything in Hebrew? About the Jewish Legion?

The Iranians have never made anything about living within Allied zones of occupation?

Varlaam (talk)

The Lead section states: this is an incomplete list of fictional feature films... It's incomplete. Even if one editor devoted his whole time to just this article, I don't know that it would ever be complete. People add films as they can. When it comes to "dramatized documentary", I think, what is the emphasis, the drama or the documentary? Many dramatizations have gone on the list, but no straight documentaries. Boneyard90 (talk) 21:21, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

"Incomplete list". Well, it has said that for years since it really and truly was.

There are not an infinite no. of English language films still to add at this time.

My point was to look at breadth now, as opposed to depth.

I am more interested in something Bulgarian, than in another cheap B picture by Monogram that no one remembers.

If you have not seen a dramatized documentary, then maybe it's hard to describe them. I tried to indicate the flavour of them up above.

Possibly YouTube has excerpts which would give people a better idea of their style.

They are documentary -- narrator or on-camera presenter, interviews, archive footage -- but then sections will be performed by actors in costume playing characters of limited depth, given the nature of the form. But an actor's lines are more likely to come from someone's diary or letters, in keeping with the documentary form.

Varlaam (talk) 18:52, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

I just happen to have noticed that there are no Belgian films until a couple of co-productions in 2006.

Surely that can't be all there is?

Varlaam (talk) 07:23, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

Dramatized documentary

An example of this genre that many readers of this page may have seen would be The Road to Guantanamo. It's a documentary, which includes interviews with the three principals involved, but then there are re-enactments where (younger) actors play the three principals.
Varlaam (talk) 19:19, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

The new disambiguation links tag

I agree that that tag is accurate.
But I think this page should move in the direction of fewer links, rather than resolving the ambiguous ones.
I don't think this page should be linking things like:

• Nazi
• Hitler

and so on, simply given the nature of the page.
There are a lot of links here to Occupation of Country Name.
Do we want to have a section at the top of the page which just gives a list of common subjects frequently mentioned on the page, like:

• Occupation of Poland

Then we don't have to be constantly linking that, and making mistakes when we link it.
Varlaam (talk) 19:04, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

This page definitely needs to be re-evaluated

The crux of the matter is that the definition of "World War 2" movie is too elastic: "feature films or miniseries which feature events of World War II in the narrative."
I would argue that, at the moment, this article breaches Wikipedia guidelines by being largely a product of original research. For that reason, we're constantly running into the problem of whether or not a film meets the criteria.
So, I suggest we define the genre, "World War 2 film" by a specific term used elsewhere by a respected organisation or organizations, as is the purpose of Wikipedia. The truth is, there's probably unlikely to be consensus on this matter either, and frankly I'm beginning to feel that a list such as this may not even have a genuine place on Wikipedia. But I'm getting ahead of myself…
Here's what I propose: we first of all determine a list of reliable organisations who may have already defined the term, "World War 2 film". If those organisations have, using this definition, already formed a list of films, these should form the primary content of this article. If a list is not provided but a "tag" is provided allowing the forming of such a list, this should form the secondary content of this article.
That seems like a pretty good foundation - agreed?
Edrarsoric (talk) 10:55, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

Are you being facetious?

Newbies should not be pontificating on the basis of some vaguely understood Wikipedia rule.

"We" are "constantly" running into trouble? Since when?

Who are you talking about? You have never made a contribution to this page.

Have you looked at every other film list page in English Wikipedia?

Have you checked the equivalent pages in every other language? Is there some big discrepancy?

Have you noticed that everything on this page also belongs to Category:World War II films?

If you are actually saying anything, it is that you think, in your opinion held by no one else, that the opening sentence should be rephrased. So what do you propose that is so much better?

Varlaam (talk) 07:20, 26 April 2012 (UTC) (Master Editor III)

This is a very good and needful article, and I've contributed to it in the past, but we need to think of a way of reducing the size. It's way too big, I think. Jmj713 (talk) 18:23, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

Absolutely, I agree. That has been part of my efforts in the past several weeks.

Rationalize, and cut the fluff, then see what we have.

Right now, my own edits need to be modest. I normally get a Wikimedia error when I post, and maybe 15% of the time I edit this page, it logs me off.

Anyway, I created the SF/horror section to be separated at some point.

When I wrote the book-based war films page, it got really really big.

