Talk:Ma'oz Tzur

This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:

Judaism Mid‑importance

	Judaism portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Judaism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Judaism-related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.JudaismWikipedia:WikiProject JudaismTemplate:WikiProject JudaismJudaism articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Songs

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Songs, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of songs on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SongsWikipedia:WikiProject SongsTemplate:WikiProject Songssong articles
	This article has been automatically rated by a bot or other tool because one or more other projects use this class. Please ensure the assessment is correct before removing the `\|auto=` parameter.

Untitled[edit]

Is there a source for the statement that Jews have been using the German folk-song tune for Ma'oz Tzur since 1450? Lshanahaba 22:56, 23 December 2006 (UTC)Lshanahaba[reply]

No. See my comment below. This article has been spreading unsourced misinformation for years. 212.132.230.213 (talk) 09:34, 7 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Translation[edit]

Why was the name maoz tzur translated into "rock of ages"? A "maoz" is a stronghold or sanctuary, and "tzur" is a reference to God. I can see how "tzur" would be confused with "tzor" or flint, leading to the "rock" bit, but.... Really, the whole thing is rather incomprehensible. LeaHazel : talk : contribs 01:20, 31 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The conventional English tune sung to the traditional melody, which goes "Rock of Ages, hear our song, Praise Your saving power" etc., is clearly not a translation. Mo-Al 03:58, 31 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The Hebrew in this article is very problematic. I will go over it with a fine tooth comb as soon as I have the time. LeaHazel : talk : contribs 16:05, 1 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It's not meant to be a literal translation. The "maoz", the stronghold, is the "rock" (with the idea of a huge imperturbable stone representing divine strength). See Rock of Ages (Christian hymn) for the previous use of this phrase in English.--Pharos (talk) 07:22, 7 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Merge[edit]

I agree with the merge. Zargulon 20:57, 6 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Merge or delete the English "hymn", unless some notability can be shown. --Dweller (talk) 11:00, 11 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

"literal translation"[edit]

What is the origin of the text entitled "literal translation"? The literal translation of "לְעֵת תָּכִין מַטְבֵּחַ" is not "When You will have utterly silenced".--84.108.213.97 (talk) 13:11, 28 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

You are right, the current "Literal translation" is anything but. Zargulon (talk) 15:52, 30 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

" לְעֵת תָּכִין מַטְבֵּחַ מצר המנבח" is literly "when you will slaughter the barking foe".

if ther is no objection I will correct. Or maybe someone wanted to portry judaism in a nicer way? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.64.18.131 (talk) 20:05, 8 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Please correct. Zargulon (talk) 14:41, 11 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Link: https://www.thetorah.com/article/maoz-tzur-and-the-end-of-christianity — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2605:E000:1500:3DB:E0F4:323E:4752:47E8 (talk) 05:45, 30 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

tzel tzalmon = shadow of idolatry???[edit]

This translation is completely incorrect and another should be found. Tzel tzalmon comes from a poem of Kalir and has absolutely nothing to do with either images or idolatry or Christianity; it means "deep shadow." Tzalmon is a loanword from another Semitic language, in most of which tz.l.m. means "shadow," and is unrelated to Hebrew tz.l.m. meaning "image," as any competent translator should know. 2603:7000:6440:EB04:8D80:6BEC:217D:BD53 (talk) 16:31, 2 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

wrong German folk-tune[edit]

The article contains:

"This most popular melody for the Hanukkah hymn has been identified by Birnbaum as an adaptation from the old German folk-song "So weiss ich eins, dass mich erfreut, das pluemlein auff preiter heyde," given in Böhme's "Altdeutsches Liederbuch" (No. 635)"

Not only is there no source provided, but when I looked up the tune in Altdetsches Liederbuch, available via Google Books, tune 635 bore no relation to the one used in maoz tzur. So this unsourced claim is misinformation. 212.132.230.213 (talk) 09:30, 7 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]