Talk:List of lochs of Scotland

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Untitled[edit]

There are other natural lakes in Scotland - Pressmennan Lake being an example.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 212.84.101.231 (talk • contribs) 20:55, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Artificial, according to here and here – dave souza, talk 23:36, 22 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Loch Jess[edit]

Although Loch Jess appears to have been removed by the person who added it, it seems that there really is a Loch Jess (a two acre lochan in Ayrshire). On the other hand I don't suppose we want to have every little pond in Scotland listed here. Lavateraguy 20:05, 12 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Loch of Gerista[edit]

There is no Loch of that name on Shetland. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.54.132.175 (talk) 20:47, 28 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Quite right - silly typo now fixed. Ben MacDui 18:35, 30 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

2 Lochs Carabhat ?[edit]

Hello, I am going to translate this article in French and I have found two lochs "Carabhat" here-> [1]. Is it a mistake? Could you please answer to me in the french discussion page? Thanks. Skiff (talk) 17:44, 14 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

(answering in both places) No these are both lochs, you can see them on OS maps here and here. JMiall₰ 17:59, 14 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for your quick answer. Skiff (talk) 20:45, 14 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Kilbirnie Loch[edit]

I read somewhere that Kilbirnie Loch is the only one where the source enters at the same énd as the river that drains it. Can anyone confirm or negate this? Rosser Gruffydd 11:15, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Sea lochs[edit]

I have added a few dozen more items to the list of sea lochs (saltwater lochs) and broken them down into alphabetical sections for ease of navigation. I have attempted to indicate which part of the Scottish coast they lie on with either a county name or district name in round brackets and have linked the first instance of each of these in each alphabetic section with square brackets. Does that make sense?! I note too that this list includes a second natural body of water (after Lake of Menteith) known as a lake - 'Manxman's Lake' on the Solway Firth coast - Scotland's only example of a 'sea-lake' perhaps?
cheers Geopersona (talk) 22:53, 17 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It certainly exists, at grid reference NX678485 by St Mary's Isle Priory. Whilst I don't know of another one, this is a big claim and should really be sourced. Ben MacDui 09:22, 18 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I think there is an argument for removing the sea lochs (currently 'saltwater lochs' in this article) to a separate listing ('List of sea lochs of Scotland' perhaps), particularly as both the list of lochs and of sea lochs grow. Interlink the two pages of course. Any thoughts?
cheers Geopersona (talk) 06:20, 18 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed. Ben MacDui 09:22, 18 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I have now copied the list of 'saltwater lochs' to a new page titled List of sea lochs of Scotland though have not yet removed them from this list in case anyone had misgivings about the move. I've exlained it on the talk page of the other article. cheers Geopersona (talk) 21:17, 27 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
And I have now removed the sea lochs and put appropriate links in place to the new list. Hope the move meets with approval. cheers Geopersona (talk) 06:49, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Expansion of main list[edit]

I'm in the midst of significantly expanding the main list ie that of mainland freshwater lochs. I though it might be useful if I explained my approach. I am using the OS Landranger 1:50,000 maps, taking them sheet by sheet, to add lochs to the list. I have been omitting any waterbodies named as reservoirs unless the name also contains the term 'loch'. These might best be added to the existing List of reservoirs and dams in the United Kingdom or else a new list started for Scotland though that duplication might be unwarranted. Neither am I including 'lochans' except where they are of exceptional size and, by any rational naming approach, would be termed lochs. There is of course(?) no set cut-off between waterbodies known as lochs and those known as lochans - there are a number of outsized lochans and there are very many tiny lochs. My referencing of them by geographical area is perhaps inconsistent. I'm using both modern administrative area names eg Perth and Kinross but also geographical districts eg Kintyre or Ardnamurchan and occasionally proximity to towns eg west of Glasgow. Someone else might wish to regularise this before I get around to doing it. cheers Geopersona (talk) 05:59, 21 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Lochan is, to the best of my knowledge, only used in the Highlands, so in the lowlands lochs are going to include small bodies of water. Lavateraguy (talk) 09:29, 21 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
By tha way, Argyll and Bute doesn't strike me as a helpful geographical placement. Lavateraguy (talk) 10:04, 21 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
You're quite right of course Lavateraguy - though there are plenty of very small 'lochs' (as opposed to 'lochans') in the Highlands, not just in the lowlands. As regards 'Argyll and Bute' - yes again, though it's more helpful than 'Highlands' to the north, which I've avoided since that administrative area is vastly overlarge to be helpful in this context! The equivalent list for Wales employs the modern unitary authority areas as the basis for division - it's not an alphabetical list for the entire country like this one. Both approaches - and indeed others - have their merits and drawbacks. Would we find an alphabetical list by traditional county more useful here? Again it would be interesting to hear others' views as to what would serve us best. cheers Geopersona (talk) 05:58, 22 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I would suggest that the major islands be specified, rather than their local government areas (except that Orkney and Shetland be treated as groups), and Lewis and Harris split. Lavateraguy (talk) 09:04, 22 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The islands are specified, in their own section. However there is a wider question about the direction this article is going in. There is nothing wrong with having a comprehensive listing, but this is making the list very large relative to the amount of information about the general subject. When I started the islands section, as is explicit, the aim was to list only the larger and more notable examples about which something could be said. There are innumerable unlisted ones - see e.g. grid reference NF755308. I think there is a case for using a more structured set of sections - something like:
Mainland lochs above a certain size in a table similar to the islands one.
On islands
Smaller lochs listed by council area/island
See List of Outer Hebrides for an example of this kind of approach. Ben MacDui 09:47, 22 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I'd taken a look at the List of Outer Hebrides yesterday and thought there might be elements we could emulate with the lochs - I think you got this up to 'featured list' status didn't you Ben Macdui? Of course there are questions as to where one draws the line between major and minor lochs - they can't be readily pigeonholed after all. The obvious criterion to go on is area (easier for those for which we have area figures readily available) though that won't equate with notability or 'importance' as defined in various other ways eg connections with Scottish history or HEP developments or wildlife value, for example. Thus it might be argued that St Margaret's Loch is much more important than say Loch Glass (beneath Ben Wyvis) despite the latter's much greater size (in fact I see it is a redlink so nobody's yet got around to writing about it). If sortable tables were used then some combination of columns to indicate name, Gaelic name?, administrative area, surface area, depth, elevation, location (via OS grid co-ordinates), notes, might be constructed. So far as information about the general subject is concerned, my own take is that most of that belongs in a separate article - Lochs for example - leaving the List of lochs in Scotland to be largely what the title suggests - a list (or indeed a set of related lists). cheers Geopersona (talk) 15:58, 22 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Figures for areas of lochs[edit]

