Talk:Majin Buu/Archive 1

Boo vs Buu

Should this be moved to Buu? It's a less ambiguous name (doesn't need the (Dragon Ball)), plus it's the name which current fans know the character as in the US. Only early toys and some Japanese imports have the Boo form of the name, so far as I know. JRP 18:11, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

• I'm all for movin it - Super Saiyan Plough 07:51, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

Merging Evil Buu

• The current article says as much as it needs to say, the Evil Buu article has nothing to worth adding. Saying 'decrepit' after 'skinny' is redundant. Someone can delete the other article. Infinare 23:18, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

ya

Kid Buu's Strength

The article states that Kid Buu is weaker than the other forms of Buu's (because he is no longer fused), but absoring, as explained by Old Kai, brought his power down eventually to the froggy, fat Majin Buu (after absorbing the Grand Supreme Kai). Remember, after removing the Z fighters and Majin Buu from Super Buu, he reverted to Majin Buu (South Supreme Kai absorbed) and finally his original form. His strength increased, not decreased. Eventhough he was no longer a fused being (Goku and Vegeta crushed the earrings), he still overwhelmed SSJ3 Goku in power and speed; blows from SSJ3 Goku did not even weaken him...period and Vegeta was outclassed. It even took Kid Buu everything he had to stomp the cooking grease out of the fat version of Majin Buu, so Kid Buu was definitely a huge increase. It would have taken a SSJ4 Goku to deal with him one on one or a Kid Goku (tail extended again in GT). puk 01:22, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

When Kid Buu absorbed Grand Supreme Kai, he became weaker because of the pure goodness of that Kai. So the fat version of Majin Buu is weaker than Kid Buu. However, when when Evil Buu absorbed Fat Buu, the evil part became the dominant and his strength increased as Super Buu. Kid Buu is weaker than any form of Super Buu, but stronger than Fat Buu.

Bluesykillerhorn 15:00, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, that's true since SSJ3 Goku could barely touch Super Buu, but Kid Buu's regeneration seemed to be faster and he knew the Instant Transmission technique. Do you mean as far as Kid Buu's strength? puk 00:01, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

Yes it is 100% correct that Kid Buu is weaker then any Super Buu so why do people persist to claim that he may be the strongest. There is no way that this is possible so please stop writing it, and if you truley beleive this to be the case can you please explain to me how otherwise stop writing it.

Watch the Kid Buu saga over and over and over again. Supreme Kai clearly states that he is the STRONGEST FORM and ORIGINAL FORM. Goku begs Kid Buu stop with his energy ball attack right before he blew up the Earth. Why would Goku beg him if Kid Buu had become so much weaker and Vegeta was only able to stop his first attack but Kid Buu added more power the second time and neither of them could stop it. Grow up is what I have to say and accept that Kid Buu was the baddest ever out of the Buus. He beat Goku down and Vegeta and Majin Buu (Fat Buu). So stop changing it saying Kid Buu is weaker because it is clear that he isn't. I don't care how many times you have to watch the episodes but please stop degrading Kid Buu. As an athlete I can tell it doesn't matter how much stamina you can build up if you don't have the power there's no way you cause the damage that you want to even if you are crazy. Supreme Kai also stated that absorbing people actually weakened him from his original power so if that hurts your feelings. 131.230.153.86 22:41, 2 November 2007 (UTC)mcelite

More Contributions

• Wiki-star: I believe that this article can expand more. But we need the knowledgable individual to come out of the closet, and do so. If there is anyone out there, who thinks they can enhance this article, please by all means! We need you!!

Thanks! Wiki-star 07:42, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Proper Name

• Wiki-star: Editors should keep in mind that the character's name are according to what they saw. Try and limit your character indentity from "Mr. Buu" or "Mr. Satan" or even "Son Goku". Many fans or readers aren't really familiar with those words, because they never existed or said within the series.

Thanks! Wiki-star 22:17, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Um...what? Mr. Satan is said within the series. It's the ONLY name he has in the original version, as well as the uncut English version. Hercule is for edited versions so they can avoid the word on TV. It's also in the Viz manga for some reason...I assume out of familiarity? And I think they got Hercule from the French dub (something about having renamed Piccolo as Satan beforehand). Basically Hercule is the Cartoon Network name over here. And Son Goku, that's his name too. Viz even uses that one. FUNi kinda forgets he had a surname, but in the original version it's used all the time. Some of those close to him even call him Son-kun instead of Goku (Bulma for example). Piccolo often calls him simply "Son." Think of someone on a sports team, often times teamates call each other by last names rather than first. It's that sort of thing. If you want to get technical, Son Goku is named directly after the monkey king from Journey to the West (Son Goku being the Japanese pronunciation of Sun Wukong). So yes, there is a basis for some of those, because not everyone's knowledge is limited to what they saw on Cartoon Network. Onikage725 00:11, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Elimination Without Reasoning

• Wiki-star: Please do not remove any sub-section without thorough reasoning. Every sub-section within this article is very useful! Thanks.

Wiki-star 09:18, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Buu did what?!

To prevent from being temporally blocked I'm going to address my edit. There is a user who is adding nonsensical information attacks. For example Galaxy Ball which is based on the Funimation dub only that does not have a title from neither sub, dub, videogame nor even daizenshuu. Already littering most of the section useless drivels and opinions. I mean we may as call Majin Vegeta's final flash "Majin Final Flash" or add in his giant purple energy attack that he launched at Freeza. I can understand if the user would add in information to Buu's Galactica Donut or his Super Ghost Kamikaze Attack but don’t add any fan name to the title itself. If you can e-mail me solid evidence that attacks such as Super Special Beam Cannon, Galaxy Ball and Dimensional Warping is officially named. I will reframe from making such edits. Till then stop.

Gunsword 10:22, 20 March 2006

• Wiki-star: Ok! Let me go really slow for you, and i need for you to keep up with me!

• Is/Was there a specific name for the Buu that absorbed gohan within the series? Nope!
• Is/Was there a name for the Buu that absorbed gotenks and piccolo? Nope!
• Is/Was there a name for Kid Buu absorbing a kai, and becoming immensely buff? Nope!
• Did Kid Buu specify the name of his ball in the series? Nope!

