Talk:List of island countries/Archive 3

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Archive 1 Archive 2 Archive 3

Requested move 2009

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was no consensus to move the page, per the discussion below. And while this isn't really the forum to use to mediate content disputes, since there isn't really a consensus to move here, it would seem natural to restore the contents to countries that are on islands, with perhaps a separate section discussing borders or the lack of them. Dekimasuよ! 00:36, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

List of island countries → a different title — As this article is so different from Island country, which lists such states as the United Kingdom and Ireland as being island countries, a name change must be in order. Australia is also a continent, and is not usually considered an island. I would suggest list of countries without land boundaries, although other names may well be better. YeshuaDavid (talk) 16:34, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.
  • I agree there is a problem here. This is currently a list of borderless countries, not of island countries. This page used to contain countries like the UK and Indonesia, but at some point they were removed. I see two options: we could alter the page to include all countries on islands, or we can rename it list of borderless countries. - SimonP (talk) 17:43, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
  • Oppose - I agree that there is a problem here, but rather than it being a problem of a misnamed page, it is a problem of 'Definition Creep'. The page made perfect sense vis-a-vis the title when it was originally started (see HERE. The original purpose (i.e. definition) for the 'List of Island Countries' page was;
This is a list of countries which are made up of just islands. This means that they are either a single island or a group of islands.

That's a BIG difference from what the page is now. Now, the page's lede has a completely 'fabricated' (i.e. totally made up) description of what an 'Island Country' is. It is more than clear that the current definition existing on the page is artfully fabricated so that whomever, along the way, could add their own country to this list. But, the correct thing to do is to regress back to the original Stated Intent of the page, and toss out everything that has been 'creeped' into it. Since the lede (definition of what an Island Country is) came straight out of someone's imagination, rather than a published Reliable Source, I am going to help this project by tagging everything on the page that carries the malodorous stink of having been created solely in the mind and imagination of some past Wikipedia Editor. Joe Hepperle (talk) 10:24, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

To be honest, I don't see your reasoning, Joe Hepperle. An island country must be an island and must be a country. Island's are waterlocked, and obviously don't border anything. QED. The lede seems to be perfectly neutral to me, and we don't need to reference the obvious. I certainly don't seee the need to regress the page. YeshuaDavid (talk) 23:24, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
  • Oppose. I normally argue that the title should be made to fit the article as it is currently written, not the other way around. However, in this case, an article called "List of island countries" is needed at Wikipedia. Evasive euphemisms like "list of countries without borders" or "list of borderless countries" are lame and, even as separate articles, would be content forks. (Plus, wasn't the Mongol Empire a "country without borders" as were many premodern states?). As User:FingersOnRoids[1] and User:Joe Hepperle argue, stop the mission creep. — AjaxSmack 19:14, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

Discussion

Any additional comments:

There are two list articles that may be of relevance to this discussion: List of island countries by area and List of islands that form the majority of landmass of countries. --Polaron | Talk 20:14, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

They both seem to follow the "country on an island" definition. - SimonP (talk) 20:37, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Merge from Island country

  • Support: I agree this article should be combined with island country article. There seems no need to keep a separate article just for a listing. Also I don't see the need for an article distinguishing island countries that have a land border or not. Seems to be useless trivia. If one wants to know that just look at the entry for the country and see if it borders any countries (by land).--Mistakefinder (talk) 01:46, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
  • Oppose: Wikipedia is full of separate 'list of' articles. Why should this be any different? What is a mistake is confusing "list of countries with no land borders" and "list of island countries." Haiti, Dominican Republic, Ireland, and United Kingdom are Island countries. Australia isn't. Aldenrw (talk) 19:00, 30 June 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose for now. Both articles are of quite poor quality, to combine them now could exacerbate the problem. Chipmunkdavis (talk) 12:15, 26 July 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose: A list is simply a list. We also need an article describing what an island country is. Rehman(+) 15:39, 31 July 2010 (UTC)
  • Support: Merging both articles would make this list look more encyclopedic. Also, this "list" should be renamed into "Island countries" or any other title that mght come to better describe the description of what an Island country is. Krenakarore (talk) 21:07, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Korea

One could argue that the Republic of Korea should be considered a de facto island country, what with the touchy relation to its northern neighbor.
90.227.54.6 (talk) 01:54, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

Merge (Island countries by Area into List of Island countries)

