Talk:List of mammals of the Czech Republic

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Criteria for inclusion of species?[edit]

I wonder: what are the criteria for including species on this list? First of all, what is the rationale behind listing extirpated species such as European Mink and European Bison which both haven't lived in the country for a long time?

Then I would like to ask whether all the introduced species are omitted on purpose - because they are introduced - or whether it's an inadvertent omission? I would personally include at least Coypu, Muskrat, Fallow Deer, Racoon, Racoon Dog and the Mouflon. I understand that Mouflon is, taxonomically, the same as domestic sheep, but then again, a Wolf is the same species as dogs ... The omission of all those species is particularly puzzling considering that Chamois (which was introduced later and is far less widespread) is included.

Finally, Common Pine Vole (Microtus Subterraneus) is missing, but that has to be just a mistake, there is no practical reason to exclude that (there a plenty of recent records). Opisska (talk) 16:05, 12 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

As is already evident by the very first reference, those species are included that are listed on the resp. IUCN Red Lists; i.e. also those that have become extinct after 1500 AD, but not domestic or feral ones. Wolf is certainly NOT the same as domestic dog! – BhagyaMani (talk) 16:24, 12 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Do you know where to find the relevant IUCN list, other than searching "Czech Republic" on iucnredlist.org? Because, sadly, this method is buggy - for example the Kyrgyzstan or Tajikistan list was quite obviously generated this way and lacked Tolai Hare, a quite common species in the countries. Also, I would like to note, that while the opinion that dogs and wolfs are not the same species exists in the scientific community, its current status doesn't warrant a "NOT" in capital letters - the community is pretty much split on that and even recent DNA analyses made it more confusing than anything. Taxonomy is just a mess :) But that's not really a problem here, as there is no real feral dog population in the Czech Republic. Opisska (talk) 17:03, 12 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Opisska: There's nothing at the top of the page which sets the criteria for inclusion and right now there's no Wikipedia wide standard. For now at least, I'd say to use your good judgement and go ahead and make the changes that reliable sources suggest.

I've been thinking about the issue and my latest draft of a proposal is at Inclusion criteria for List of organisms of Place. Basically it would add a sentence like "This list includes all wild mammal species of the Czech Republic which maintain a self-sustaining population and which are extant or became locally extinct after 1500." I'd love feedback on that draft of a proposal. Thank you, SchreiberBike | ⌨ 16:35, 12 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@BhagyaMani: I'd appreciate your feedback too. SchreiberBike | ⌨ 16:50, 12 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I had no idea that the commonly used breaking point is 1500 AD, then it makes good sense. Yes, I think the approach to introduced animals should be clearly stated and "self-sustaining population" is exactly the angle that makes sense. I would have to probably look up some sources to see whether Fallow Deer actually qualifies for that (how much management is there), but the others definitely should. Opisska (talk) 17:03, 12 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

National Red Lists have been published in lots of countries in the past 2 decades; ad hoc coming to mind are the ones for the Arabian peninsula, Nepal, Bangladesh. So I'd reference the resp. country list in the lead and list only those species here; and then add references to the international criteria acc. to the IUCN Red List for each species. – BhagyaMani (talk) 17:10, 12 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]