Talk:List of air forces/Archive 1

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Archive 1

Notes

Note regarding spelling of "defense" or "defence" in Japan's Self Defense Forces: The official Web site [1] has links to all three services. The Maritime SDF uses "defence"; the Air uses "defense" and the Ground uses only the acronym. So, I changed the spelling for Air SDF and left the other two as they were. 222.3.94.166 10:43, 22 Jun 2004 (UTC)

That is simply an artifact/artefact of where the translator learned their English. As time goes on, the use of American English seems to be growing more the norm, but here in Wikipedia it's best just to be consistent one way or the other. Askari Mark | Talk 22:52, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

broken internal link

The site linked to Fiji under former airforces makes no mention of them. (If anyone wishes to fix it, my memory is the french gave them Aerospatiale Puma).130.216.191.183 02:22, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Palestinian Air Force

does anybody have info about the palestinian air force called "Force 14" ?

"Force 14" was al-Fatah's aviation unit, which was chiefly responsible for shuttling Arafat wherever he needed to go. Under the PNA, it has been succeeded by the Aerial Police (Shurta al-Jawiya). Last I checked, it had 5 Russian helicopters (2 Mi-8 and 3 Mi-17) which are used mainly as VIP transports, rather than police work. I suspect few, if any, remain operational. Palestine as yet has no formally established military air force. Askari Mark | Talk 18:07, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Issues related to the changeover to the new table format

When I originally converted the "F" section to the new table format, I'd placed the 1945 roundel in a separate line. Necessary Evil has recently moved it to the "Notes" section. While there is nothing basically wrong with it, we should probably discuss the best way to handle these cases since it will come up repeatedly, (in the "G's" for instance).

Another related issue is how to handle predecessor organizations and their associated material. In the list format this was easily handled with indentation, which would be awkward (though not impossible) to handle in the table format. For the moment I've just put them in the "Notes" section, but I don't find this satisfactory. Any thoughts? Askari Mark (Talk) 03:10, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

I also had problems with the "O" table, where the OECS entry has "broken" the standard spacing. It's the only one where I had to directly link the country flag and name (as there is no .svg example in Commons), but I'm not sure whether it was this or simply the length of the name which caused the problem. Askari Mark (Talk)
My instinct is also not to push the historical services and their roundels into the Notes column; in fact, here, where I've been experimenting with these issues, I reckon the Notes column is unnecessary, at least until there are many more notes to fill it. Whatever solution is found, I suspect the code for each row will become more involved, so I reckon a {{LOAF entry}} template might help retain some sanity (and remove much redundancy). Meanwhile, though, I'm not sure whether some along the lines of the page linked above or maybe even consigning the historical services to footnotes or a separate section might work better... Yours, David Kernow (talk) 08:14, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

RCAF

I've moved the RCAF roundel to the current column, as the Canadian military continues to use it (although mainly in low-visibility grey). While the RCAF existed until the 1968 "unification" with the army and navy, it adopted the current roundel (based on Canada's then new flag) in 1965. Prior to that, it used a roundel with a leaf based on the silver maple.User:Snd3054 04:30, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Changes to list contents needed to remedy slow loading?

As we get more and more wikilink coding to support table formatting, flags, roundels, and article links, this page is getting increasingly longer to load. I think we're approaching a decision point on how to handle the matter and there are several options — some of which we might need to elevate to WP:Air:

  1. Break up the list into multiple pages covering smaller alphabetical ranges of the country tables, such as has been done with List of aircraft.
  2. Discontinue inclusion of roundel images, and move them to the most appropriate article for each country's military.
  3. Discontinue inclusion of roundels and of historical force names & establishment dates, transferring them as a table to the relevant country military branch article.
  4. Remove flag icons altogether as unnecessary.
  5. Move roundels to a separate "List of air force roundels" and increase the size of the roundel images so they can be better seen.

These options aren't all mutually exclusive. For instance, there's a lot of discussion right now about the proper usage of flags. Frankly, I think that here they provide some welcome relief from eye fatigue, which is all too common with long, drab, colorless lists; nonetheless, they provide no other useful purpose that I can see.

Personally, for a "List of air forces", I don't see much reason for including the roundels here; they would seem to be better suited for the relevant articles on each country's air arms. In particular, capturing their changes over time complicates the coding for the info tables. The list of historical force names and establishment dates seems suitable and informative for this particular list, although I think this info should also appear (with roundels) in the "native" articles.