This list is more complete and with one (or two) clicks of the mouse can easily be sorted by area. By merge I mean redirect. AIRcorn (talk) 05:50, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

 Done AIRcorn (talk) 07:55, 4 April 2011 (UTC)


"Notable region"

Just what is a "notable region". Any objective criteria? Or is it simply notable if a good few Westerners might expect to see it listed? How about we just apply objective criteria. 84.203.72.55 (talk) 21:42, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

Basically it lists dependencies and areas which have had international agreements on sovereignty (svalbard and Aland). Chipmunkdavis (talk) 00:56, 30 November 2011 (UTC)
It is very difficult to define a non-sovereign political entity as a constituent country or dependent territory or self-governing area, but all 51 dependencies/territories recognised by the UN should qualify as "notable regions" in Wikipedia articles. Astonishingly, French Guiana, Gibraltar, Hong Kong, and Macao are the only four ”notable regions" in the world which are not entirely on islands. Hong Kong presents a strong case for inclusion as an island territory though, since it has a significant portion of its land and population on islands, its capital district is also on an island. Macao has a significant portion of its land and population on islands too, but its capital district is on a peninsula. 120.16.149.175 (talk) 15:17, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

Australia is an island country

Why didn't you put it on the list?

Nope. It is not an island country. 120.16.149.175 (talk) 12:31, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
How so? Australia is surrounded on all sides by water. Even if it's a huge island, it's still an island. Tommy has a great username (talk) 15:20, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
Because Australia is too big to be classified as an island country. It has an area equivalent to approx. 75% of the total area of all the world's sea islands. The Australian continent is as big as all the sea islands in the world, excluding Greenland, combined. However, I reckon Australia is worth mentioning in this article. We could include Australia in a separate section for statistical purposes, just like we have included the four major continental landmasses in the article List of islands by area. 120.16.149.175 (talk) 15:28, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

United Kingdom and Ireland?

Don't they share a border? I.e. Ireland and Northern Ireland — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.117.47.251 (talk) 16:47, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

They do. The border is however, on an island. CMD (talk) 19:54, 30 August 2012 (UTC)
Several island countries have shared borders with other island countries. 120.16.149.175 (talk) 12:33, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

Hawaii, Réunion, Mayotte, Martinique, and Guadaloupe

I've added these to the "Dependencies and other notable regions" section. I'm not sure why they would be excluded. Hawaii is a state in the United States, and the other four are Departments of France, and as such are fully integrated parts of their countries; but, and this why I included them, are thousands of kilometers away from their homeland.

Islands that are very close to the parent colony, with no other special status, should not, I think, be included in the list. Nor would I include administrative divisions of Island Countries already listed. But if an island province (to use a generic term for a first level division of a country) is far enough away from the homeland, it seems to me it should be included.

I've also added a column for geographic location for both tables.

Listmeister (talk) 17:07, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

The title of the article is pretty clear, so it makes no sense to include subdivisions or dependencies. The only exception that might make sense is French Polynesia, which is an "overseas country" of France, the various Netherlands Antilles or Greenland. 212.113.145.253 (talk) 00:02, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
There's nothing but semantics that link French Polynesia and Aruba closer to each other than they are to many of the other entries on this list. Dependencies etc. are often listed in lists of countries. CMD (talk) 01:19, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
Which guidelines does that come from? Or is it just an offhand observation? 212.113.145.253 (talk) 01:32, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
There is no guideline for countries, bar the general ones about following external sources. Dependencies are often included in lists of countries in external sources. Country is an inherently ambiguous word. CMD (talk) 01:56, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
True it's an ambiguous word but as far as I can see Wikipedia articles that include dependencies seem to have titles which reflect this such as List of sovereign states and dependent territories by population density, whereas List of sovereign states steers clear. 212.113.145.253 (talk) 03:55, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
Those articles used to be called lists of countries. They were changed after many editors demanded the inclusion of England, Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland into the lists. CMD (talk) 09:11, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
Hawaii shouldn't be included. It is very difficult to define a non-sovereign political entity as a constituent country or dependent territory or self-governing area, but all 51 dependencies/territories recognised by the UN should qualify as "dependent territories and other notable regions" in Wikipedia articles. As a U.S. state, Hawaii is not one of them. 120.16.149.175 (talk) 15:48, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved no support Tiggerjay (talk) 06:04, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