What i need for you to understand, is i need for you to understand the word interpretation. The abilities that you are claiming to be "False" are indeed logical and are sensable adjectives. There isn't a specific name for Super Buu when he absorbed the Z-Warriors, but because of who he specifically absorbed, we can interpret his name. So for example, because Super Buu absorbed Gotenks and Piccolo, he is given the name: Super Buu w/Gotenks and Piccolo. His name tells that he has Gotenks and Piccolo within his being. This is obviously a fact for those who are familiar with the series. The same thing would go for Super Buu when he absorbed Gohan, he is named: Super Buu w/Gohan.

Now, for Galaxy Ball. If you play the Budokia Series, you'll notice that Buu is given specific names that aren't specific within the series. So for example, Fat Buu has "Angry Explosion" as an attack. Because a name for the move is specified, the Budokai Series is a perfect resource for information. Now, the Galaxy Ball technique isn't specified as a proper name within either the game or series. However, because Super Buu w/Gohan mentioned that he used the ball to destroy many galaxies, it can interpreted that the technique be called Galaxy Ball. The same thing goes for Dimensional Warp. Vegetto, Gotenks, and Piccolo all mention that Buu was tearing a hole to another Dimenion. Because this was said, you can conclude that the name of the technique be called, Dimensional Warp.

I am assuming that you aren't familiar with Dragon Ball Z. You seem to be the kind of person that looks up the information, instead of watching it. Dragon Ball Z has many flaws, and some of the information from the series have to be interpreted from the viewer, in order the make it more sensable. I'm not the one to judge, but i am extremely knowledgeable of the series. Whatever it is that you find to be false within the article, then please further explain yourself. If you have any questions, by all means ask. If not, i kindly ask that you do not eliminate valuable information from the article! Thank you.

Wiki-star 21:30, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

From reading your response I’m going to assume that you just sped through my argument. This time I want you to read carefully and slowly.

(Did Kid Buu specify the name of his ball in the series? Nope!) Yes it was in the (Budokai series) but that not the problem. This is further proof that you didn’t really read my statement. Now if you include that the name was not given in the anime or manga then there would be no reason for me to edit.

(Is/Was there a specific name for the Buu that absorbed gohan within the series? Nope! Is/Was there a name for the Buu that absorbed gotenks and piccolo? Nope! Is/Was there a name for Kid Buu absorbing a kai, and becoming immensely buff? Nope!)

The title in which Buu goes by is of concerns to me. Even though they are given titles in the Budokai and Budokai Tenkaichi series.

I going to quote myself (For example Galaxy Ball which is based on the Funimation dub only that does not have a title from neither sub, dub, videogame nor even daizenshuu.) Now Buu’s "Angry Explosion" was given an official name for it to go by, even if the name isn’t canon to series in itself (ex:Raditz/Saturday Crush). But what I don’t understand is why you feel the need to add unnecessary crap like "Super Ghost Buu Kamikaze Attack" or "Super Special Beam Cannon". Unless you have any solid evidence otherwise leave theme as they were originally were.

I find your piece on the on the Galactica Donut technique to be informative. However adding your own fanon names to attacks that already officially named is downright ridiculous. And so far you haven’t given me any proof as to why your own fan names should be included in the special abilities section. Though I wouldn’t mind if the names were common among other fans.

Does the Kuririn article includes his rapid energy ball attack? No Does the Piccolo article includes his blast that resemble the “Special Beam Cannon” that he performed on Nappa in the manga? No Dose the Son Gohan article include his giant energy wave that Funimation incorrectly named “Masenko”? No Does the Freeza article include that attack that he used to kill Dende? No Does the Freeza article include his gigantic pink ball of energy “Planet Ball” that he used in a filler? No Does the Cell article include his beam attack that he used on kill Trunks? No

(because Super Buu w/Gohan mentioned that he used the ball to destroy many galaxies, it can interpreted that the technique be called Galaxy Ball)

Is this included in the sub as well? When in any timeline did Super Buu exist before Evil Buu and Majin Buu absorption? I’m curious now. Can you provide me any proof? I'm serious.

So instead of providing me with any evidence, you just went out of your way to insult me. I’m not typing this to prove my superiority I just want the Buu article to be as accurate as it can be. Rather you have the same intention is questionable.

Gunsword 10:27, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

             Perhaps the galaxy ball is simply a vanishing ball as performed by kid buu super ment he destroyed the galaxys in kid buu fprm hes speaking like that he does remember kid buus memories since hes techicly the same character in adifferent form.thanks-userFatbuu

• Wiki-star: Please stop deleting information from the article. It was an attack that Buu performed, and so hence it needs to be explained. Unless you have a better name for the attack, STOP DELETING!. I'm just providing information of an ability Buu has. If you think i'm doing something totally illegal, then report my actions to an adiministrator. I have little patience for quarrelling. Thank You!

Wiki-star 03:51, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

If you don't have an official name, then you can't just make up one.

Fusion

I know about the Uub/Buu fusion against Bebi, but I just don't know how it was done. Was it via Potara Earrings? Or via Fusion Dance?

• Wiki-star: Naahhh... there was no special technique done. Fat Buu just decided to morhp himself with Uub. I don't know exactly how he did it, but it's very similar to the fusion of Piccolo and Nail.

Wiki-star 18:12, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

Evil Buu vs. Kid Buu

What makes these two different? Shouldn't they be the same as each other? Thanos6 21:54, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

• Wiki-star: Well for one Kid Buu is much more evil than Evil Buu. If you actually watch Evil Buu when he is released from Fat Buu, you'll notice he shows remorse and actually speaks.

• • No, no, I mean, shouldn't the process of "expelling all evil" PRODUCE Kid Buu? Thanos6 07:42, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

• Wiki-star: Well.... thats a good question. But, technically all Buu's are Kid Buu. Kid Buu started it all. He absorbed the kaioshins and became Fat Buu. Fat Buu is Kid Buu but nicer, and weaker. I really don't know how to answer you're question, but i can only guess it was a random decision made by the animators. Good question though!

Wiki-star 19:08, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Thats because evil buu IS kid Buu he just looks diferent because he comes out of fat buu michael jackson doesent look like he did before the plastic surgerys but that doesent mean he's and different person or a different form of himself.