As I've also asked at the lakes/lochs of the UK page - it's not clear to me where the figures for the areas of each of the lochs listed has come from. Can anyone point me to a source and ought that source to be referenced in the article? I may be missing something obvious of course! thanks Geopersona (talk) 19:57, 2 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I guess it's the Bathymetrical Survey of the Fresh-Water Lochs of Scotland, 1897-1909 ? Geopersona (talk) 20:47, 2 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Yes - see note 6: "Source for all quantities is the same unless otherwise stated." Ben MacDui 07:55, 3 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I realised it could only be the Bathymetrical Survey though I still don't think that's obvious to the lay-reader. I'm unaware of any other sources available except by physically measuring the lochs on OS mapping - but that might count as original research then. cheers Geopersona (talk) 19:56, 3 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
In attempting to expand and fill out the lists with some more loch statistics I have turned to the Bathymetrical Survey but alas Murray and Pullar whilst undertaking an enormous task in surveying the lochs of Scotland failed to visit many sizeable lochs. Is anyone aware of any other systematic (or otherwise) sources of information on areas, elevations, depths etc? Druidibeg (South Uist) and Coruisk (Skye) are two examples of well-known lochs that were not surveyed. Add to that the fact that many have been dammed since the days of the survey (now more than a century ago) and the difficulties grow. cheers Geopersona (talk) 18:08, 20 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Not I. Ben MacDui 18:10, 20 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
An enquiry directed to SEPA gave rise to this lead: http://www.uklakes.net/index.php - quite useful since it includes data that I haven't encountered elsewhere and including surface area, elevation, location, perimeter length etc. cheers Geopersona (talk) 20:55, 23 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Hi, I've just visited this page and am keen to contribute. I'm a researcher at the University of Dundee with a focus on the changing ecohydrology of Scottish lochs and have a number of data sets which might be of interest to you. I see you've been pointed in the direction of www.uklakes.net which is a great resource arising out of a digitised version of the OS 1:50000 scale maps of the UK - the academic source for this would be Hughes, M., Hornby, D.D., Bennion, H., Kernan, M., Hilton, J., Phillips, G. & Thomas, R. (2004) The development of a GIS-based inventory of standing waters in Great Britain together with a risk-based prioritisation protocol. Water, Air, and Soil Polluition, 4, p.pp.73-84.

I have a series of work using data from this source amongst others, including a number of GIS maps etc which might be useful here.

There are a few things in the article which might warrant some clarification but as a complete newbie to editing wikipedia (i signed up to start this communication) I thought I would say hi first!

Look forward to hearing from you.

Martin (m.c.a.muir@dundee.ac.uk) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mcamuir (talk • contribs) 14:09, 20 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

A warm welcome to you, Mcamuir - great to have you on board. Editing Wikipedia can be very rewarding - although it takes a little time to learn the ropes. I encourage you to be bold and plunge right in to areas that interest you. Please make good use of in-line references from reliable sources - there are plenty of examples in the article tables. If you need any assistance re this article just drop another note here - or for anything more general click on the purple "Mac" in my signature (which follows). That will take you to my "talk page" where you are welcome to leave a message. I'll drop a standard note on your own talk page to show you how they work. Good luck! Ben MacDui 18:28, 20 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Loch of Fithie?[edit]

Loch of Fithie seems to be missing from the list. It's in the Bathymerical survey and British Lakes and on OS maps to the east of Forfar Triptropic (talk) 20:41, 3 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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Loch Doine[edit]

This is missing. Forth basin. Mile long 65 feet deep. Stirlingshire. Next to Loch Voil. scope_creep (talk) 10:54, 8 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Multiple Loch nam Eun[edit]

[2]

Several of these are very large, and some are very small and may not be notable. Need to check later. scope_creepTalk 21:53, 18 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Multiple Black Loch[edit]

[3] scope_creepTalk 21:50, 18 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Two suggestions[edit]

I can't help feeling this article would be more "encyclopedic" if it was structured in a different way. For example, if rather than a long list of all and sundry in alphabetical order it had headings for each local authority area or 'region' with short descriptions of each of the major lochs in a table and a list of smaller lochs below that table and heading. (I confess I am unlikely to have time for such a project.)

Something that could be done easily is replace the existing table with the one that existed until a while ago here. The latter avoids the duplciation of every column and identifies the 3 largest in each category. An alternative might be to use the convert template in each column if imperial measures are really held to be useful. </nowiki>


Thoughts? Ben MacDui 18:32, 18 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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