List of island countries → List of island countries and dependent territories – The list has a burgeoning subsection devoted to "Dependencies and other notable regions", so the article title should reflect this. Equally good would be "List of island sovereign states and dependent territories". 212.113.145.253 (talk) 23:26, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles.
  • Oppose. Not needed. Apteva (talk) 23:22, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
  • Oppose - there is indeed a significant section listing territories but rather than rename I think it should be hived off toform a new article, perhaps List of island dependencies. Green Giant (talk) 00:45, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The Status of Malaysia

Looking at the list and map of island nations, the absence of Malaysia puzzled me. The main page defines an island country as one whose primary territory consists of one or more islands or parts of islands, but what does that mean for Malaysia, which has considerable land both on mainland Asia and the island of Borneo? It seems that the rule that primary territory of a country is that which contains its capital city is in play, meaning that because Kuala Lumpur is not located on an island, Malaysia cannot be considered an island country. If this was the case, then, Equatorial Guinea would have to also be considered an island country because Malabo is located on Bioko island, but it too does not appear on the map. In my opinion, the fact that the majority of the country is of an island and not peninsular is enough to deem Malaysia an island country. I also realize that population may also be a factor in determining the threshold, but if it is not, I believe that the status of Malaysia should be given further consideration. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mr M Mashup (talk • contribs) 03:50, 1 December 2013 (UTC)

Which of the current countries listed is not entirely on islands? CMD (talk) 15:30, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
You have initiated a very interesting discussion. In my opinon, there are at least four countries worth mentioning: Equatorial Guinea, Denmark, Malaysia, and Australia.
Equatorial Guinea has more land on the African mainland, but its capital city is on an island. Denmark also has its capital city on an island. If we include Greenland and the Faroe Islands as part of Denmark (which is politically correct), then Denmark is a country dominated by islands. Malaysia has more land on islands (East Malaysia), but the majority of its population and its capital city is on a peninsula. Australia is a unique continental country. It is the only country in the world which occupies an entire continent. Some people like to call Australia an island continent. In my opinion, Australia is too big to be classified as an island country. It has an area equivalent to approx. 75% of the total area of all the world's sea islands. The Australian continent is as big as all the sea islands in the world, excluding Greenland, combined. Nevertheless, I reckon these four countries are certainly worth mentioning, we should include them in a separate section for statistical purposes, just like we have included the four major continental landmasses in the article List of islands by area. 120.16.149.175 (talk) 13:01, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

Northern Cyprous, Niue and Cook Islands

Northern Cyprus is not neither an island country nor a sovereign state therefore it should not be listed in this article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.184.200.26 (talk) 10:37, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

I moved these entries from the sovereign states section to the notable regions. Northern Cyprous do not have the capacity to enter into relations with other sovereign states and Niue and Cook Islands are subject of New Zealand so none of them is considered Sovereign state according to the definition. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.73.215.212 (talk • contribs)
Northern Cyprus is a de facto state, its sovereigny is disputed. Niue and the Cook Islands are associated states of New Zealand which have full treaty-making capacity within the UN System. They are sort of semi-independent countries between sovereign states and dependent territories. In my opinion, all these three political entities (plus Taiwan) are worth mentioning. I am happy with the list in its current format. 120.16.149.175 (talk) 13:13, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

Kingdom of Denmark

I am curious as to why the Kingdom of Denmark is not listed as an island state? Does anybody know?

Both Greenland and the Faroe Islands are listed on the "notable regions" list and they form a quite large part of the Kingdom of Denmark. Denmark proper even qualifies as an island state on its own, according to the definition given in the article. Only Jutland connects with continental Europe, and then even the northern part of Jutland is an island in itself (see North Jutlandic Island).

RhinoMind (talk) 13:36, 5 October 2014 (UTC)

But, since the construction of the Kiel Canal, Jutland doesn't attach to continental Europe. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:6C4:4100:22C9:35C9:FED4:18D8:3D04 (talk) 16:51, 6 September 2019 (UTC)
A man-made canal won't convert a peninsula into an island. However, I do agree that the Kingdom of Denmark as a whole (98.9% of its territory is on islands) presents a strong case for inclusion. 120.16.149.175 (talk) 13:35, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

