Talk:List of monarchs of Wessex

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Who is next?[edit]

The article says, "This is a list of monarchs of Wessex until 924. For later monarchs, see the List of monarchs in the British Isles." The page linked to is useless for the non-expert. It has sixteen links to kingdoms any one of which might be the successor kingdom to Wessex. Was Wessex conquered in 924? Did it cease to exist? Or did it conquer Mercia and become England? Please if you know put a link to the list of kings who succeeded Æthelstan.

I found what appears to me to be the correct link. Please help by checking my work. Thanks, Nick Beeson (talk) 15:15, 28 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Third column[edit]

The third column, containing what are supposedly Latin and Old English titles of the various kings, is totally unreferenced and, on its face, extremely dubious. The spellings are sometimes unlikely, the grammar impossible, and the Old English execrable (ðe is not Old English for "the"; great is not Old English for "great" in terms of fame but rather "thick, coarse," and Alfred did not receive this epithet until centuries after his death). I can only assume that the editor (John Armagh) who added this column simply made most or all of these titles up, perhaps based on a tiny handful of legitimate titles. In any case, this entire thing needs to be redone, based on *actual* data (e.g., coins, inscriptions, documents) which is sourced and cited. RandomCritic (talk) 21:51, 27 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Legendary Kings[edit]

Could we please pages for legendary kings that came before Cerdic of Wessex? --Figfires (talk) 21:18, 15 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

See the article on Anglo-Saxon royal genealogies. Though I am afraid these are only names in a list, rather than notable figures in their own right. Dimadick (talk) 22:33, 15 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I was hoping to have pages created for these figures as they are semi-legendary and legendary kings. Ireland has a list of legendary kings and an individual page for each already. --Figfires (talk) 05:03, 16 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Some of them already have individual articles, though they are poorly connected to each other. Lets see what we have.

Elesa. No article yet.
Esla. No article yet.
Giwis. Memtioned as the eponymous ancestor of the Gewisse.
Wig. One of two characters covered in the article Ket and Wig.
Freawine. He has his own article.
Friðgar. Also known as Frithugar. No article yet.
Brond/Brand. No article yet.
Bældæg. This is apparently the Anglo-Saxon version of the god Baldr.
Woden. This is the Anglo-Saxon version of the god Odin.
Frealeaf. No article yet.
Friothulf. No article yet.
Finn. Possibly the same figure as Finn, the legendary king of Frisia. The Anglo-Saxon genealogy depicts him as Finn, son Godwulf, while the traditional version of his tale depicts him as Finn, son of Folcwald.
Godwulf. No article yet.
Geat. A god or demigod, possibly a version of the god Gaut.
Tetuua. No article yet.
Beowa. A god or demigod. Some scholars identify him with the legendary figures Beowulf and John Barleycorn.
Scyld. An Anglo-Saxon version of Skjöldr, the legendary king of Denmark. Eponymous ancestor of the Scylding.
Heremod. A legendary king of Denmark. Some scholars identify him with Hermóðr and Lotherus.
Itermon. No article yet.
Hrathra. No article yet.
Hwala. No article yet.
Bedwig. No article yet.
Sceafa. Supposedly an ancient king of the Lombards, mentioned as ancestor to multiple lines of Germanic kings.
Noe. This is Noah from Biblical legend. A different version (from Iceland) mentions Sceafa as son of Magi.

So, Figfires. What do you want to do with this line of ancestors/kings? Dimadick (talk) 22:25, 18 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I think just having a list of all the legendary kings and some information about them would be enough. --Figfires (talk) 04:33, 20 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

We could refer readers to the article mentioned by Dimadick, Anglo-Saxon royal genealogies, for information on legendary kings. Dudley Miles (talk) 10:20, 20 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

However.... That article doesnt contain all of the names that are listed above nor does it state they are legendary kings/provides information about them. --Figfires (talk) 22:10, 20 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

You bring up a great point, especially in light of Iceland's proliferations here on Wikipedia! I am searching into it however if you hadn't already seen there is a link to the Anglo-Saxon royal genealogies as well as List of legendary kings of Britain pages in the See also section of the current article's main page (List of monarchs of Wessex). Best, Altanner1991 (talk) 09:17, 1 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Alfred the Great marks the transition from Wessexian to English[edit]

I have kept the page consistent with the other pages, namely List of English monarchs and English monarchs family tree. Please refer to talk pages for debate, as the pages must stay consistent to benefit of the reader. Altanner1991 (talk) 17:12, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Please do not revert without further discussion. A portion on the pages (sections, notes, etc) can summarize notions of transition from Wessexian to English. This would at least keep the basis or "core" easy for readers. For example, "Edward the Elder and his predecessor Alfred the Great were disputed as to whether or not they were considered kings of the English". Altanner1991 (talk) 17:17, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The date of 886 is correct. Alfred and Edward never claimed the title king of the English. From 886 Alfred described himself as king of all Anglo-Saxons not under Danish rule, 'King of the Anglo-Saxons' for short. See Simon Keynes (2001). "Edward, King of the Anglo-Saxons". In Higham, N. J.; Hill, D. H. (eds.). Edward the Elder, 899–924. Abingdon, UK: Routledge. pp. 40–66. Keynes's view is generally accepted by historians. This lasted until 927, when Æthelstan conquered Northumbria and became king of the whole of England. Dudley Miles (talk) 20:59, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for voicing you opinion! Indeed, the key points here are that:

"English" is almost ubiquitously applied to terminologies associating with the Anglo-Saxons of this era, in fact it is the almost the more default expression of their culture.
When pairing sources with articles: English monarchs is not tied to the "state" of England, it does in fact include a timeline of the "English" "culture", language, etc, which is more free-moving and so can often occur before the formation of said state.
(resounding the previous point) Æthelstan would carefully be King of "England", but as we've seen through all of this documentation, indeed not necessarily the first "English" king. Such has been the debate in these issues, and according to the title of this Wikipedia article as it currently stands, Alfred the Great would thus be the more proper beginning of it.

Altanner1991 (talk) 21:16, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Why Alfred? Kings before him were just as English. Dudley Miles (talk) 21:56, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

In 886 Alfred's terminology changed from "Wessex" to "Anglo-Saxon", in other words as we commonly use, "English". It's just how we divide the language. Altanner1991 (talk) 22:04, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Many people who are not Anglo-Saxon are English. Alfred never claimed to be king of the English, whereas kings from Æthelstan on did. KIngs before Alfred were English kings. Wikipedia is based on reliable sources, not your opinion on language. Dudley Miles (talk) 22:39, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The consensus is Alfred the Great. If you want to voice other ways, please include sources before doing so thanks. Best, Altanner1991 (talk) 22:55, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Move discussion in progress[edit]

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:List of English monarchs which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 09:45, 31 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Merging 3 Pages[edit]

Idk if this was discussed but why aren't the monarchs of Wessex, England, and Britain on the same page? GamerKlim9716 (talk) 13:51, 27 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]