Talk:London School of Business and Finance

Edit Request

Hello everyone, I am an employee of Global University Systems (the group which incorporates London School of Business and Finance), and I would like to suggest a couple of small corrections to this article:

1 - “it cannot offer any courses or work placement to non-European Union students.” -> this statement is no longer 100% correct. LSBF can offer executive education courses of short duration (non-degree) to international students from outside the European Union. The school is accredited by the British Accreditation Council (BAC) and this enables it to sponsor international students for short periods through the Student Visitor Visa route.

Here’s the source on the BAC website: http://www.the-bac.org/accredited-providers/directory/15473/15473/

Here’s the visa eligibility criteria on the UK Home Office website (it states students need to be enrolled in an educational institution listed by a selection of accreditation bodies, including the BAC): https://www.gov.uk/study-visit-visa/eligibility

2 - “LBSF was founded in 2003 by the Russian-born entrepreneur, Aaron Etingen.” -> If the nationality of the founder is something notable enough to be in this article, it would probably be worth highlighting that he is also British. Here are a couple of references regarding nationality:

Recent Companies House records (see Arkady Etingen entry): https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/07933838/officers

This Education Investor article states he’s a British entrepreneur (this article sits behind a paywall, but there’s free trial if you would like to check the content): http://www.educationinvestor.co.uk/ShowArticle.aspx?ID=5946

I am not sure how relevant his nationality is to this article, but given that the WP community decided to make a reference to it, I thought it would be worth sharing the most up to date information with you. I will leave this point to the discretion of more experienced editors and page watchers.

Thanks everyone! Ping me if you have any concerns. I will declare my COI on the WP:COIN and on my user page shortly. BrandDude (talk) 10:25, 12 May 2017 (UTC)

• I have removed the 'russian-born' from the lead of the article as I cant see any reason it qualifies as a key main point that needs to be summarised (what leads are supposed to do). Its given an appropriate amount of coverage in the history section. Only in death does duty end (talk) 10:41, 12 May 2017 (UTC)

Only in death does duty end, thank you for your quick response and for taking time to look into this! BrandDude (talk) 11:03, 12 May 2017 (UTC)

• Re request #1, I have amended "it cannot offer any courses or work placement to non-European Union students." to "it cannot offer work placement or long-term courses to non-European Union students." The ban on sponsoring work placement remains. I have also added the sentence "Since November 2016, LSBF has been accredited as a short course provider in executive education by the British Accreditation Council." (with a reference) to the Programmes section. As this an encyclopedia article and not the college's prospectus, this is more than sufficient. Voceditenore (talk) 12:39, 12 May 2017 (UTC)

Voceditenore - thank you for your assistance. BrandDude (talk) 16:13, 12 May 2017 (UTC)

LSBF TV

Good afternoon,

I am employed by Global University Systems (GUS) - the company that owns London School of Business and Finance (LSBF); my Conflict of Interest (please see my Talk Page for all COIs). I seek to be fully compliant with all COI policies and hope to work with all editors for the improvement of the page.

Please can text along the following lines be added:

"In October 2018, the school launched LSBF TV; a social-media based platform for students to access a 14-week study-session for the AAT exams via a live-stream lecture from the school's tutors."

This can be sourced to the following publications: https://edtechnology.co.uk/Article/lsbf-tv-launched-by-london-school-of-business-and-finance/ https://issuu.com/pqpublishing/docs/pq_december_2018 (page 6)

With thanks - MrAttempt (talk) 12:03, 20 December 2018 (UTC)

Pinging @Voceditenore: for their valuable input. I've also added MrAttempt's name to the COI disclosure roster at the top of this page.  Spintendo  12:21, 20 December 2018 (UTC)

I would recommend not implementing this. It is a routine announcement, not covered by major education publications, and promotional in nature. It is suitable for the LSBF website, but not here. The edtechnology.co.uk piece is totally press-release based, and the PQ magazine piece (via issuu.com) is a short blurb in a free student magazine. Voceditenore (talk) 13:04, 20 December 2018 (UTC)

Hi all, many thanks for your input and explanation. With thanks - MrAttempt (talk) 13:05, 20 December 2018 (UTC)

Interactive Pro - Edology

Good afternoon,

I am employed by Global University Systems (GUS) - the company that owns London School of Business and Finance (LSBF); my Conflict of Interest (please see my Talk Page for all COIs). I seek to be fully compliant with all COI policies and hope to work with all editors for the improvement of the page.