If this list were to be formatted to include country name (possibly including country flag), names of air arms and establishment dates (with additional lines for previous names and the dates of their usage), I think this list would appear a lot cleaner and the page faster loading — whether a multi-page list is used or not. Moreover, the same general format could be used for a separate "List of air force roundels", if one is so desired. The only template coding change needed would be to replace the formation date field with a roundel image field. (However, I would recommend increasing the size of the roundels so they can be better seen. Thoughts, suggestions or scathing denunciations? Askari Mark (Talk) 01:00, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

I'd suggest going with (1). IMHO the roundels are essential - historical ones could be 'dumped' from the main page, but retention of the current roundels* should be done at anynearly any cost.
(* - Even those roundels that are not round. ;-) )
- Aerobird Target locked - Fox One! 02:34, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

A list like:

would be very boring - and pointless. I vote for Askari's (1) --Necessary Evil 10:24, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

I think this list is to complex for what really is just a look up list to find the article of interest. I would suggest restricting the list to current air forces only (perhaps split of former air forces to a separate list). So you would just have table with three columns (country / roundel / service name), so no flags, no dates, just a simple table with the roundels to add a bit of colour/color.MilborneOne 12:25, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

I've added a fifth option which was discussed in my commentary, but not made explicit. Askari Mark (Talk) 14:39, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
  • I think I'd go for...
  1. Move the historical info elsewhere (and link to it);
  2. Remove the flags;
  3. Move the roundels to their own list;

...in that order. After step 3, however, the list would've become text-only. Perhaps MilborneOne's suggestion is the way forward...?  Regards, David Kernow (talk) 17:01, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Missing countries

I noticed that Burma/Myanmar was not on the list...? - Aerobird Target locked - Fox One! 05:22, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Feel free to add it. I don't think anyone has yet gone through it to make sure it's comprehensive. It's a "TBD someday" task for me. Askari Mark (Talk) 00:43, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Imperial Russia

Could somebody double check the insignia for Imperial Russia? The colours are the correct ones, but I'm not sure about the order of them. Valentinian T / C 19:50, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Serbian Air Force roundels

I removed both predecessor roundels because they're incorrect, according to Flags of the World. I'm also unsure about the 2006 roundel being displayed. As I understand it, the roundel introduced in 2006 was the so-called "Pepsi roundel".[2] Could someone with better knowledge please verify and provide correct versions? Thanks, Askari Mark (Talk) 22:19, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Other extinct air forces

I lack skill to add these, but would mention the Royal Laotian Air Force, existing from ca 1965 through 1975. Actually, this existed in 2 iterations. Mark I flew T6 Texans and C47s, and went into exile in Thailand after they attempted a coup in 1966 and failed. Mark II was equipped with T28s, C47s, AC47s, and U17s. Their national roundel was the same as that of Thailand, the erawan or three-headed elephant. The RLAF flew until the communist victory in 1975. At least some of the pilots continued to fly for about two more years, until the communists had trained their replacements.

Another extinct Air Force, about which I know little, is the Khmer Air Force, existing until the communist victory there in 1975.