Revert

I have just reverted the changes made by the previous poster who removed the 'Galaxy Ball' attack. As the attack itself existsed, despite the exclusion of the name, it deserves a place within this article. The personwho had removed it, it would seem, has been known in the past to blank pages, add nonsense and take info away. Anyway, just thought i would give this little announcement. f any one has any objections or questions about this, please let me know

Brad92 15:49, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Article Enhancements

Good day fellow wikipedians and contributors, wonderful to see you all still contributing! We are all one big family on wikipedia, and as a result need to remain on the same page. I have been witnessing alot of editing from contributors, dealing with reverting vandalism. Now, wikipedia isn't a perfect encyclopedia yet, and as a result we contributors need to do whatever we can to uplift it. Not everything within an article is a fact, but nothing should be an opinion! This article is long, which means it will be constantly edited almost everyday. So far, there is nothing in this article that needs to be eliminated. If anything, a contributor will enhance the article, instead of providing a new feature. So in conclusion, i hope we all understand our disagreements, and come to a truce and prosperity! Any questions, by all means ask away. Thanks!

Wiki-star 02:52, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

Please cite what website you are referring to when you say "the site". I know no site which is considered credible that can be used as a source to claim that Thin Buu is actually Evil Buu, and Evil Buu is actually Super Buu. Super Buu is a name used ONLY AFTER EVIL BUU BEGINS absorbing the Z Senshi. Finally, your overuse of the break command is getting ridiculous. The articles look fine without them, and your adding them in doesn't have ANY benefits whatsoever. All it does is make the code for the article longer. Please stop using them so much.

Daishokaioshin 03:28, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

Fellow contributors, we all need to understand that Dragon Ball Z has many flaws. Many aspects of the series aren't a given. For example, there is no specific name for the huge sphere of energy Super Buu w/Gohan unleashed on Vegetto. However, from his own judgement, we can conclude it's very own name. Another example, is that there is no known specific name for the Buu that absorbed Gohan. But, because he absorbed Gohan, the title Super Buu w/Gohan fits correctly, because it describes every bit of him. If there are any questions, by all means!

Wiki-star 05:02, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

The name for the Buu that absorbed Gohan is Super Buu. "w/ Gohan" is just for differentiating between the different primary fighters that Super Buu had absorbed at that point. And the people who are making these edits with the attacks names aren't even reading the talk page. They're just stubbornly changing things back to the way they want it, rather than to what is accurate and correct. We can keep trying to talk to them about it, but if they haven't listened to all the arguments put forth so far, it is unlikely they will suddenly decide to be reasonable.

Daishokaioshin 05:07, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Never mind them my friend! This article seems to be quite popular, as a result it's constantly being updated by someone. Therefore, you as a user of wikipedia, should do your part by eliminating the trash, and keeping harmony and facts. Rememberm you're not doing this for you, you're doing this for the benefit of others! Except for a few ifs and buts, you're doing a fantastic job Dai! Do you think this format should be carried to other DBZ Articles? Thats what i'm thinking!

Wiki-star 05:43, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

I'm only going to say this once: This isn't about you. What you'll "tolerate" is not an issue here. I don't care what you think or feel on this matter. We are working with FACTS. Here is a fact for you: The only name ever attributed to Thin Buu is "Bad Buu". From now on, we should use this name, since accuracy is what is important here. Evil Buu is called "Majin Buu", and not anything else, in the series. So "Majin Buu" is what he shall be called henceforth. If you have a problem with this accuracy, then that's frankly just too bad.

The alternative is to use the names I have been trying to put in place here, which accurately distinguish between the different Buus. Super Buu is a name used ONLY AFTER BUU BEGINS ABSORBING THE Z SENSHI. Thus is CANNOT be used to refer to ANY previous version of Buu. This is a very simple concept, and I don't know why you don't get it.

Direct me to a specific episode of the anime and a specific issue of the manga where the names you keep putting in are used to refer to the Buus you say they belong to, or else STOP EDITTING THE NAMES. UNDERSTOOD?

Daishokaioshin 06:04, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

First of all, i need you to stop addressing you're responses using caps. This is a discussion, not an argument! Next, you seem like knowlegable person about Dragon Ball Z. As a result, i have absolutely no reason to explain myself. Unless, you aren't very knowlegable of the show, and in which case you're just editing this page base on stereotypes. If you have watched the series, then you should know what i'm saying. If not, then tell me so i can address you.

Wiki-star 06:25, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Actually this IS an argument. An argument is a valid form of communication, in which individuals with opposing viewpoints present evidence to support their viewpoints and try to convince the other side to accept it. However, while I am presenting evidence to support my viewpoint, you are failing to do so.

I have no clue what the hell you just said in your response, but I believe that what I said was perfectly clear. Present me with the proof you claim exists that those versions of Buu are named what you say they are, or else stop editting the article to display incorrect names.

I use capitalized words to emphasize things. There is nothing wrong with doing so. If you don't like it, too bad.

Give me evidence or leave the article alone. Period.

Daishokaioshin 06:30, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

I see you haven't even answered my question. That tells me you're more interested in you than in the article! Anyway, i don't have time to be wasting on you my friend. You are far too disrespectful and arrogant for me to approach. Have a nice day.

Wiki-star 06:47, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Is English not your first language? That is the only polite conclusion I can make about you repeatedly ignoring my words in order to respond in some way that has nothing to do with what I said. You didn't even ASK a question in your response to what I said. I said that I didn't understand what you said, so you should have attempted to make it more clear. Instead, you ignore my clearly stated words that you should provide me with the proof of Buu's names you say exists, and start insulting me. "I don't have time to be wasting on you"? Who is the one being arrogant and disrespectful here? It certainly isn't me, and I hope by re-reading your own words that you realize that. If you don't, then you are obviously too far gone for me to ever hope to communicate with.

This argument isn't about you and what you want. It is about what is best for wikipedia. Trying to say that I'm more interested in me than in the article is a poor attempt at shifting your own failings onto me. It didn't work, and anyone with half a brain can see that by reading your responses to me. If I wasn't interested in the article I wouldn't be spending so much time trying to make sure it's accurate, now would I?

It is YOU who are going by what YOU want and trying to make the article fit YOUR OWN conceptions of what it should and should not look like and contain. If you truly had interest in the article being accurate you would have addressed the evidence I presented several times now in my other responses to you. If I'm wrong, then prove it. That's all I ask. You have yet to do so, and have instead resorted to flinging weak insults at me and acting superior because you know you don't have anything to back up your claims.

