Talk:MAS-49 rifle

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On 16 March 2024, it was proposed that this article be moved to MAS-49. The result of the discussion was not moved.

first found[edit]

Like the French experimental 7mm ENT B5 rifle by Rossignol (1901), the Swedish AG-42 Ljungman semi-automatic rifle and the later U.S. M16 assault rifle, the MAS-49 and MAS-49/56 employ the direct impingement gas system, which actuates a tilt-locking bolt ( first found on the MAS 1928 prototype)

first found ?. direct impingement gas system or tilt-locking bolt ? Tilting bolt used in hand gun in 19th centure (Colt 1911, Mauser C96, Mannlicher M1888..., ex.). Rife = Mannchiler M1885-1886. LMG : ZB 26, ZB 33( Bren ), BAR. In 20 cen: SVT, FN FAL. MAS-49 is SVT type, Tokarev designed befor 1917, width two handle on side. SKS like PTRS, one handle on back. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 222.252.121.72 (talk) 03:02, 8 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

M1911 Colt uses a tilting BARREL, not tilting bolt. Completely different design. Mannlicher M1886, M1888, etc, used a propped breech, not a tilting bolt, bolt remained on the same plane paralle to the bore. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.152.113.17 (talk) 01:25, 31 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Definition of Direct Impingement[edit]

Hello,

There has been a bit of controversy in the gun community on what exactly direct impingement is with most of it focused on the AR-15 family. One of the main points include whether or not a system is DI just because it has a piston. This article does take the stance that DI by definition does not include a gas piston. However, the MAS49 does have a gas piston, as do all Rossignol DI type guns. You can see that the gas tube acts as a stationary gas piston, with the end slightly flared out like a piston head which enters the bolt carrier recess that acts as an internal gas expansion chamber. By definition, this would constitute a piston, thus the MAS49 is a piston gun.

However, it is still direct impingement despite having a piston, and I see no reason why they would have to be mutually exclusive. The impingement is occurring directly on the carrier and/or bolt as the term implies, and not remotely like a long stroke or short stroke gas piston which must transfer energy through a piston rod or oprod of sorts. There are some that believe that direct impingement must only be from gasses striking the bolt/bolt carrier and not from gas expansion through a gas piston, but I do not know of any DI guns that behave in this manner, and since the exact definition of the term is still in contention, perhaps we should omit the lack of piston part until a consensus has been reached.

2605:6001:E7D0:7700:C53F:9442:70B9:7BE2 (talk) 06:31, 23 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

If the gas pressure is transmited directly to the bolt by a tube that's direct impingement. If the force of the gas pressure is stransmited to a moving part that is pushing the bolt, it is not *direct* impingement. The rest is just talk.

Requested move 16 March 2024[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Bensci54 (talk) 17:07, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

MAS-49 rifle → MAS-49 – WP:OVERPRECISION - there is no other MAS-49 that would necessitate the use of 'rifle' as a disambiguator. Loafiewa (talk) 20:00, 16 March 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. queen of 🖤 (they/them; chat) 19:45, 24 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per WP:GUNS#Naming. 162 etc. (talk) 20:50, 16 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The new title would not go against this guideline, in fact the specific examples that page uses do not contain a disambiguator - 'Heckler & Koch MP7', and not 'Heckler & Koch MP7 submachine gun'. Loafiewa (talk) 22:23, 16 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Exceptions to this are firearms named with military designations such as M16 rifle or AK-47. The official French name of the rifle includes the word "rifle", just like M16 rifle. Ifly6 (talk) 00:26, 17 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The M16's official designation is "rifle, 5.56mm, M16", and the AK-47's is "Avtomat Kalashnikova obraztsa 1947 goda", translating to Automatic Kalashnikov Model 1947, both of which seem to indicate that this suggestion is not widely followed, and that it has no real bearing on the more standard naming conventions that are used site-wide. Loafiewa (talk) 03:15, 17 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per 162 etc. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 15:50, 25 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.