Talk:List of busiest city airport systems by passenger traffic

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There are problems in defining city airport system[edit]

one airport outside a certain city boundary could be serving that city. It is arguable that the airports in London only serve people travelling to London. And the people who are using Hong Kong airport might will travel to Shenzhen. The distance between Shenzhen and Hong Kong airport might be shorter than the distance between Stansted and Gatwick, although Shenzhen and Hong Kong airports are defined as in two cities, and the London airports are defined in one city? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Awvsaw (talk • contribs) 11:34, 16 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hong Kong and Shenzhen are divided by a border. You'll need a Chinese visa to travel from the HK airport to the one in Shenzhen. -Zanhe (talk) 21:51, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Zanhe : That's political, not physical. Awvsaw is right in my opinion.--Loup Solitaire 81 (talk) 23:02, 21 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Although visa is required to pass the border, but if the Shenzhen residents buy tickets from Hong Kong International Airport and fly to other worldwide destinations, they don't need a visa in order to get into Hong Kong. It is very popular and it is called "fly via Hong Kong" (Jing Gang Fei). Shenzhen Airport is also increasingly been used by Hong Kong residents to reach to mainland cities, and it is called "fly via Shenzhen" (Jing Shen Fei). It is a truth that Shenzhen and Hong Kong are served by both airports. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.201.125.216 (talk) 19:02, 20 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

More inconsistencies[edit]

The list has other distortions and inconsistencies, and criteria should be more clearly defined. For example, it lists Campo de Marte in São Paulo, which is a strictly general aviation airport and has not had any commercial traffic since the 1930s. Guaymaral Airfield in Bogotá is also only a general aviation airport, yet it is included. If they are included, so should be Biggin Hill and Northolt for London, Le Bourget for Paris, or Teterboro for New York, for example. (I'm just pointing an inconsistency, not suggesting their inclusion. In my opinion, general aviation-only airports should be excluded instead.)

In terms of distance, if Hahn qualifies even at 120 km from Frankfurt (although it does advertise itself as "Frankfurt-Hahn"), then Rotterdam should qualify for Amsterdam, Antwerp for Brussels, Basel-EuroAirport and Sankt Gallen-Altenrhein for Zürich, Hamilton for Toronto, Ibaraki for Tokyo, Ras al Khaimah for Dubai, and Toledo for Detroit - all of which have regularly scheduled commercial passenger flights and are closer to the respective large cities than Hahn from Frankfurt.

Finally, if the existence of an airport or a cluster of two or more commercial airports within a certain distance (which?) adding up to a large number of airline passengers is the definition of an "airport system", then Düsseldorf/Cologne should be on the list, as the two cities are only 39 km apart (much closer than San Francisco and San Jose, for example, which are two major cities considered parts of the same "airport system"), and Düsseldorf and Cologne/Bonn airports together had about 32 million passengers in 2015, which would put that "airport system" around the 55th place on the list (which currently lists 70 "airport systems") - not even counting the traffic in Weeze, Dortmund, and Maastricht, which are all closer to Düsseldorf and Cologne than Hahn from Frankfurt.

A serious discussion about definite criteria for inclusion and characterizing an "airport system" should already have happened and its decisions implemented (and the criteria posted in the article text, not only in the talk page). What is missing for it to happen? --UrsoBR (talk) 10:50, 2 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Reliable sources, to be honest. The 2010 and 2012 charts are based on reliable sources, but even there the criteria for which airports are included for each system is questionable. Now, it could be argued that the lists should include all airports with commercial flights within the metropolitan area as defined by the relevant census bureau or other government statistics agency. But the definitions of metro areas are so widely varied that it becomes an apples to oranges comparison. I think the lists may be fundamentally flawed, alas. oknazevad (talk) 15:27, 2 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Merger with World's busiest airports by passenger traffic[edit]

A lot of the information here is dated and has significant overlap with World's busiest airports by passenger traffic. I suggest a merger or the incorporation of this article within that article. President Rhapsody (talk) 20:36, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This list was actually created after several requests were made on Talk:World's busiest airports by passenger traffic. This list ranks cities (combining data from multiple airports within the same metro area), whereas World's busiest airports by passenger traffic ranks individual airports. I don't see any natural way to merge the two lists. The information here is one year behind, not terribly dated. -Zanhe (talk) 21:49, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

2011 update[edit]

2011 :

  1. London : 133,709,327
  2. New York : 109,410,194
  3. Atlanta : 92,389,023
  4. Paris : 91,787,421
  5. Tokyo : 90,331,739
  6. Chicago : 85,674,166
  7. Los Angeles : 82,311,935
  8. Beijing : 81,319,111
  9. Shanghai : 74,560,172