I am requesting that the reference of "Interactive Pro" in the 'Campuses and locations' section be changed to "Edology".

Edology is the name of the e-learning platform of LSBF that delivers programmes online. Interactive Pro is the online-creation wing of GUS, whilst it is Edology that delivers online programmes.

This can be sourced here:

https://www.edology.com/about-us/

https://www.globaluniversitysystems.com/our-institutions/_content/edology

With thanks - MrAttempt (talk) 14:17, 21 December 2018 (UTC)

• Done. Voceditenore (talk) 14:57, 21 December 2018 (UTC)

Introduction restructuring

Good afternoon,

I am employed by Global University Systems (GUS) - the company that owns London School of Business and Finance (LSBF); my Conflict of Interest (please see my Talk Page for all COIs).

I am requesting for the removal of the introduction's sentence:

"The school is completely separate from and not affiliated with the similarly-named London Business School (LBS, which is the graduate business school of the University of London), the London Institute of Banking & Finance, or the London School of Economics."

In my view, this is not a necessary distinction to make as the text throughout in no manner relates to the other institutions. Additionally, to emphasize that LBS is the graduate school of the University of London really makes no sense in relation to the article subject.

Whilst included, the sentence causes the introduction to come across as having too many distinctions from similarly named institutions. I do not see the need for this and would like it to be removed.

With thanks - MrAttempt (talk) 14:27, 21 December 2018 (UTC)

• Done. The existing hatnote more than takes care of the distinction between London School of Business and Finance and similarly named institutions. Voceditenore (talk) 14:56, 21 December 2018 (UTC)

2010 Student numbers

Good afternoon,

I am employed by Global University Systems (GUS) - the company that owns London School of Business and Finance (LSBF); my Conflict of Interest (please see my Talk Page for all COIs).

The Financial Times article used as a reference in the 'History' section also mentions that by 2010 (the time of publication): "more than 10,000 students have passed through its doors."

Would it be possible to add this to the article in the same paragraph of the 'History' section? This is quite a landmark for any school and I think it would be of relevance to the article's subject and history.

I would suggest: "By 2010, over 10,000 students had studied with the school."

The FT article is here: https://www.ft.com/content/5ed79952-7a6e-11df-9cd7-00144feabdc0

Or, would it be deemed more appropriate to state current students numbers?

With thanks - MrAttempt (talk) 16:26, 17 January 2019 (UTC)

• Suspended licenses

Good afternoon,

I am employed by Global University Systems (GUS) - the company that owns London School of Business and Finance (LSBF); my Conflict of Interest (please see my Talk Page for all COIs).

I am requesting the removal of the following sentence from the introduction:

"As of 2016, its visa sponsor licence has been revoked by the UK government and it cannot offer work placement or long-term courses to non-European Union students."

This matter is well-covered in much greater detail in the 'History' section and I do not feel it is necessary to be covered twice, nor for it to be so prominent in placement in the introduction.

With thanks - MrAttempt (talk) 16:46, 17 January 2019 (UTC)

Reply 17-JAN-2019

   Clarification needed  

1. The request to add 10,000 students who have "studied" with the school is unclear. Please define what is meant by studied and whether this means graduated, full time, part time, partial term, etc.
2. Information placed in the lead section is primarily for summative purposes, in that it provides a pathway which the article intends to take in the prose. Occassionally article leads will contain special information deemed by editors to be of sentinal importance to a reader's understanding of the article. If there is a ban in place which affects a large portion of its student body, then this might be considered important enough to be placed in the lead. Other local editors should be encouraged to weigh in on this.