Daishokaioshin 19:41, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Alright guys, i think both of you are being disrepectful in a way. But what we've got to do is talk to each other about this problem intelligently so we can come to some sort of logical conclusion. I'm a alittle confused now as to what to call the two buu's names in question. Wiki-Star has a vlid point, and Daishokaioshin has a vlid point, so I can't make judgements. But guys, let's stop this little squabble and sort something out, without causing an argumenet, thinking each one of us is superior to the other, and that each one of us is right in what we say. Wiki-Star, i know you want to prove your point, but as a new contributor to Wikipedia i must say you've got watch what you say. Your expression whilst writing to Daishokaioshin and others who disagree with you can be somewhat nasty. I see you told Daishokaioshin that she cares about herself more than the article, or using such words like 'My Friend' in a sarcastic way. This form of expression isn't realy tolerated on this site. I agree that you should sort out this argumenet and come to a conclusion but not with disrespect. Hope this sorts some things out between you guys.

Brad92 07:34, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Ya know, I'm going to add something to this debate. Just food for thought. As far as Buu's transformation names, I remember going by these titles for them back before the dub had caught up (in chronological order): Chibi Buu (original), Huge Buu (South Kaioshin absorbed), Fat Buu (Dai Kaioshin absorbed, later Good Buu or Mr. Buu), Evil Buu (thin, gray Buu- the "evil" in Fat Buu vented out), Super Buu (Thin + Fat Buu), Buutenks (Super Buu + Gotenks), Buupinks (Super Buu + Gotenks and Piccolo), and Ultimate Buu (sometimes Buuhan).

These names are largely fanon, but they were commonly circulated back in the day. I'm sure there were plenty of others, but that's the set I had the most exposure to prior to FUNimation simplifying it to Super Buu 1/2/3 and such. I'm just saying that to point out that the notion of the Thin Buu + Fat Buu form being "Super" has been around for awhile in fanon. Now, as for fact, well a good reference is on daizex. Here's the link:

http://www.daizex.com/guides/transformations/buu/index.shtml.

To sum up what it says on that page- he's Majin Buu, pure and simple. According to the Daizenshuu we can derive further "official" distinctions- Majin Buu + Dai kaioshin = Majin Buu (Good). The gray Buu that defeated Good Buu is Majin Buu (Pure Evil). Those two fused together is Majin Buu (Evil). Every absorbtion made after may be distinguished by who is absorbed, but that's still Evil Buu at the core. Finally, the orignal form is Majin Buu (Pure/Genuine). Now, some don't trust the Daizenshuu because of the handful of mistakes made within, but I doubt anyone can dispute that Toei's "official" and Toriyama-contributed sourcebooks are far more trustworthy than fanon or FUNi names. Would anyone have a problem with the idea of adding that info in? The article lists all his forms by name, but the fact is he's Majin Buu. ANY name beyond Majin Buu is a nickname or fanon. FUNi looked to the fanbase when opting for names for each form, and list those form names to make things simple. I think there should be mention that any name of a form is a nickname, which ones where nicknamed in the Daizenshuu, and which ones were named by FUNimation. For example, people almost universlly refer to the original Buu as either Chibi Buu or Kid Buu. But neither is his name, only descriptors for fans to keep the transformations straight. We see that Buu last, so a Chibi and/or Kid was slapped on due to his small size. However Bibidi didn't create a monster named Chibi Buu. That was Majin Buu, pure and simple. This article doesn't reflect that distinction.

Onikage725 17:03, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Super Buu w/Gohan Facts

Ok i need everyone to understand something. I mean, it just makes common sense! First of all, Super Buu is powerful enough to handle Super Sayain 3 Gotenks. If this is the case, then he is radically powerful. However, Mystic Gohan easily dominated him, which tells us that his power is Super Immense. Now, Super Buu w/Gotenks and Piccolo, crushed Mystic Gohan and Super Sayain 3 Goku. Now this tells us that only Vegetto can stand up to Buu at this point. However, Buu absorbs Mystic Gohan. Now because Mystic Gohan is stronger than Super Sayain 3 Gotenks, according to his fight with Super Buu, Buu would become Mind Blowingly more powerful than ever before. The new Buu, now called Super Buu w/Gohan is stronger than his last form, Super Buu w/Gotenks and Piccolo. Now because Super Buu w/Gotenks and Piccolo is strong enough to handle both Super Sayain 3 Goku and Mystic Gohan, Super Buu w/Gohan would demolish them both. If Super Buu w/Gohan is this powerful, then he has the best chance of any Buu to clinch the title as Buu's most powerful form. So, with all this said, i need for my fellow contributors to stop editing that he is weaker than Kid Buu. We'll discuss it here, but until it is resolved, Super Buu w/Gohan should hold the title as Buu's most powerful form! Thanks.

Wiki-star 05:43, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

I definately agree with you here Wiki-Star. During the fight with Kid Buu, SSJ3 Goku was shown to be somewhat equal to him in strength (only he was at a disadvnatage due to excessive energy loss). Therefore if Goku seemed unble to even stand up to Super Buu w/Gotenks & Piccolo and was weaker than him, Super Buu w/Gohan would be the strongest form. It is unknwon as to weather SSJ3 Gotenks and SSJ3 Goku are equal, weaker or stronger than each other, but even so, Mystic Gohan was no doubt stronger than both of them. Not all of these things, require fact and Toriyama's word so that it becomes cannon. He doesn't need to tell us, because the proof is there in the manga and anime right at our faces. It's logical to state that Super Buu w/Goahn is Buu's most powerful form. Super Buu w/Goahn is Buu's most powerful form, whilst Kid Buu is Buu's most dangerous form.

