Talk:List of literary awards/Archive 1

Proposed Merge

It has been suggested that the section Literature from the article List of prizes, medals, and awards be merged into this article or section. (copied from article template)

• Support - It is the largest section. Prizes, medals, and awards could seem to be nearly infinite, especially if military awards are counted. I see the bigger list becoming more and more a link to lists by subject. I also like the idea of grouping, but not breaking apart by country. I found a site detailing around 50 Japanese Literary Awards - many more than are on this current list. I'd rather see lists by topic rather than topic of country x. Finding List of prizes, medals, and awards in Singapore gave me a shudder. --EarthPerson 04:43, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

• Meh. Duplication is never a bad thing, especially in the 'pedia. I guess I support the merge in practice, but not in theory. -steventity 07:12, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

• Support. Duplication is actually a very bad thing, as it makes content-forking inevitable, and leads to unnecessary bulking of articles. A merge would be excellent, per Wikipedia:Summary style. --Quiddity 17:25, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
• Merge away per EarthPerson. Her Pegship (tis herself) 21:29, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Done. --Quiddity 01:51, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Other lists

I'm going to merge the American list here too. There are only 2 items that differ between them, and as stated above, duplication is bad because it leads to content-forking. The alternative would be the opposite: Using just a {{main}} link here and all the content at the subpage, per WP:SUMMARY style.

The British and Australian subpages are more complex, so I'll leave them be. --Quiddity 01:58, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

French prizes

Shouldn't the prix de l'academie francaise, or prix goncourt be "international awards of limited scope". They accept French-language titles, irrespective of origin. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.104.17.63 (talk) 18:50, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

Current awards only?

Is this list only for awards that are still being given out, or does it include defunct literary awards? Thanks. Aristophanes68 (talk) 07:36, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

External Links

While visiting this page, I noticed that the External Links did not meet WP:EL. I visited each of the ELs and pruned the list to remove abandoned and promotional links. This has been reverted and I'd like to give folks the opportunity to justify why these links belong in this article. As per WP:EL: "Some external links are welcome..., but it is not Wikipedia's purpose to include a lengthy or comprehensive list of external links related to each topic. No page should be linked from a Wikipedia article unless its inclusion is justifiable according to this guideline and common sense. The burden of providing this justification is on the person who wants to include an external link" and ELPoints #3 "Links in the "External links" section should be kept to a minimum". Since this is a List page with links to existing Wikipedia articles about each award, what is the justification for inclusion of each of these links that isn't met already via the List itself or the articles linked? For info about External Links you can visit WP:EL or the sub sections at WP:ELYES, WP:ELMAYBE and WP:ELNO.

Since we are working towards consensus, I'd like to suggest the African Awards link be kept, as it seems relatively up-to-date and contains information that could not be integrated into the article (WP:ELYES #3). Thoughts on this link and the others? Stesmo (talk) 21:48, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

Nine days later, no comment. I will assume that no one is willing to advocate for and justify the inclusion of these External links. Please do not revert the EL link removal without first coming here to justify the inclusion of a link, showing how it meets WP:ELYES or WP:ELMAYBE. Thanks, Stesmo (talk) 19:18, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

What kind of "justification" are you looking for? These links are relevant and suitable for the page. -- GreenC 19:25, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

WP:EL has more information, Green Cardamom. Essentially, since you insist these links should be in this article, you need to justify why each individual link meets WP:EL. To assist, I've copied and pasted the links below, including my justification for the inclusion of the African Awards link. I've reverted your edit while this discussion continues. We should definitely add back any links that we gain consensus on at that time. Thanks, Stesmo (talk) 19:59, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

• Complete listings of main literary award winners for all years
• Author Ranking by Literary Awards: ranked lists of authors that received prominent literary award honors
• Graphical Author and Novel Ranking by Literary Awards: graphical ranking of authors and novels that received prominent literary award honors (tabs across the top)
• "The Art of Prize-Fighting", by Tom Chatfield in Prospect Magazine, January 2009. Essay on the history and merit of modern literary prizes.
• African Literary Awards Database, Indiana University

While I did not suggest this link, this is the only link I believe needs to stay. African Awards seems relatively up-to-date and contains information that could not be integrated into the article (WP:ELYES #3).Stesmo (talk) 19:59, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

Yes I believe all of these should be kept because they are relevant to the article and contain good information and there are only 5 links which is not excessive or even comprehensive. Anything else you need? -- GreenC 20:39, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

Hi, Green Cardamom. I'm going to assume good faith and figure I am just not explaining this well or the WP:EL is just not written well enough. Is there anything I can help you with so we can gain WP:Consensus on adding these links? Is there something I explain further or better? Is there something in the Wikipedia guidelines and policies that you'd like to point me to so myself and other editors might understand where you're coming from on these reverts?