Regards,  Spintendo  06:47, 18 January 2019 (UTC)

1. The sentence "By 2010, over 10,000 students had studied with the school" should not be added. It is vague and meaningless. Was that the number who had enrolled, graduated with degrees, took short courses, went there for a while and dropped out, or what? The FT article doesn't specify and is rather a puff-piece. In any case, there are far more meaningful statistics about the growth in student numbers in paragraph 3 of the History section, and they are not referenced to a puff-piece. As for stating current student numbers, this is impossible to verify. Neither LSBF nor any other GUS-owned institutions publish that information on their websites. Compare to Harvard University's "Harvard at a glance" page on its official website. Because LSBF is no longer reviewed by the QAA, there are no reliable UK sources for enrollment numbers after September 2015 either. Apropos the lack of information and/or misinformation on the websites of GUS-owned institutions, see also my comments here on the talk page of GISMA Business School.

2. Spintendo, I have provisionally copyedited the article to remove the Tier 4 license suspension from the lead paragraph and instead, expanded on the consequences of that suspension in the "Programmes" section. The background leading to the suspension is also covered in the "History" section. It's debatable whether this should also remain in the lead. It was probably more important in May 2016 when the article was cleaned up and re-written following extensive disruption and sockpuppetry by undisclosed paid editors from LSBF as well as reverse disruption from disgruntled former students. Only 4 months prior to the clean-up, the UK government had permanently revoked the Tier 4 License. However, I have no objection if other editors feel it is still salient enough to restore to the lead as well.

Voceditenore (talk) 08:15, 18 January 2019 (UTC) Updated by Voceditenore (talk) 09:23, 18 January 2019 (UTC) Updated by Voceditenore (talk) 11:24, 18 January 2019 (UTC)

No objections from me. Thank you for your help.  Spintendo  11:59, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

University of Greenwich

Good afternoon,

I am employed by Global University Systems (GUS) - the company that owns London School of Business and Finance (LSBF); my Conflict of Interest (please see my Talk Page for all COIs).

I am requesting that the University of Greenwich also be added to the programmes sections as a degree provider (https://www.lsbf.edu.sg/uog/)

Can this be stated as follows following the fifth sentence:

"The school also offers a BA in Accounting and Finance, provided by the University of Greenwich."

With thanks - MrAttempt (talk) 10:22, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

Reply 28-JAN-2019

The source states that the "Pathway for Diploma in Accounting and Finance is subjected to case-by-case basis." Given the highly individualized nature of this diploma, it doesn't seem prudent to mention its application here as a blanket awarding available to anyone. Pinging @Voceditenore: for their input.  Spintendo  12:08, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

Many thanks @Spintendo: - MrAttempt (talk) 13:49, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

I concur with Spintendo, that would be quite misleading. This appears to apply solely to the LSBF branch in Singapore and is an 8-month "top-up programme" to that branch's proprietary diplomas. The UK branch offers no degree or higher education programmes validated by UK-government approved institutions. However, I've now added a very brief description of the Singapore branch programmes to the "Programmes" section. Note that the Singapore branch has its own website, is registered with the Singapore government's Committee for Private Education, and has CPE EduTrust certification (a kind of quality assurance award), although that is not equivalent to accreditation as the term is used in the UK and US. Voceditenore (talk) 14:08, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

Sydney Campus

Good afternoon,

I am employed by Global University Systems (GUS) - the company that owns London School of Business and Finance (LSBF); my Conflict of Interest (please see my Talk Page for all COIs).

I am requesting to include the fact that LSBF has a campus in Sydney: https://www.lsbf.org.uk/about-us/campuses/sydney. Can this please be added to the introduction's second paragraph's second sentence?

"It also has an international branch in both Singapore and Sydney".

