Talk:List of large triptychs by Francis Bacon

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'Large' triptychs?[edit]

What is the sizing criterion that assigns 'largeness'? Looking at the dimensions of some, they seem positively small.

Also, here is a BBC report on the recent sale of one: [1]. 81.147.147.114 (talk) 11:48, 11 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Use of non-free media on this article[edit]

The use of non-free media on lists such as this is controlled by the WP:NFLISTS guideline. Further, the use of the images in a table is strongly discouraged by WP:NFTABLE. And, the use of non-free image on this list, when separate articles exist for each of the depicted items also violates WP:NFC. The images need to be removed. --Hammersoft (talk) 12:48, 29 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

You are incorrect, these images are necessary, per #6 of the WP:NFLISTS guideline as you already know, there is minimal usage here, no free equivalent and they cannot be adequately described in words, these are 'visual artworks...Modernist (talk) 13:15, 29 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • So including 30 non-free images here (if all items in the list had an associated image) would be ok with you? Lists are lists. They aren't articles per se. There are articles for the works already depicted. There is absolutely zero reason to re-depict the images here when articles exist for them already. Even if such articles didn't exist, there STILL isn't reason. There isn't any real discussion going on of these works of art. Instead, there's a date, the media used, the size and where the work is now. We do not permit the use of non-free items in discographies, videographies, bibliographies, etc. This is no different. --Hammersoft (talk) 13:28, 29 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • There are only 5 images not 30. If there were 30 you'd have made your point. These few images are important and rare works of Bacon's. They demonstrate a unique and interesting aspect of his visual art. Paintings and works of visual art are 'different' as you say. However if you think added text is needed then you make a valid suggestion...Modernist (talk) 14:00, 29 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • The use of 30 would carry the same argument as the 5. There's no limitation here. Fine, they're rare and important. That doesn't give leave to use them here. They are already used on specific articles about those works, and the images are already hosted there. There is no need to replicate the use here. --Hammersoft (talk) 14:24, 29 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • While I respect your opinion, I disagree as to why they are needed here, they visually depict a few of Bacon's large tryptichs, which cannot be understood any other way outside of seeing them...Modernist (talk) 14:50, 29 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I see no absolute prohibitions on this list using more than one image. From WP:NFLISTS (all emphasis added): "non-free images should be used judiciously to present the key visual aspects of the topic." Okay. "It is inadvisable to provide a non-free image for each entry in such an article or section." Fine, that's not done here anyway. "If another non-free image of an element of an article is used elsewhere within Wikipedia, referring to its other use is preferred over repeating its use on the list and/or including a new, separate, non-free image." I disagree with Hammersoft that there is "zero" use to reproduce any of them here; identification of which triptych is which is difficult from just a date and the title, much more so than with a musician's discography. So if there are groupings of triptychs that can be made, based on them having related subjects, visual elements, different periods in the artist's work, etc., maybe make sure that you're not using more than one representative image for one of those groupings. Here are some hopefully constructive comments:

  1. The first image, File:Three Studies for Figures at the Base of a Crucifixion.jpg, is duplicated twice in this list; either use it in the table, or in the lede, but not both.
  2. File:Second Version of Triptych 1944.jpg is not particularly necessary or helpful for identification, in that it is a version of File:Three Studies for Figures at the Base of a Crucifixion.jpg, which the list uses already.
  3. From NFLISTS: "If duplicating the use of a non-free image, please be aware that a separate non-free fair use rationale must be supplied for the image for the new use." These images have these from what I can see, but flesh these out to help justify why you're using those images.
  4. Develop some more text to accompany the list, maybe talking about patterns or groupings in the triptychs as I mentioned above. An image or two accompanying a paragraph or two of text would probably be more acceptable than their inclusion in a table/list. postdlf (talk) 14:47, 29 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with the above and I think Postdif makes some good points...Modernist (talk) 14:50, 29 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Something else to consider is exactly how useful the thumbnails are, given that there is a lot of similarity to the triptychs (whitish figures in mostly red panels) and the significant differences may not be visible at that size. If it doesn't help you distinguish the works at the size it's being displayed, you don't need it. Take some time to think about it. postdlf (talk) 15:37, 29 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
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