Talk:Little Annie Fanny/Archive 1

Movie

I have the Dec, 1978 issue; does anyone know how far the live movie production went?

comic strip

I've added back the description of Little Annie Fanny as a comic strip and provided sourcing to satisfy WP:V. Hiding T 15:43, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

This requires discussion. Neither the authoritative Don Markstein's Toonopedia, which calls it a feature, nor the ASIFA, which calls it a series, refers to it as a "comic strip" (to name just two RSs). It is not a comic strip in American English, and this is an American feature. Let's get things sorted out at Judge Dredd, please, before we create a mess all over the rest of WikiProject Comics. To reiterate, a comics feature is not a comic strip. "Tales of Asgard" in Journey into Mystery is not a comic strip. "Iron Man" in Tales of Suspense is not a comic strip. Before we go changing "feature" to "strip" all over the Project, this seriously needs to be discussed. --Tenebrae (talk) 16:05, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

I've added back the description of Little Annie Fanny as a comic strip and provided sourcing to satisfy WP:V. Hiding T 15:43, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

• I have reverted the reversion of my edit by Tenebrae to reflect the long-standing nature of the article, per convention of WP:BRD and so forth. I believe Tenebrae was bold and edited the article to remove reference to comic strip, I have reverted that edit and provided sourcing, and now we should enter the discussion phase. I will set up an RFC to aid us. I do not believe Toonopedia to be a reliable source based on WP:RS: Anyone can create a website or pay to have a book published, then claim to be an expert in a certain field. For that reason self-published media—whether books, newsletters, personal websites, open wikis, blogs, personal pages on social networking sites, Internet forum postings, or tweets—are largely not acceptable. The editing of this article pre-dates Judge Dredd therefore I am not sure the two articles are tied together. I'm not sure on what basis you can state that it is not American English to call it a comic strip when a publication from the University of Mississippi calls it a comic strip. Last time I checked Mississippi is still in the United States. I appreciate you have a point of view on this Tenebrae, but please don't edit Wikipedia based on that point of view. Please respect reliable sources. Hiding T 16:10, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

WP:SPS doesn't apply when the source is a published authority on the subject — as the late Markstein was. I'm very disappointed to see a longtime editor, who I believe knows this, writing something misleading. Toonopedia is a highly well-regarded source and it has been for years. Reverting an edit to push his POV and falsely claiming Toonopedia is not a reliable source is astonishing to me.

I believe that unilaterally pushing what he calls the British terminology onto an American feature is wrong and equally misleading.--Tenebrae (talk) 16:19, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

I'm out of the loop somewhat so I'm sticking close to policies at the moment. I hope you can appreciate, I don't know what has changed during my wiki-break. But it has always been the case that we prefer University Published sources over self published sources. And let's remember, I challenge the fact that by quoting an American text I am pushing a British POV. I hope that can be put to bed? Hiding T 21:19, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

Denis Kitchen, a comic authority and the agent for Harvey Kurtzman's estate, calls it both a feature and a strip here, so someone pretty close to the horse's mouth, at least, uses the terms interchangeably. Given the same distinctions we've noted between RC Harvey and Markstein, I'm willing to concede both terms are used for this particular comic.

That being the case, it might be arbitrary to choose one over the other. What do you think of the neutral word "series," which is factual yet does not favor one contentious term over the other. --Tenebrae (talk) 16:50, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

If we're willing to agree that it is American usage to refer to Little Annie Fanny as a comic strip then that's a good start. The next point I have is how to reflect it in the article. I have no objection to "series" as a compromise unless we're using a direct quotation. For example, I've just been through the Journal interview and Will Elder is talking about how he got the gig and he says "[Hefner] asked Harvey who he would recommend to draw the strip, and he said, Will Elder. Hefner agreed immediately." So that sort of thing I would expect we'd keep verbatim. Hiding T 21:19, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

<edit conflict>

• Chasing down more reliable American sources that describe Little Annie Fanny as a comic strip:

1. Chicago Sun-Times Feb 25 1993 "Harvey Kurtzman, who helped found the satirical Mad magazine and created the Playboy magazine comic strip "Little Annie Fanny," has died"
2. Milwaukee Journal Sentinel - May 29, 2001 "Little Annie Fanny, the fictitious star of the long-running comic strip in Playboy magazine"
3. Windsor Star - Aug 18 1970 "Little Annie Fanny, Playboy Magazine's resident comic strip"
4. Star-News - May 2, 1982 After Kurtzman left (later to develop the Little Annie Fanny comic strip in Playboy
5. NPR Jun 22 2009 "Eventually, Kurtzman went on to create the "Annie Fannie" comic strip for"
6. New York Times Jan 8 2009 "Willie wasted more than half his career on one of the most extravagantly illustrated comic strips in history — Playboy's “Little Annie Fanny"
7. New York Times Sep 29 1985 " Harvey Kurtzman is best known for his long-running comic-strip character Little Annie Fanny,'"
8. The Pantagraph Dec 4 1988 " Playboy's notorious "Little Annie Fanny" comic strip"
9. From Krakow to Krypton: Jews and Comic Books, Arie Kaplan, Jewish Publication Society, 2008 - the long running "Little Annie Fanny" comic strip
10. Sense of Wonder: A Life in Comic Fandom : a Personal Memoir of Fandom's Golden Age, Bill Schelly, TwoMorrows Publishing, 2001 - sexy "Little Annie Fanny" comic strip
11. Production Design in the Contemporary American Film: A Critical Study of 23 Movies and Their Designers, Beverly Heisner, McFarland, 2004 - the "Little Annie Fanny" strip
12. New York Magazine 21 Mar 1983 - satirical comic-strip heroine Little Annie Fanny
13. Masters Of Imagination: The Comic Book Artists Hall Of Fame: Dallas. 1994 Mike Benton - "the Little Annie Fanny comic strip"

• I hope that's enough to prove it is American usage. Hiding T 17:12, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

:I said that Denis Kitchen — Kurtzman's agent and a comics authority, who would know, — uses the terms interchangeably. And other authoritative sources use "feature" as well. This isn't a horsepower race, and I'm amazed anyone would take two hours to try to win an argument over this — because it's not a matter of counting up how many "points" you get and how many "points" I get. Kitchen says it's both. "Series" avoids having to pick one or the other. Another solution is to use both terms in the article, though I'd find it less confusing to use "series" consistently throughout.--Tenebrae (talk) 21:22, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

OK, wait: Above your list, you said the same thing I just said immediately above. So we agree. I don't understand — if we were in agreement, why go to all the trouble to make that list?

No matter. As we somehow always have, I think we've reached mutual consensus. I'm good with what you say: "series" unless (of course) a quotation. (I'm still staying away from Judge Dredd for now; this has been draining.) Extending you a hand shake, --Tenebrae (talk) 21:27, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

Article to be rewritten

I am currently rewriting this article (offline) to be better sourced and to correct some of the article's problems (for example, the original research incorrectly claiming that the Goodman Beaver comic featuring the Playboy mansion is what led to the creation of Annie). Therefore, the article in its current state will be replaced soon. If anyone watching this page has objections or suggestions, please offer them below. Cheers. Prhartcom (talk) 20:41, 26 December 2014 (UTC)

The article has been replaced as of this date. All important, correct, and sourced information from the original article was carried forward. Prhartcom (talk) 23:39, 6 January 2015 (UTC)