So I split it. Into nine pieces. I think it's nine, plus the index, makes ten.

But I had a chronological and thematic basis for making those decisions. Even then the split points were not super simple.

But on this page ...

I think we're looking at an arbitrary chronological split:

War years (to 1950)

When I was a kid (to 1980)

"Modern" (everything else)

Do you have a great idea?

To some extent, naturally, these films are reflective of their zeitgeist.

So MASH was not about Korea; it was about something a little more relevant to 1970.

Similarly, these films could reflect a Cold War stance. Russkies bad; Germans and Japanese, our guys now. Rommel was actually a hero the whole time.

Certainly in the East Bloc films, it's Communism saving the world from Fascism. Western films always treated the Japanese with Cold War-era kid gloves. (They're so cute, with their bowing, and giant hot tubs.) We demonized the Germans, but not the at-least-as-deserving Japanese, and Hirohito was not hanged, the bastard.

So that would be:

To 1950

To 1990

Since 1990.

How 'bout that then, eh? Varlaam (talk) 19:01, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

The other trick with a page split:

Which bit gets the page log? Which section is the core section?

Varlaam (talk) 19:18, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

I think one good way to reduce the size would be to excise the description of each film. I don't think it's necessary. A user can always go to the film's article to see what it's about. Jmj713 (talk) 19:37, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

What do you think about this suggestion, Varlaam? Jmj713 (talk) 17:25, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

I strongly disagree there.

When I first started developing the List of films based on war books page, there were 100 or 110 films there covering every war in history.

World War II was a single table with Europe and Asia mixed together. Army, navy, air force in a big jumble.

I then subdivided that into Theatre, Campaign, Battle, and theme, so you had some sense of what you were dealing with.

It's the same issue here; same material presented differently.

A chronological block of film titles tells you nothing.

I never use a page like List of horror films. Why? It's just a chronological listing of film titles. It tells me that The Face of Marble stars John Carradine. So? Carradine can be good or bad, depending on the picture.

That is all the information it has. That page is only an index, and that title is a redlink. The page is not entertaining or interesting to read in its own right.

Those pages are boring and always have been.

I am better off going to the IMDb and doing a directed search for horror films. Then I get an index, and every indexed item will be a page. I planned a List of films based on horror books page years ago. I have data; I never created the page.

With our page here, a young person can learn a lot about the war without ever leaving the page. There are operational code names that I first heard of here on this page, and I'm old enough to have been worried about going to fight in Vietnam.

I like the summaries a lot. I keep them short if there is a main page. If there is no other page, then they can be a little longer.

I know from personal experience that a lot of information exists but not in English. So this is a place where someone who reads German, Russian, Polish, Danish, Chinese, Japanese, Tagalog and so on can give an English speaker some useful basic information. We don't need to wait for someone to create a full page to get our little plot summary.

I think the real solution is to break the page into pieces.

Horror films, Cowboy films, those pages subdivide by decade. Films by nationality also go by decade. I personally like a bigger page than that.

I plan to make a split at the end of the Cold War.

Once the Cold War ends, all of the principal antagonists of World War II become friendlier with one another, and that affects their retrospective looks back at the war. Art reflects life.

Varlaam (talk) 05:48, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

Yes, splitting it into two or more articles would probably be best. Jmj713 (talk) 16:22, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

Bulgarian film

Found one, apparently. bg:Черните ангели.
Black Angels, my translation of the Bulgarian.
How did I find this? Easy. It's listed on the Russian version of this page.
It's still necessary to confirm the subject matter, but you've got a Bulgarian text, and a Russian text, to read over.
(And an IMDb link, if you want.)
Varlaam (talk) 18:18, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

The first this ... the first that

Our References section right now is full of claims like that.
I personally think those are interesting, if true. I added none of those statements.
Those need citations before a deletionist who thinks every uncited statement is a lie arrives and starts deleting them.
If the main pages for these films also make these claims, then the main pages require citations as well.
Varlaam (talk) 17:16, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

Conventions on alphabetical ordering

I will state the conventions I have been using to sort this page, since there are many readers who are not native speakers, or alphabetizers, of English.

1. Spaces between words are ignored (some people follow the opposite convention and that is acceptable elsewhere)
2. Punctuation, most often the apostrophe, is ignored
3. Upper and lower case are treated as the same

Rules 1, 2, and 3 together mean that Don Gabriel sorts before Don't ... because G precedes T.