I know about the RLAF because I served as an adviser to them for 18 months. Some of my fellow advisers went on to advise the KAF.

````George J. Dorner, 7 September 2008, 2243 hours PST```` —Preceding unsigned comment added by Georgejdorner (talk • contribs) 05:47, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

New russian star.

On March 20, 2009 Russian Parliament adopted new tricolour star for Russian AF airships.

79.139.42.50 (talk) 08:11, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

Air Tigers

I've changed the entry for the Air Tigers under Sri Lanka to read Air Tigers (Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam) as opposed to (Tamil Terrorist Air Force). Regardless of what one thinks of them, that is their officially stated name. This is of course assuming the Air Tigers exist! I'm not one to assume bad faith - indeed I wouldn't be surprised if the Tigers had an Air Force, given the existence of the Sea Tigers... but I've never heard of them and it WOULD be unusual for a rebel group to have an established air force. So, I've marked it as uncited until someone can verify their existence. Jumbo Snails 23:28, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Actually, it's not as unusual as people think. For a while, the UNITA rebels in Angola were flying MiGs against the national government! I don't know if the LTTE has a formal air force as such, but they are known to operate a few lightplanes like Cessnas or something. Askari Mark | Talk 00:34, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

The Air Tigers have been removed from this list, why?--208.102.210.163 (talk) 00:45, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Never mind I added it (I am the same person as 208.102.210.163 and added the airforce as 189.62.209.115)--189.121.183.72 (talk) 02:27, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
It has been removed again.--189.102.200.171 (talk) 19:48, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Equatorial Guinea Air Force's roundel

Hi, I can't find the roundel of Equatorial Guinea's air force in the list and the Commons Category:Roundels. Can you make this roundel?

I think this is not too different like the Kuwait AF (see the pict. on right). Maybe the point on the center is (?light)blue...

Here is some pictures from the Air Force planes: [3]

And maybe (or sure) the roundel colours than their flag: [4]

Thanks for your help.

Regards, 80.98.116.199 (talk) 23:05, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Hi, I make this roundel and load it in the Commons. I think its good, i use the flags colours. --80.98.116.199 (talk) 03:39, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Military Corps of the Sovereign Military Order of Malta

See Sovereign_Military_Order_of_Malta#Military_Aircraft. Could there be an addition here?--189.33.40.151 (talk) 23:11, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

(I am the same person) Well, they do have a roundel: http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/smom.html#round
The air force, if not the roundel, needs to be added for sure.--189.33.10.60 (talk) 01:37, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Somaliland

See Military_of_Somaliland#Air_Defense_Forces. Possible roundel here: [5]. Somaliland should be added, but only after at least the official name of the air force can be confirmed.--189.62.170.155 (talk) 16:10, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

Iraqi roundel, Russian star

Two issues, first, Iraq doesn't have a roundel anymore - there's been a discussion on the Talk:Iraqi Air Force talk page about the image used here - which, aside from the issues discussed there about it, isn't actually used on any aircraft, instead their insigia currently seem to only consist of the national flag.

As for the Russian star, it seems the "Tricolour Star" is now official as the national "roundel", so perhaps ye olde Red Star should be replaced by it in the main table now? - The Bushranger (talk) 18:18, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with File:BSF Emblem.png

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  • FUR has been added to the image file following a check to confirm that the insignia is in fact in use as a "roundel" on Border Security Force aircraft - it is. I'm assuming that the image is in fact copyrighted despite it being the insignia of an Indian governmental agency? - The Bushranger One ping only 22:59, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

File:Roundel of the Sri Lankan Air Force.svg Nominated for Deletion

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File:Roundel of the Estonian Air Force 1920.svg Nominated for Deletion

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Libyan Air Force

Hi, is the sequence of Libyan Air Forces names and links of them correct? The older Free Libyan Air Force status is Active March 2011-present but on the top of they's cella the Libyan Air Force (1951–2011) is above, Established 2011-current date. Something is wrong is it? (how can be it's status 2011-current date if ended on 2011?) --86.101.141.68 (talk) 09:37, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

CAP seperate from USAF?

The Civil Air Patrol is listed as a Civilian Auxiliary to the USAF, while coordinated and receiving funding from, is largely independent. In a similar manner, the Marines is under the Department of Navy, it is still an independent branch, making use of some Navy equipment. It also sports its own emblem: http://www.wpclipart.com/armed_services/shields_badges/Civil_Air_Patrol_USAF_Auxiliary_(color).png

Flightsoffancy (talk) 19:00, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

The CAP was initially a part of the War Department under the the jurisdiction of the Army Air Corps (USAAC), which became the USAAF. In 1946 it became a non-profit organization and in 1948 became an auxiliary of the USAF. When it became a non-profit, it ceased all military activity, something its charter no longer allows so isn't comparable to the Marine corps and since then its members remain civilians not normally covered by the Uniform Code of Military Justice. It may be more comparable to the British Air Training Corps and Canadian Royal Canadian Air Cadets. The USAF's role is primarily that of support (ie - providing military facilities).NiD.29 (talk) 00:12, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

Missing roundels

Still missing RNZAF fern roundels (white, gold and green ferns inset into red of previous roundel), Peoples Republic of Georgia (black cross on white field, with rounded ends and curved crossbar), historical Latvian National Guard (vertically aligned cross fichee on white field), Don republic (blue triangle on white field, point up), Pakistan Naval Air Arm (anchor in standard roundel), Thailand WW2 (red rectangle with elephant symbol)... NiD.29 (talk) 16:05, 27 November 2012 (UTC)

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Coast Guard roundel

Please provide a citation if you decide to change the roundel of the USCG to its racing stripesGaruda28 (talk) 18:20, 28 May 2017 (UTC)

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Paramilitary organizations

Paramilitary organizations (defined as not-part of the Armed Forces) should not be allowed. This page is for military air forces. Perhaps another page would be better suited for them? Garuda28 (talk) 02:19, 15 March 2018 (UTC)

Turkish air force

Why exactly does it say the Turkish air force was founded in 1920? Is this an attempt to make Turkey's air force appear less historic than it is? I am not sure. If that is the case, then what is your argument? That the air force we know today was not founded in the Ottoman Empire? Because the way it is shown is that Turkey had founded its air force during the Ottoman Empire in 1920, but this is of the Ankara Government. That is completely false. There was an air force before that and this one was also founded during the days of the empire. The Ottoman Aviation Squads was the official air force of Turkey. I will include this date as part of Turkey since all the other countries like Germany which dates back 4 different states and both east and west, the empire, nazi reich, weimar republic and so on... so why do we put the Turkish air force as 1920... obvious attempt to make Turkey look less historic. I know how this works. I will put it back to 1911 since by the logic of you editors that is right, Germany and other countries are the same here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Georgepodros (talk • contribs) 18:52, 8 February 2019 (UTC)

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