With thanks - MrAttempt (talk) 13:49, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

Not done. It is a gross exaggeration and misleading to call this a campus or even a branch. The "Sydney branch" is actually Bridge Business College, a private vocational school in Sydney. It is not owned by Global University Systems. The sole connection with LSBF is that they offer a preparatory course for the ACCA exams via LSBF Singapore [3]. Voceditenore (talk) 14:35, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

Hi @Voceditenore: Many thanks for your time - MrAttempt (talk) 15:05, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

Removal of Vice Rector

Good afternoon,

I am employed by Global University Systems (GUS) - the company that owns London School of Business and Finance (LSBF); my Conflict of Interest (please see my Talk Page for all COIs).

I am requesting that reference to the Vice Rector be removed from the info box.

As you will see from the LSBF website, there is only reference to a Vice Rector in old News articles, and is not present on the Academic Management page: https://www.lsbf.org.uk/faculty-academic-management

There is no Vice Rector at this time.

With thanks MrAttempt (talk) 11:26, 9 November 2019 (UTC)

• Done. Voceditenore (talk) 16:04, 9 November 2019 (UTC)

Many thanks for this @Voceditenore:. The 'Organisation and administration' section details the following: "James Kirkbride has been the school's

vice-rector since September 2010." Can this be updated to better reflect he is no longer vice-rector? Such as:

"James Kirkbride was previously the school's vice-rector, appointed in 2010."

I feel the current sentence does not sufficiently reflect that he is no longer vice-rector and could read that he is still in in the role and has been since 2010.

With thanks - MrAttempt (talk) 15:20, 11 November 2019 (UTC)

• I removed the sentence completely. His name remains in the caption of the 2011 graduation photo, although I have now amended it to "Former vice-rector James Kirkbride at the 2011 Summer graduation ceremony". Voceditenore (talk) 15:48, 11 November 2019 (UTC)

Association to Advance Collegiate Schools of Business

Good afternoon,

I am employed by Global University Systems (GUS) - the company that owns London School of Business and Finance (LSBF); my Conflict of Interest (please see my Talk Page for all COIs).

I am requesting that the following sentence be added to the 'Academics' section:

"In 2019 the school become a member of the prestigious Association to Advanced Collegiate Schools of Business (AACSB)."

This is a notable membership body and we feel this is highly relevant to the page. All advice and insights from Editors is appreciated.

With thanks - MrAttempt (talk) 16:25, 27 November 2019 (UTC)

References

• Not done. Although the PR-based "article" in the source given describes it as "prestigious", simply being a member of the Association to Advance Collegiate Schools of Business is neither prestigious nor uncommon. In fact LSBF is only an "Associate Business Member" not an Educational Member [4]. You simply pay to join ($2500 per year) with very low criteria for membership. See [5]. This membership has nothing to do with academics at LSBF and belongs on the LSBF website, not here. Voceditenore (talk) 17:00, 27 November 2019 (UTC)

@Voceditenore: Understood. Many thanks for taking the time to look over it and provide feedback. MrAttempt (talk) 16:56, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

Campus location change

Good afternoon Editors.

We have noticed that a direct edit has been made to the London School of Business and Finance article's 'Campuses and locations' section by an incomplete profile called "Lsbf". We’re looking to clarify this error now. Currently, we are unsure who made this edit and if it came from within LSBF, but we are investigating internally so as to cease any future potential CoI edits.

Can the edited sentence please be corrected to the following?

"The main campus and headquarters of LSBF Singapore are located in the GB Building in the central business district of Singapore, with further classrooms in nearby Cecil Street."

We deeply apologise for this occurrence. We look to abide by the rules of Wikipedia and only aim to improve the page.

We also note the former premises of the Springleaf building are used in an image here. We're happy to support with an image of the GB Building if required.

Thank you. MsAttempt (talk) 13:08, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

 Done That seems to be what Lsbf did and it seems ok with me.  Darth Flappy ^«Talk» 18:50, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

@DarthFlappy: Thank you for your time on this.

References

QAA Assessments

Good morning,

I am employed by Global University Systems (GUS) - the company that owns London School of Business and Finance (LSBF); my Conflict of Interest (please see my Talk Page for all COIs).