(Hong Kong - Shenzhen : 81,559,951)

Tokyo is the only one dropping due to tsunami event (but it should reach 100m in 2012)

Jakarta's second airport[edit]

I think Jakarta's second airport, Halim Perdanakusuma Airport, should be included. It is just a small airport with several destinations, but still it would be part of the Jakarta airport system. --84.86.233.241 (talk) 15:47, 28 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

2012 Statistics[edit]

I have created an updated version with 2012 numbers. They are largely based on Airports Council International's preliminary full-year figures for the Top 30 airports in the world, [1] and the Top 50 airports in the US [2] </references> Additional information for minor airports is referred in the table. I have made some changes for the cities. -- Dubai -- I have included Sharjah (SHJ). Sharjah is about 10 miles (15 km) from DXB airport itself. Some of the airports considered to be "metro areas" are much further. --São Paulo -- I haven't included Campo de Marte (a private aviation field) and São José dos Campos which is hardly Sao Paulo metro area (Azul flies SJK-VCP). --Hong Kong -- I haven't included Shenzhen (nor Macau) since they are independent territories. --Barcelona -- I haven't included Sabadell (a private aviation field) and Lleida-Alguaire, which is hardly Barcelona metro area (Vueling used to fly BCN-ILD). — Preceding unsigned comment added by FlyingOurMemories (talk • contribs) 22:36, 29 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ 2012 Passenger Traffic (Preliminary)
  2. ^ www.aci-na.org/sites/default/files/2011-top-50-na-airports.xls

New Section[edit]

European Union (EU) passengers should be removed from London airports data since the British isles are part of the EU. These passengers should not be considered international. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.155.136.222 (talk) 19:29, 19 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

These charts list all passengers, domestic and international, so it's irrelevant whether the passenger is EU or not. oknazevad (talk) 19:47, 11 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

From 2010 to 2012 : why not 2011 ?![edit]

From 2010 to 2012 : why not 2011 ?! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Loup Solitaire 81 (talk • contribs) 00:46, 24 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

In sufficient data, I would think. Bu then again, some of this data is not of obvious sourcing and is questionably arranged. See my comment below. oknazevad (talk)

Bradley as Boston?[edit]

What criteria are being used to determine which airports count for a given city? Because I really must question the inclusion of Hartford's Bradley International Airport as a Boston airport; the place is almost as close to New York as Boston, and isn't used for travelers to either city, as far as I can tell. Perhaps Worcester Regional Airport was meant instead, as that is much closer to Boston, and is an official reliever to Logan airport, along with Manchester, as seen here. Either way, I'd like to know what leads one to call this a Boston airport? oknazevad (talk) 19:47, 11 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The list was originally created based on this source, which lists the airports for each metropolitan area. Later many people added to the list, expanding it with cities not included in the original source, sometimes with questionable judgment. I agree that Bradley probably should not count as an airport for Boston. -Zanhe (talk) 20:06, 11 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, I figured it was something like that from looking at the edit history. I do wonder if this article therefore treads close to WP:OR, as its figures diverge strongly from its main source, yet at the same time that main source looks like its judgement of what constitutes a city's airport system is itself questionable such as omitting the secondary commercial airports for New York and leaving off LA/Ontario International from LA's total when it is actually owned by the city's airport department. Finding the total isn't itself OR, as it's a routine summation of each individual airport's total, which is fine. The potential for original research comes from what airports to count as a city's airports; the Bradley issue illustrates that perfectly. oknazevad (talk) 01:47, 12 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

This list is ridiculous![edit]

If Stansted, Luton and Southend are considerer London airports, then Westchester and Long Island are most definitely New York airports, even Stewart is a New York airport by that definition. And for Hongkong you would have to include Shenzen, Macau and Zuhuai if Barcelona can include Girona and Reus. Not to mention The Ruhr Area which have Dortmund, Dusseldorf, Koln, and Munster, you can just as well throw in Brussel for god measure as it is closer to Ruhr than Girona is to Barcelona. Even Shiphol and Frankfurt would qualify as Ruhr Airports. So Ruhr beats the crap out of all other metropolitan areas with 200+ million pax. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.41.22.66 (talk) 19:25, 14 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

London should include Biggin Hill airport (it is inside London!)[edit]

. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.168.219.54 (talk) 01:58, 11 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Not a commercial airport. General Aviation only. oknazevad (talk) 02:04, 11 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Sapporo[edit]

Why it have CTS but not Okadama....? btw, is the word "Airport systems" defined by ATC? C933103 (talk) 18:29, 10 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Pearl River Delta?[edit]

Why is not Perl River Delta included? It is one continous urban area and include Hong kong 68m, Shenzen 40m, Guangzhou 55m, Macau 6m, Zuhai 5m for a combined of 174m passengers. The area is much smaller than New York metropolitan area, ~7000km2 for Peral River Delta to ~17000 for New York metropolitan.