Australia

Australia is located on a continent. Who considers it an island, he or she knows nothing about geography or simply are illiterate. In similar case one may call any continent as an island. About border, the island of Hispanola which raises no doubts about its categorization as an island has a land border and on its territory are situated two counties. Similar case is with Cyprus. In the past the island of Sakhalin was under jurisdiction of two different and completely culturally unrelated countries. So, the statement about whether Australia has border or not does not necessarily makes the continent an island. If Canada and Mexico would join the United States, the North American continent will not be an island. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 22:33, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

Yes, I agree with you. Australia is not an island. It is a continent which has an area equivalent to approx. 75% of the total area of all the world's sea islands. The Australian continent is as big as all the sea islands in the world, excluding Greenland, combined. However, Australia is a unique continental country. It is the only country in the world which occupies an entire continent. I think we should at least include Australia in a small section for statistical purposes, just like we have included the four major continental landmasses in the article List of islands by area. 120.16.149.175 (talk) 12:27, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

UK - one main island?

Surely the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is on two main islands, not one? After all, Trinidad and Tobago is listed as having 2 main islands.--94.3.112.109 (talk) 03:20, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

On one main island, shares a second main island with another country. 120.16.149.175 (talk) 13:16, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

Taiwan

Perhaps a link to the controversial political status of Taiwan? Alexlur (talk) 22:27, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

According to Wikipeda's definition of a Sovereign state, namely "having a permanent population, defined territory, one government, and the capacity to enter into relations with other sovereign states", Taiwan is a sovereign state. (Despite it technically claiming the territory of the PRC and Mongolia, Taiwan's actual governed territory has been stable since 1949, and so can really be said to be "defined".) Therefore I am putting it back in the list of sovereign states. If anyone wishes to revert the change again, please explain why. RitKill (talk) 22:45, 14 December 2016 (UTC)
Whether the ROC is a sovereign state or not is a controversial topic because its territories are debatable. Also, it is already mentioned in section De facto island–bound states with limited recognition so it should not be mentioned again in another section. --Matt Smith (talk) 01:14, 15 December 2016 (UTC)
Taiwan and Northern Cyprus are de facto states, both of them are worth mentioning. 120.16.149.175 (talk) 13:20, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

Denmark, and colours

Hello,

I agree with the above comment by @RhinoMind:, Denmark is probably worth mentioning. Island country is defined as "a country whose primary territory consists of one or more islands".

  • If you consider Faroe and Greenland as separate countries from Denmark proper, then approx. 59% of the latter's population and 42% of its area are on islands, including the North Jutlandic Island and Zealand, where capital city Copenhagen is located.
  • If you consider the sovereign country of the Kingdom of Denmark, which includes Faroe and Greenland, then 60% of its population and 98.9% of its area are on islands.

One could also argue about Equitorial Guinea, whose capital city Malabo is on an island, but where islands cover just 28% of the population and 7% of the area.

Also, the map commons:File:Island nations.svg pictures coutries "with land borders shaded green, and those without shaded dark blue". However, Cuba (which has a border in Guantanamo) is shaded blue. It could be shaded in green. Also, Japan theoretically still has a land border in Sakhalin in the absence of a peace treaty with Russia settling post-WWII land disputes. Place Clichy (talk) 17:13, 19 October 2016 (UTC)

Guantanamo is part of Cuba, leased by the US government. Japan lays no claim on Sakhalin. CMD (talk) 01:06, 15 December 2016 (UTC)
Maybe on another section, but I think Denmark, Equatorial Guinea, Malaysia, and Australia are worth mentioning. Especially the Kingdom of Denmark. 120.16.149.175 (talk) 13:45, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

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Hong Kong and Macau - notable regions?

Should these two entities be listed under "dependencies and notable regions? I would suggest that the one country, two systems policy makes them more distinct from China than, say, New Caledonia is from France. Grutness...wha? 04:21, 26 October 2019 (UTC)

Yes, I agree with you. Hong Kong and Macao are not countries, certainly not sovereign states. They are "special" political divisions within China. In other words, China considers them as subnational divisions with some "special power", so they are integral parts of China instead of associated states or dependent territories. However, in reality, Hong Kong and Macao almost function as two independent countries. They have their own governments, they have their own currencies, they control their own borders, they manage their own foreign affairs, they participate in international sporting events separately, they can even issue their own passports! There are 51 dependencies/territories recognised by the UN, I think Hong Kong and Macao are the only two territories which have the power to issue passports to their residents. 120.16.149.175 (talk) 14:45, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
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