4. Leading indefinite and definite articles are ignored, viz., "a", "an", "the"
5. Abbreviations are expanded, e.g., St. sorts as Saint (or Street), Dr. as Doctor
6. Numerals are treated as words, e.g., 633 sorts as Six Three Three (when it is the name of a squadron)

Other considerations:

7. Mc and Mac

This page does not have this as an issue, so no convention has been established for this case. The issue is, Does McHale precede or follow Mackenzie? Older people – like me – say McHale precedes here, since H precedes K.

Before the creation of two columns for titles, an existing issue was how to handle foreign language leading articles, like "Le" (French) or "Der" (German). No convention has been established in the Original Language column.

In cases where a foreign language article has been naturalized as English, e.g., Das Boot, then that article becomes a normal English word, so Das Boot sorts as D, not B.

Did I explain this matter reasonably? Varlaam (talk) 17:46, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

I have been deploying the Sort template in contentious cases, to make it clearer how the sort is intended to work.

Varlaam (talk)

Spam

There seems to be some kind of spam on this page. In three "original title" boxes (for the movies Mother of Mine (2005), Beyond the Front Line (2004) and All Things Fair) there is a shocking animated gif that doesn't have it's place at all in this page. I don't know how to remove it, could someone please do it? Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.178.195.182 (talk) 11:56, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

I strongly suspect you have a virus, old son.

This page has no animated elements.

Around 9 June, the activity was from the usual contributors.

Varlaam (talk) 16:33, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

Lots of films still unlisted

I have had a cursory look over my copy of Halliwell's Film Guide, 1981. In the U's, I found these:

• Uncensored
• Uncertain Glory
• Under Your Hat
• Underground (1970)
• Unpublished Story
• Up from the Beach
• Up in Arms

The only one I have ever seen is Up in Arms, with Danny Kaye.
The list has a long way to go. Varlaam (talk) 16:09, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

WorldCat Genres

Hello, I'm working with OCLC, and we are algorithmically generating data about different Genres, like notable Authors, Book, Movies, Subjects, Characters and Places. We have determined that this Wikipedia page has a close affintity to our detected Genere of war-films. It might be useful to look at [2] for more information. Thanks. Maximilianklein (talk) 00:01, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

Films made during the Sino-Japanese War

In case anyone is wondering, Sons and Daughters in a Time of Storm (traditional: 風雲兒女; simplified: 风云儿女; pinyin: Fēngyǔn érnǔ) is the anti-Japanese film featuring March of the Volunteers (traditional: 義勇軍進行曲; simplified: 义勇军进行曲; pinyin: Yìyǒngjūn Jìnxíngqǔ), the patriotic song from China's War Against Japan, which became the national anthem of the People's Republic of China in 1949. However, the film itself was released in 1935, two years before the war officially began, and the plot of the film actually refers to Chinese resistance against Japanese control over the international settlement in Shanghai at the time. Other films from this period, such as Street Angel (1937) (traditional: 馬路天使; simplified: 马路天使; pinyin: Mǎlù Tiānshǐ) also highlight Japanese aggression against China or the effect of this aggression has on Chinese civilians.

The Chinese film industry produced almost no films about the Chinese war effort during the war itself, as most Chinese cities, including most of Shanghai, were under Japanese occupation by 1938. Nevertheless, the Chinese did produce a few films such as Princess Iron Fan (1941) (simplified: 铁扇公主; traditional: 鐵扇公主; pinyin: Tiěshàn Gōngzhǔ), which used stories from Chinese history and mythology to celebrate resistance against foreign aggression, but without directly mentioning the Japanese.

winstonho0805 (talk) 14:38, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

Soviet/Russian

Soviet/Russians alone crap out 400 films on WW2 http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A1%D0%BF%D0%B8%D1%81%D0%BE%D0%BA_%D1%84%D0%B8%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%BC%D0%BE%D0%B2_%D0%BE_%D0%92%D1%82%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B9_%D0%BC%D0%B8%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B9_%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B9%D0%BD%D0%B5 It's like the most important thing, teh Holy War Священна явойна.

Russians and WW2 is worse than jews with their holocost (only 150 films). Actually, it's the Soviet who created the whole mythology, gave the impulse to the whole damned thing. --184.161.152.198 (talk) 20:45, 29 December 2013 (UTC)