Brad92 22:06, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

OK seriously, not enough people seem willing to comment on this but it does need to be addressed. I don't get how it could be a matter of debate, given the facts. Goku at SSJ2 went to blows with Kid Buu, and carried the fight as an SSJ3. Super Buu fought off an SSJ3 fusion, in his second form CRUSHED Mystic Gohan, and in his last form could only be faced via fusing into the most powerful fighter seen in the series (not counting GT). If Kid Buu is stronger than Super Buu w/ Gohan, then that would mean that would imply that SSJ3 Goku was just a notch under Vegetto himself. If Goku was so confident he could wipe out Kid Buu without fusion, if only he could fully power up SSJ3, then why did he feel so strongly when facing Super Buu that fusion was not helpful but NECESSARY that he was actually going to fuse with Mr. Satan? If Super Buu w/ Gohan was weaker than Kid Buu, and Goku went dead even with Kid Buu both as SSJ2 and SSJ3, then Super Buu w/ Gohan would have been EASY. Come on people, it's just common sense. Those facts aren't refuted simply because FUNimation lists him as strongest. If Dub quotes are golden, then we might as well go to Goku's page and mention how Vegeta was initially thought to have killed Grandpa Gohan. Also, the whole case for Kid Buu based on his "undiluted evil" is slim, because the manga itself states that Super Buu was quote "pure, undiluted evil" and "a beast of destruction." Fat Buu was barely an influence, enough to spare Mr. Satan's life, but not enough to prevent him from casually wiping out the rest of humanity or killing Mr. Satan's daughter. Considering that Fat Buu vowed to hurt noone ever again and considered Mr. Satan his best friend, I'd say Super Buu had any goodness in check and had only a vague fondness for one particular guy. One could argue that with the boys, Piccolo, and Gohan absorbed he injected fresh "goodness" into the mix, but it's plain to see how much stronger he got with each absorbtion. Onikage725 17:30, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Image Sources

• Wiki-star: I have added all the source information on two images in this article. All the images from this article are from myfavoritegames. So, it would very kind if someone could just copy and paste that information onto all the others. Thanks alot!

Wiki-star 03:55, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Gogeta/Janemba vs. Super Buu w/Gohan

• Wiki-star: Haaa... it seems i'm going to have to settle yet another dispute with more facts. Ok folks, i need for you all to understand something. Vegetto is the most powerful being ever introduced before Dragon Ball GT. How? Because the Potara Fusion is a superior way of fusing, and the fusers are Goku and Vegeta. Next, Janemba and Gogeta are both weaker than Vegetto. Why? Because Gogeta is an inferior way of fusing, and that he is stronger than Janemba. Now, onto the almighty Buu.

Firstly, i need for you all to understand that Super Buu w/Gohan had some distinct advantages over Vegetto. These include: turning Vegetto into a candy, or entering Vegetto. Basically Buu is no match for Vegetto power-wise, Vegetto would kill him. But Buu does have some special abilities that may give him some advantages on Vegetto. Now, not only does he have these abilities, but keep in mind that Super Buu w/Gohan is paramountly powerful. So powerful, he can easily clinch the title for Buu's most powerful form. And so powerful, he literally forces Goku to fuse with someone, to have any chance of defeating him. Now, it is with great assumption that i assume that Janemba is weaker than Super Buu w/Gohan. Why? Well, we need to head back to Super Buu to understand that. Super Buu requires a Super Sayain 3 fused Gotenks to beat. Thats ridiculously powerful. Now, lets talk about Super Buu w/Gotenks and Piccolo. His power crushes all characters in the whole series. Only Vegetto can compete with him. Now, because Super Buu w/Gohan was said to be a much more powerful form, His power radically requires Vegetto. I say that Buu is more powerful than Janemba, based on these facts. Now, whether or not he is stronger than Super Sayain Gogeta, thats definitely an opinion. But i'd like to hear what other contributor's have to say! Thanks. Wiki-star 04:11, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

...How is ANY of that facts? We don't KNOW how strong Janemba or Gogeta were, because they are NON-CANON MOVIE CHARACTERS. Neither Gogeta nor Janemba ever fought Buu or Vegetto, so there is NO comparison to be made. The only thing you were right about in any of what you just said was that those are assumptions and opinions. You've NEVER settled ANY disputes. You just make proclamations of what you believe to be true, and anytime anyone else disagrees with you, or provides evidence contrary to your beliefs, you start acting arrogant, insulting them, and then refuse to comment further when they try to communicate with you. Fix your attitude, and learn the difference between facts and opinion.

Daishokaioshin 04:36, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Yaaawwwnnnnn..... are you done yet? If anyone else has something more civilized to say, be all means! Thanks.

Wiki-star 04:52, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

...How is what you just said civilized? I was stating the TRUTH, and it you just helped me prove it. By going "Yaaawwwn" you showed everyone that you are an arrogant bastard who doesn't care about the facts, or anyone but yourself. Instead of addressing what I said, you dismiss it, because you know you can't provide any argument against it. We don't know how strong Janemba and Gogeta are. Period. That's a fact. Period. Learn how to talk with other people without being an asshole. Period.

Daishokaioshin 04:59, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Man, just keep giving me ammunition! I've wasted enough time on you, and i've decided to let you patrol these areas unaddressed! Unless you disturb the peace of the article, you're really a nobody to me. You're insults and disrespect towards me have earned you the right to be ignored and dismissed! Now like you said, DISMISSED! Now if you would please, i'd like to have a civilized communication with a thoughtful person! Thanks. Wiki-star 05:03, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

I wasn't insulting you. When I'm insulting you, you'll know it. I was commenting on your behavior towards me and others. But you're so arrogant and self-absorbed that you take all criticism as insults, and refuse to acknowledge anyone else might be right about something. No one is going to talk to you because you're not someone that is pleasant to communicate with.

Since I'm not interested in arguing with you, I'll say this: I am sorry if you took anything I said as an insult, as that was not my intent. But your ruining articles and your poor behavior towards me and others is not tolerable any longer. If you continue, you WILL be reported. "Thanks".

Daishokaioshin 05:16, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

• Wiki-star: Ok now that you have apologized for your notorious acts, we can maybe get somewhere. And if you haven't noticed, i am one of the major reasons why this article looks the way it is. This is the best the Buu article has EVER looked, so please know your stuff before you continue to insult me yet again! And if you noticed, you are the only contributor i treat this way. If i were to ask you who else i treat this way, it will be completely impossible for you to point them out, yet again exposing why i ignore you! This is why you need to be ignored, because you're a waste of time and energy. It's just life my friend, you pay your dues!