Do travelers to Hong Kong fly into the Macau airport and visa versa? Travelers to New York City do fly into Newark (State of New Jersey), Islip (Long Island), Westchester and Stewart (Rockland County). One could argue that the entire Boston-New York-Washington corridor is one big metropolitan area? The definition of an airport system needs to be locked down. user:mnw2000

The answer is yes. Residents in Shenzhen use Hong Kong for international destinations, and vice versa for HK residents for Chinese domestic destinations. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.2.240.113 (talk) 11:00, 21 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Pearl River Delta[edit]

The Pearl River Delta may be an economic zone, but it's definitely not a single city for aviation purposes. If we considered the PRD as a single aviation market, then NYC/Philadelphia, Beijing/Tianjin, Shanghai/Hangzhou/Wuxi, Amsterdam/Brussels etc. would all need to be considered a single city airport system, and that would be ridiculous. -Zanhe (talk) 05:57, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The dilution effects between HongKong and Shenzhen airports are clearly evidenced. PRD might not be a single city airport system, but HongKong/Shenzhen definitely qualify, if even Frankfurt International Airport is counted as in the same system as Frankfurt Hahn Airport. NNH is not even served with a meaningful public transportation with either Frankfurt, or FRA. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Awvsaw (talk • contribs) 11:23, 21 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Reliable source on the Pearl River Delta Airports system[edit]

http://www.camacau.com/en/about-us/cooperation-platform-global-civil-aviation/forum-five-pearl-river-delta-airports

1. Fully implement China’s civil aviation airports layout and development strategy with respect to the positioning of Greater PRD airports: maintain Hong Kong International Airport’s status as an international transport center and global pivotal airport; transform Guangzhou Baiyun International Airport into a gateway compound hub, strengthen its status of a center for “radiation” as well as its global competitiveness; enhance services and accelerate software and hardware development for developing ShenzhenAirport into as a “large backbone airport”; consolidate Macau International Airport as a model of small & medium-sized multi-functional international airport; further develop Zhuhai Airport, so as to create a base for the Southern China aviation industry and serve the thriving Greater PRD economy.

2. Join hands to strive for the opening of PRD airspace, making the region a trial area for low altitude flight in China.

3. Facilitate cooperation and exchange in training, airport facilities construction and business services, so as to create a positive competition and cooperation environment.

4. Act as each other’s backup landing and emergency assistance airport and share experience and achievements in safety management.

5. Enlist the government’s support for developing an airport-oriented integrated transport interchange hub.

6. Strengthen aviation city construction for airport economy development to provide better services for the PRD economy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.2.240.113 (talk) 11:10, 21 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

It is clearly HongKong and Shenzhen belong to an airport system, given Hong Kong is losing traffic to Shenzhen, for the same group of passengers they serve: — Preceding unsigned comment added by Awvsaw (talk • contribs) 11:18, 21 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-aviation-shenzhen/with-more-long-haul-flights-shenzhen-airport-steps-up-pressure-on-hong-kong-idUSKBN1D147Y

"Hong Kong is, though, likely to lose traffic from people living in Shenzhen and nearby Macao and Zhuhai who have previously travelled to Hong Kong to catch long-haul flights.

Hong Kong International Airport declined to comment beyond saying it was well established as a regional and international hub.

Deng Cangxin, a 23-year-old travelling domestically on Shenzhen Airlines, said many of his friends fly from Hong Kong on holiday because there are not yet any direct flights from Shenzhen to places like London and New York.

“People in Shenzhen have no choice but to go to Hong Kong because there are so few international flight options out of Shenzhen at the moment,” said BNP Paribas analyst James Teo." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Awvsaw (talk • contribs) 11:16, 21 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Miss Airports in the 2017 list[edit]

On the list 2017 are missing airports as Bogotá (30.989.632), Lima (22.025.704), Santiago (21.411.096) in Latin America. Johannesburg (21.180.060) in Africa. Naha (20.978.332) in Asia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tobetto (talk • contribs) 11:41, 9 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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