Talk:List of organisations in wuxia fiction

Too much detail

I've looked through the article. It seems that the information provided for each of the sects we currently have here is far too detailed. Isn't it supposed to be a list? I mean a short description on each sect will do fine. We don't really need to go into so much detail, on history, organisation and so on. Lonelydarksky (talk) 13:08, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Remove the word "list" and the article would be fine. As for references, avid readers please put in the name, publication date, publishers of about 9000 books still around...thank you. Skepticus (talk) 18:32, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for your suggestion. It's not an easy task though, unless all "Wuxia-philes" on Wikipedia can come together and work out a list of references. Redclifffan (talk) 07:21, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

Too Broad

It seems as if this article just assumed Jin Yong's Wuxia is the holy bible of Wuxia's fictional organisation. The dog beating staff is not presented in other author's novels, neither are many aspects and origins of Shaolin and Wu Dang. Either change this page to "fictional organisations in Jin Yong's Wuxia fiction" or put a subsection for each of them declaring "Jin Yong's version" or "Gu Long's version".Suredeath (talk) 19:52, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was no action for now. Let us wait a few months, when either (a) the article has been expanded and there is no longer a case for the page move or (b) said expansion has not occurred, bolstering the case for the page move. —harej (talk) (cool!) 20:41, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

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List of fictional organisations in Wuxia fiction → List of fictional organisations in Jin Yong's Wuxia fictions — Relisting due to a lack of activity. —harej (talk) (cool!) 23:45, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

This page is just too concentrated on Jin Yong's versions of the organisation, might as well changed it to Jin Yong's only. Suredeath (talk) 20:14, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

The article is not fully completed yet and "there's a lot of potential for aggressive expansion". I'm in support of your suggestion to split into subsections rather than move the page. The information about these organisations from other writers is less widely available as compared to Jin Yong's and they make up the minority of the entire article. If we split into separate pages such as "fictional organisations in Jin Yong's Wuxia fiction" or "fictional organisations in Gu Long's Wuxia fiction", I think only Jin Yong's page will survive because it has the most substantial amount of information. The other articles will probably be nominated for deletion very soon due to lack of information which denies them the chance to become an article. It'd be better to put all in one, but make a clear distinction between the sources of the information. Lonelydarksky (talk) 04:16, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Article is too long to read

As the article is very long, I think it would be better if we create "hideable" tables for the list of martial arts in each Sect and even the list of minor Sects. If so, however, the size of the article will be expanded by quite a big factor. Any suggestions?

Newfraferz87 (talk) 10:01, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Good idea. I was just wondering what to do about that. Thanks for your suggestion. I'll work on that next week. You can start first if you want. I'm planning to expand on some of the sects in the "major sects" section as well. Lonelydarksky (talk) 11:22, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

How about subarticles, using WP:SUMMARY style? On dial-up the problem of loading a long page does not go away by hiding something. 199.125.109.88 (talk) 15:23, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

I'm considering splitting those sections on sects with substantial content into separate articles, such as Beggars' Sect and Wudang Sect. We'll still retain links on this page to those separate articles. As for those sects with little content, just add a short paragraph for each to describe them will do. Any comments? Lonelydarksky (talk) 14:10, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

The article's long because of all those lists of martial arts and list of whatevers. Should they be removed? I don't think they are really necessary. Maybe that'll help to shorten the article a bit. Redclifffan (talk) 07:41, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

That problem's solved (or so I hope) with the collapsible tables. (Smile) Newfraferz87 (talk) 14:12, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

WikiProject Martial Arts rating

I just rated this article under the WikiProject Martial Arts rating guidelines as a Start-class article. Anyone who would like to contest this, or change it, feel free to do so. Ryt 007 (talk) 19:46, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Beggars' Sect Chiefs

Lu Youjiao was killed in 1260. We assume Yelu Qi became the new chief in the same year in his 20s. Guo Jing and Huang Rong died about 11 years later in 1271. Yelu Qi was probably in his 30s or 40 by then and it's not clear what happened to him then. Shi Huolong injured himself 1327 when practising martial arts without a sufficient level of inner energy as the foundation and went to seek treatment. He died in 1347, 20 years later. Assuming that Shi died in his 50s, he was in his 30s when he injured himself. There's a gap of 56 years only between the time when Xiangyang fell to the Mongolians and the time when Shi Huolong injured himself. Assuming Shi became chief in the 1320s, there's a gap of only about 50 years. It's not 90+ years. When Xiangyang was captured, we can assume that Yelu Qi died as well. The Beggars' Sect probably remained without a chief for that 50 years until Shi Huolong's time. I think it's alright to assume that Shi Huolong is the chief after Yelu Qi since the novels didn't mention what happened in the Beggars' Sect between that 50 years gap. Lonelydarksky (talk) 04:40, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

But we cannot be sure that the chief's seat was empty during that 56 years according to your calculations. I checked Chinese Wikipedia and surprisingly it showed Shi Huolong as the 22nd chief immediately after Yelu Qi. By the way, are you sure these dates are accurate? Redclifffan (talk) 07:33, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

I got them from Baidu Baike. I think they should be accurate. Since Chinese Wikipedia agrees with that, I think we should accept it as well here. Lonelydarksky (talk) 15:28, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Perhaps you're right. Right now, I'm working on a timeline (do forgive me for having long duration of pauses) on the Condor Trilogy page. (The timeline should then clear our doubts - whether Shi Huolong was the direct successor of Yelü Qi.) Do help out on that too. Thanks!
Newfraferz87 (talk) 14:19, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Splitting

Some of the sects listed on this page now have more "content" than they used to. Is it time to split them into individual articles? This article is getting slightly too long and difficult to read. Any suggestions? Lonelydarksky (talk) 12:08, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

• Just a suggestion - we can sum up all the detailed descriptions in a table, which is generally shorter and easier to read. Newfraferz87 (talk) 10:46, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

Do you mean to say that we present the information in a similar form as the timeline for Condor Trilogy? But the article will still eventually become too long when all the descriptions for the sects all fully complete. You can try experimenting on a seperate page first and let us see before you actually implement those changes on this article itself. Lonelydarksky (talk) 10:58, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

I split the information about the various sects into individual articles. I think the new presentation looks clearer and better. Please help to improve on those articles whenever you can. _LDS (talk) 15:31, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Ming Cult

There really is a Ming Cult is history, so when did it become a fictional organization? 121.7.185.239 (talk) 05:07, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

The "Ming Cult" in this article refers to the one in Wuxia fiction. No doubt it's based on the actual one but it doesn't really have anything to do with it. Lonelydarksky (talk) 06:17, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Think of the Templars, there is the romantic and sinister versions that appear in fiction, and the actual Crusader society of history.KTo288 (talk) 09:35, 14 September 2009 (UTC)