Wiki-star 05:24, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Dai, just becuase something hasn't been ofically confirmed by Akira or the manga/anime dosen't mean that fans can't make accurate assumptions on characters/villans power levels and strength and then compare it with other villans and characters. Normal Vegetto is about equal (slightly strnger) with Super Buu w/Gohan. Therfore if Vegetto is stronger than Gogeta in Movie 12, and Gogeta is stronger than Janemba, and Super Buu w/Gohan is about equal with Vegetto, it is logical to assume that Super Buu w/Gohan is stronger than Janemba. This fact is also strengthened with the fact that SSJ3 Goku seems to be somewhat equal (possibly slightly weaker) with Final Form Janemba, but he is of-course much weaker than Super Buu w/Gohan. Both of you need to stop criticising each other, putting each other down and insulting each other (your both as bad as each other). This site is about facts and what Wiki-Star said above is almost factual...it's not just a wild guess or assumption...it's logic.

Brad92 16:43, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Ok two things- first is a question about basis. Is this just a conversation? Because I don't see anything about Janemba in the articla at all.

Second, I'll weigh in anyway (just gotta). The only thing we can truly ascertain is that Janemba is superior to Kid Buu (and thus Fat Buu). He easily defeated SSJ3 Goku, and as Goku was dead, he didn't suffer as much strain to the body as he did when he went toe to toe with Kid Buu. Hell, Goku at SSJ2 put up a good fight against Kid Buu (just watched those eps again, I'd forgotten how good he did even before transforming to SSJ3), and he couldn't even shut down Janemba's first form at that level. So janemba is somewhere in the Super Buu level, but we can't really tell to what extent. It's likely that Gogeta was stronger than Gotenks, but that's speculative. That, added to Goku's inreased performance and Janemba's crushing of him, could lead us to think that Janemba is stronger than base Super Buu. The only thing we can say that is conclusive, though, is that Janemba > Kid Buu.

Now let me say this- Gogeta vs Vegetto can not be proven one way or the other. The Potara is a better way to fuse, but that doesn't necessarily speak to power level. They don't require an even power or size between those who wish to fuse, and the fusion is permanent. The lack of a time limit alone speaks to it's superiority, as it is pretty much the only reason Gotenks didn't finish Buu off earlier (and why Gogeta didn't end Shenron in GT). Any statement anyone thinks they have about Vegetto/Gogeta comparisons isn't official. Why? Like was said earlier, Gogeta is non-canon in both appearences. If anything, Vegetto can only really be compared within the series to Gotenks. Goku took the Potara to fuse with Gohan anyway, Vegeta was basically a last minute backup plan. At no point did any character say "Vegetto is a stronger fusion than Gogeta" because Gogeta never existed in the main series. The idea to fuse Goku and Vegeta via fusion dance never even came up. When Vegeta arrived, Goku was looking for a replacement for Gohan to hand the earring to. After that, they had decided not to fuse again, and that Kid Buu could be defeated without it. The notion of Gogeta never once comes up. Onikage725 18:05, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Disputes

Right, lets get this sorted out. I frequently see throughout talk pages, and even in the history pages of some articles that quite a lot of criticism and insults are directed towards other contributors. This must stop. Either you work with other contributors in a friendly manner or don't bother contributing at all. Insults and criticism just makes things worse. The best thing to do is co-operate in a manner which allows you and other contributors to sort out arguments, disputes or debates by stating the debate and then working your way through it as best you can so that you can sole it without discord.

Dai, Wiki-Star has done a marvelous job at revamping several DBZ character articles over the past few months. Wiki-Star is essentially a new contributor to Wikipeida, so he needs all the support he can get, especially with how well he has modified the articles. Sure give him some advice and criticise his work at times becuase that's the only way people can learn to become better at what they do. But I don't agree with going as far as saying all of his work is unnecessary, stupid and time-wasting because it isn't (I persoanlly love the edits). Give him some more time to adapt to the editing style of this site, give him advice etc, but don't criticise all of his work.

Wiki-Star, Dai seems to be a very factual person. Becase of this you need to research a little more or make your argument clearer so that he can accept what your saying. Wiki-Star, you also need to sto ptaking criticsm too seriously, it's a good thing because it will help you become better at editing etc. However I don't agree with how far Dai takes it. Your doing a marvelous job as new contributor, keep up the good work.

Both of you need to learn to co-operate with each other, only then will these arguments be settled. Your both great contributors, I can see that immediately with how much effort and time you put into these articles. I hope this makes things clearer.

Brad92 17:26, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Anglicized

This was changed back so I'll bring it up here. It seems to me that the line "from the Fairy Godmother's 'Bibiddy, Bobiddy, Boo' incantation, anglicized to 'Bibidi, Babidi, Buu'" isn't quite right. If someone has a better suggestion for conveying the point. However, the words were changed to the Japanese phonetic system out of English. The second set of names there haven't been anglicized. That word literally means to make English, and "Bibbidy, Bobbidy, and Boo" are the English words. The Viz manga strives to anglocize while maintaing the integrity of the original names, and they even simply use those spellings. Babidi, for example, is said as if the a were an "ah" sound, even in the dub. If it were anglicized, it would be an "o" just like the original word, because that's the vowel that makes that sound in English. I'm no linguistics professor, so maybe I'm not saying this right. But it seems to me that saying Babidi or Buu has been anglicized is like saying Yamucha or Bejita (instead of Yamcha/Vegeta) has been anglicized. Another example is Dabura. That's the spelling that makes sense in Japanese. Anglicizing that would yield Dabra, the word his name is based on (going with the whole theme, his name is taken from the phrase Abra Kadabra).Onikage725 23:56, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Wiki-Star's Purpose

• Wiki-star: Before i begin, i would like to take this time to apologize to Daishokaioshin for any recent disturbances. However, he or knowone else will stop me from trying to contribute. There is absolutely nothing within this article that cannot or should not remain within the article. The article is just about perfect. It tells you every information about Buu, so really whats there to do? I'm here to check up on the article, and also to add a few new information towards the article. However, i've decided that the article is long enough, so i'll leave it the way it is. No hard feelings Dai, but i need for us to work together insetad of compete. Thanks alot Brad for encouraging us to come to a truce, i assure you i will!