Please could the following text be added under the ‘QAA Assessments’ header in the ‘Academics’ section:

“In October 2017, follow-up activity took place which resulted in two judgements being amended. The quality of information produced about its provision and the enhancement of student learning opportunities were both amended to ‘meets UK expectations’.”

With many thanks,

MsAttempt (talk) 08:35, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

References

@MsAttempt: I have slightly abbreviated the requested text and added it to the article. I put the reference into Template:Cite web format as I think that is the easiest one for online references. Let me know if you have any more requests that have not been answered yet. TSventon (talk) 09:45, 25 September 2020 (UTC)

@TSventon: Thank you for making the update. I believe that's all the requests I've made recently - thank you for your help. MsAttempt (talk) 12:11, 25 September 2020 (UTC)

LSBF Singapore website

Good afternoon,

I am employed by Global University Systems (GUS) - the company that owns London School of Business and Finance (LSBF); my Conflict of Interest (please see my Talk Page for all COIs).

I am requesting that the LSBF Singapore website link be added in addition to the standard LSBF website link in the information box. The link to the LSBF Singapore website is: www.lsbf.edu.sg.

Any insight from Editors on how to do this is greatly appreciated. MsAttempt (talk) 16:29, 28 September 2020 (UTC)

 Done  Darth Flappy ^«Talk» 18:04, 29 September 2020 (UTC)

Not-for-profit

Good afternoon,

I am employed by Global University Systems (GUS) - the company that owns London School of Business and Finance (LSBF); my Conflict of Interest (please see my Talk Page for all COIs).

LSBF is categorised as a ‘for profit’ institution in this wiki, which is incorrect. On Companies House, you will find the school’s Articles of Association

Article 4 of this document states that LSBF is a not-for-profit organisation. I quote the point in full:

“The income and property of the Company whencesoever derived shall be applied solely towards the promotion of the objects of the company as set forth in this Memorandum of Association and no member shall have any personal claim on any property of the company and no portion thereof shall be paid, transferred or distributed directly or indirectly by way of dividend bonus or otherwise howsoever by way of profit to member of the Company provided always that nothing herein shall prevent the payment in good faith by the Company of a reasonable and proper remuneration to any office or servant of the Company or to any member of the Company in return for any services actually rendered to the company or interest on money lent or reasonable and proper rent for premises demised or let by any member to the Company.”

As such, I am requesting that the first sentence of the Wikipedia page be changed to: “The London School of Business and Finance is a not-for-profit private business school in the United Kingdom.”

Any insight from Editors on this is greatly appreciated.

MsAttempt (talk) 09:22, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

References

The Article in question does not state that the school is non-profit. It merely states that its income goes "towards its objectives". LSBF is a wholly owned subsidiary of Global University Systems which is a for-profit education company. The LSBF accounts have not been filed since 2016, at which point they showed a considerable amount of "debt" repaid to GUS. The Articles of Association are dated 2015. I have amended the opening sentence to say that it is a private business school owned by the for-profit education company Global University Systems. Incidentally, GUS and its subsidiary UK companies have also been registered in the Netherlands to holding companies. They are registered as BVs, an advantageous move since the Netherlands does not require the full corporate accounts, etc. to be made public. Your link to the Articles of Association does not work. This is the correct link. It goes directly to Companies House filings. Voceditenore (talk) 10:45, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

Further, please see this 2019 article from the Times Higher Education concerning LSBF's status. Voceditenore (talk) 11:02, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

Dear @Voceditenore:

Thank you for your response, and we appreciate the edit you have kindly made.

We would just like to clarify that, regarding the LSBF accounts, the latest accounts were in fact filed in September 2019, and the Articles of Association quoted above regarding LSBF being a not-for-profit entity is from January 2018, as you can see on the school's Companies House page.

Thank you so much for your time and insights.

MsAttempt (talk) 14:18, 1 October 2020 (UTC)