In there WP:EL, you'll note: ELPOINTS #3 covers your point about 5 links with "Links in the "External links" section should be kept to a minimum. A lack of external links or a small number of external links is not a reason to add external links." And, "The burden of providing this justification is on the person who wants to include an external link". You are the editor wanting these links, yet you provide no justification for these mostly out-of-date links that provide almost nothing of use to the article, which just a list of Wikipedia articles about awards. Personally, I can't see why any "List of" article or Disambiguation page should really contain any External Links... For more information on awards, the reader would just visit the article they're interested in and see any relevant info, references or external links there.

Additionally, I'm going to be reverting your addition of external links to this article without the requested justification. This is bordering on WP:EDITWARRING, which I'm sure neither of us wants. It might be best if we can finish this discussion here and try to reach WP:Consensus before you add links to this article and remove templates. Thanks, Stesmo (talk) 22:44, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

Actually I did provide a justification. You ignored it. Your opinion that "List of" articles should be denuded of all external links is not only a radical deletionist position, it's one not shared by the community. Your wikilawyering by constantly citing the guideline EL to cover up your real agenda here of trying to delete External Links from List of articles. It's clearly time for an RfC to get a wider community consensus on your activities deleting External Links in this and other articles. -- GreenC 23:41, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

I'm not sure how it would be wikilawyering to refer to WP:EL when discussing External Links. My real agenda is to improve Wikipedia and I'd appreciate if you could assume good faith and keep the discussion about the issue here (4 links we apparently disagree on) and not on some imagined motives. I've tried to be very patient, gain consensus in what seems to be an obvious case of unnecessary external links and give you the benefit of the doubt here. I'd like the same in return. Thanks, Stesmo (talk) 03:28, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

You said "I can't see why any "List of" article or Disambiguation page should really contain any External Links". -- GreenC 19:20, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

RfC: Should these four external links be included?

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Should these four (or some portion) be included in the External Links section?

1. Complete listings of main literary award winners for all years
2. Author Ranking by Literary Awards: ranked lists of authors that received prominent literary award honors
3. Graphical Author and Novel Ranking by Literary Awards: graphical ranking of authors and novels that received prominent literary award honors (tabs across the top)
4. "The Art of Prize-Fighting", by Tom Chatfield in Prospect Magazine, January 2009. Essay on the history and merit of modern literary prizes.

Please !vote Support or Oppose for all some or none. -- GreenC 23:48, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

Survey

• Support all. The links are relevant to the article, there is no other good place on Wikipedia for them. While they may not be up to 2014 date few literary award resources are, these are still of value even for historical purposes. -- GreenC 23:48, 11 December 2014 (UTC)
• Oppose for Booksalley, litawards and prospectmag. Not really sure about Tableau link anymore because it's actually working. When I originally visited and removed it, it was only showing errors, so I am on the fence now on this. I don't see how most of these meet WP:EL, either. For Booksalley, this is a list of awards that hasn't been updated in ~7 years and seems to be better covered by the award pages linked to on this article. Litawards also seems to no longer be maintained and doesn't seem to be of much use. Prospectmag is just a five-year-old article that may have something to do with Awards, but not with the concept of Lists of awards. I'm not sure why any of these links need to be present, as they do not actually contribute to the understanding of the article's topic: A List. This isn't an article about a specific award or awards in general, it's a List of wikilinks to other articles that talk about awards at that location. Perhaps some of these links would be suitable for some of those pages, but I don't see how they are here. Stesmo (talk) 03:54, 12 December 2014 (UTC)
• Oppose for litawards and prospectmag; uncertain for Booksalley and Tableau. Litawards is self-admittedly "heavily weighted in contemporary American Literature" and "not meant to be statistically or theoretically sound". Prospectmag is just an article about awards, with no clear relevance to this list. (In response to User:Green Cardamom's reasoning that there is nowhere else on Wikipedia to put these links, I note that Litawards and Prospectmag are both included in the External links section of Literary award, although they might not really be suitable there either.) —Granger (talk · contribs) 01:09, 20 December 2014 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

List is too broad

This list has always had a problem there is no criteria for inclusion other than "no red links". That means, every article in Category:Literary awards which is thousands are open for inclusion. Thus it simply mirrors the category tree, but doesn't do as good a job since an award there can be in multiple categories (by country, by genre (multiple), by year, etc) while here it is usually only listed in one sub-section. This list is an incomplete and random snapshot of literary awards on Wikipedia and I don't know how that could be improved. -- GreenC 15:43, 28 January 2016 (UTC)