Wiki-star 07:20, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

No prob Wiki-Star, keep up the good contirbuting to the DBZ character pages. I'll be sure to help as well

Brad92 18:17, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Absorption

Can Fat Buu absorb people like Super Buu and Kid Buu?

Most likely. Buu is still Buu. Fat Buu himself is just Buu + 2 Kaioshin. Onikage725 00:40, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

So, for instance, if Fat Buu absorbed someone like Broly or Cell, would he become evil, or would he still stay good but with upgraded powers (I'm talking about after the death of Kid Buu).

More than likely he'd stay good, but maybe with more inclinations towards evil. I say that because when Kid Buu absorbed South Kaioshin he remained evil. Even as Fat Buu he showed little remorse for slaughtering thousands until he was told otherwise, and that was with two supreme deities inside of himself. Likewise Super Buu 3 was still quite murderous despite having Gohan, Piccolo (and thus the combined goodness of Kami, Nail, and Piccolo's own experiences), Goten, Trunks, and his own good half. It stands to reason that the same would work in reverse (a good Buu would maintain his sense of self if absorbing evil characters, but develop more "mean" characteristics). It's all speculation though. Onikage725 21:37, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

• Wiki-star: Fat Buu should be able to absorb fighters as well, because his body is the same element as all the Super Buus. However, he will most likely not absorb because he isn't as smart, clever, and strategic as the Super Buus.

Wiki-star 20:13, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Well Kid Buu wasn't very smart either, and Goku did comment on Fat Buu being a brilliant fighter (impressed by how fast he mastered Kamehameha). I think its just that for the most part Buu absorbs out of desperation (not counting the two Kaioshin Kid Buu absorbed), and the first fighter to give Fat Buu serious trouble ended up absorbing him instead. Onikage725 21:39, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

• Wiki-star: Exactly! The Super Buus are the most intelligent and strategic of all the Buus. This is proven through both their Absorption tactics, and manuever abilities out of danger. I would assume that Kid Buu has no interest in absorbing, because he only thrives to destroy. Whereas Super Buu wishes to be the most powerful warrior in the universe (which in case he was until Vegetto came). So in essence, all Buus have the ability to absorb. However, some of them just perform it more frequently than others.

Wiki-star 02:17, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Another thing: If the two Supreme Kais inside Fat Buu were to be rescued from his body like Gohan, Goten, Trunks and Piccolo were from Super Buu, would Fat Buu turn into another evil Kid Buu?

Shapeshift/body manipulation

i feel that the moving image is a better visual source than the other one and it portrays buu's childish behavior well. - Zarbon

Yeah but then again the animation of Buu is just taking it alittle too far. I mean, i'm not the one to say you are totally not welcomed to include it in the article. But, i'm just saying the image of Kid Buu there is just about sufficient. Wiki-star 06:01, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

then you can remove the regular image and leave the moving one because the moving image is a MUCH better representation of his childish behavior. - Zarbon

Theres allready an image that shows Buu's childish behavior. There no need for your animated image. Thanks anyways!

Wiki-star 00:32, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

actually..no. that image is a terrible representation. thanks for your idea, but don't revert unless necessary. also, try following rules and uploading images with correct source data so that the images aren't removed. all your uploads for the vegeta page were removed because you didn't supply the needed info. again, do not revert. - Zarbon

Ok i've tried it the nice way, but it's obviously failing! I'm not asking to remove your useless image, i'm telling you! Theres allready an image that signifies how playful Buu can get. If you don't like it, thats your business. Animation is not neccessary to prove how playful someone or something can get. It's been there longer, and you have no reason to absolutely remove it because your image looks better! This isn't a competition. If a contributor adds an image, the only reason you should ever remove it is through source information. Yes, i understand i am currently horrible at that. But i'm learning, and so should you. I have gone through this with another user, and i'm warning you that if you shouldn't come to mutualism here, both you and i will suffer the consequences. If thats fine with you, then it's fine with me. I don't have time to be quarreling and wasting my fingers on the likes of you. I'd like to contribute and improve wikipedia. This is a very divine a precious priviledge we need to take to the fullest all while respecting it! Thanks again!

Wiki-star 05:12, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

right now the only thing you're doing is quarreling and by referring to "the likes of you", you are criticising the existence of contributors in wikipedia. the image stays. you don't own the rights to wikipedia and you surely do not decide what's better. the case has been proven. you don't like it, bring it forth to debate with other members. however, do not revert because all you'll be doing is pushing yourself to a ban because of a revert war. your picture can stay, but the better representation must stay as well. - Zarbon

I've allready explained to you why your image is useless. I'll just make sure it stays off the article by constantly deleting it!

Wiki-star 04:58, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

that is moronic behavior. I will try my best to have you banned if you continue. you don't own the buu page. - Zarbon

Yes you're right, i don't own the Buu page. However, i contribute greatly towards it's success. So therefore, i have a say to what is right or wrong in this article. This is my 5th time responding to you. This tells me that you're more interested in the success of your image, than the success of the article. Theres allready enough images to represent each special ability Buu has! I've allready explained myself and my case with you adding in that image. I'll just keep deleting!

Wiki-star 20:39, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

and that's why you will get banned, for revert vandalism. - Zarbon

Both of you need to chill out for a second. If I recall, it's only vandalism if a consensus has decreed a page should be a certain way. So, gather the other editors and talk about it before accusing the other of vandalism. Next, Wiki-star, no one has privelege over a page because they contributed more towards it. Finally, and most importantly, there are way too many pictures on here. I'm on dial up right now and it took forever to load. Jesus Christ has around ten, Buu doesn't need more than that. I can understand having a picture of Kid Buu, Super Buu, Fat Buu etc, but not of every incarnation of Superbuu, nor a picture of every attack, or a picture of Kid Buu before he does an attack, or as he is killed by an attack. Wikipedia is not a picture book. 38 pictures is far too many. Trim them down before even thinking of adding more. I know you guys are prowd of this page, but take a tip from the Frieza page. It has about 8 images, and is much shorter. It does not have an image of every attack and does fine without it, so neither does Buu. One good thing they did is the page has one picture featuring the major forms of Frieza, if you could find one of those (properly sourced and such and such), you could save some space and not sacrifice anything. Also, do keep up on the vandalism in the page. The middle section is broken, I'm going to go fix it if no one got to it while I was typing this. --Orion Minor 02:16, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

I'm sorry but i'm not the kind of user to be wasting time. I come on wikipedia, and contribute as most, and as best as i can. I am a contributo, an if i'm correct all contributors have a say with whats right or wrong with an article. Why? Because they contributed or even made the article come in to existence. In my opinion this Buu article is great. It's very well organized and the information is just about accurate. What Zarbond here is trying to do, is insert another image for an ability Buu has. Like you said Minor, there are too many images in the article. This user is adding in more images, and the worst part about it is that it is not neccassary!!

Yes, this article is clogged with images. However just about all of them have a purpose! If this user can't think about what he or she is doing, then thats their buisness. I've allready explained why the image is useless. If you fail to understand, after i have thoroughly provided an explanation, oh well. Thats just life, you have ups and downs!

Wiki-star 02:57, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Though they may have a purpose, an images informational value can be outweighed by many things. I understand that Super Buu with Piccolo shows me what he looks like, but I got that information from the text, which loads faster and is more open to change and refinement. Back to the point of having a say, I'm not saying you don't have a right to an opinion. Quite the opposite, you have as much a say as anyone else. Just be aware that you language, which is fairly aggressive, could be read to imply that you have a greater say due to your amount of work put into the article. I think this discussion could benefit from a cooler tone; from everyone. --Orion Minor 03:49, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

yes, thank you orion minor for coming in and checking this out. this member has been told before on numerous occasion. he's uploaded tons and tons of images for the same character. Just two or so days ago, he uploaded like 60 images for the Vegeta page and they were all deleted. Now, i'm not saying that it's bad or wrong, but seriously, i only uploaded one picture and it's a more effective picture than his 40 pictures combined on the whole page. seriously, he thinks that just cause he uploaded them, there's no one else allowed to upload anything. i'm leaving it up to you to delete some of his uploads, because about the loading thing, you are right. the page is more cluttered than any other. i made lots of pages previously, and i kept the pictures to a maximum of 6. there's seriously no need to upload 60 images to get the message across and this wiki-star fellow is overdoing it completely. i believe that one picture from me, and another 10 or so from him is enough. again, i am leaving it to you orion minor to delete the rest of his images. the one i did put up is the moving buu, the only moving representation on the whole page. i had the idea of putting it in after checking out the Venom (comics) page. - Zarbon

the page being slow is true. i tried going to a dial-up comp and the page takes like 5 minutes to load. so i deleted exactly half of the 40 odd images. - Zarbon

Unfortunately, Wiki-Star is correct about this. The moving picture is low-quality, doesn't show anything that can't be deduced from a still picture, and so small that detail can't be made out very well, even if it weren't all blocky and poor quality. Thank you for deleting all those unnecessary images, but the still picture of Buu is better than the moving one.

Daishokaioshin 23:46, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

• Wiki-star: Ok now you've really got me angry Zarbond! How dare you delete another image that's equally, if not more neccessary in replace of your own. I mean, thats just shocking man. But you know what, i'll just keep deleting! Have a nice day.

Wiki-star 23:43, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

• first off, you need to stop referring to me as Zarbond you immature child. Second, how dare you constantly revert something with no insight of the material. And finally, the 20 odd pictures is still too many. Frieza and Cell, whom are both more important, each have only 6 to 8 pictures. the page is still too slow, so this calls for less pictures. thank you daishaokaioshin for your observation of the amount of pictures as well. i've left 7 pictures, and that should be enough and shouldn't slow down the loading time. Now, it's better in comparison. Do not add any more pictures to the buu page. - Zarbon

• Wiki-star: Ok now you have officially gone over the limit! If your computer is too slow, then thats your buiness. The article shouldn't have to suffer because you are. I'll re-add 50% of the images you deleted, because i believe they all have a substantial purpose within the article. Have a nice day!

Wiki-star 00:36, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

• • Page looks much better now, though I might have traded keeping the Uub picture for some other picture being deleted. Good job Zarbon, you've really turned out great yourself. And keep in mind Wiki, Zarbon did listen, the animation is gone. The page is much better now. --Orion Minor 01:25, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

thank you orion minor. another person who sees my way. of course if wiki-star pursues in vandalizing the page with constant additions of photos it will result in a ban for him. i'm counting on all the people to keep this wiki-star fellow in line. - Zarbon

Attack Names

Look people. ANY name that I added (and a few others I saw added at the same time) of late has been either from the Japanese version or from the Daizenshuu attack lists. Will somebody please explain to me how Dragon Ball Z Budokai 2 or Dragon Ball Z Budokai Tenkaichi names are considered more factual than that? Angry Explosion is Budokai 2, 3, and the unrelated Tenkaichi. Revenge Death Bomber, as far as I can tell, is ONLY Tenkaichi. Someone please tell me where Atari translations fall in under Dragon Ball canon. If you want to consider videogame names official, then you should realize that Dragon Ball Z 1,2,3, and Dragon Ball Z: Sparking! (the Japanese names of the previously mentioned games) all use the Daizenshuu attack lists just like EVERY other DBZ game, since before they were even bringing them to the states, and not every English speaking fan's DBZ experience is limited to a handful of PS2/GC games. They way it was it would list the most official name and then mention the dub name or video game name. Please tell me how excluding information from official attack lists in favor of English VG names (which btw are inconsistent- Tenshinhan's Kikoho and it's one upgrade have 4 names between VG and dub, and I DARE you to look at the Supersonic Warriors 2 attack lists without getting a headache) and fanon names exclusively without the other information is more conclusive for the encyclopedia. And don't say "this is English Wikipedia" because there were English speaking fans before Saban picked it up, there's a manga that contradicts the anime dub by striving for authentic translation, there are two dubs of the anime spotchy reputations, two other English dubs in other countries (The US is NOT the only country to speak English, and this is Enlgish wiki, not America wiki), video games with inconsistent attack names, and a pen and paper RPG. So English DBZ has a large number of conflicting sources, and that's before you factor in fanon information. Onikage725 22:01, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Japanese Names

• Wiki-star: I never understand why is it that the japanese name counts more than any other name. Why is this? Did the Japanese originated this cartoon or what? Thanks!

Wiki-star 05:15, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Yes, that's exactly right. It is also the most consistent version. The US manga tries to stay faithful and does a decent job, but for non-manga material... well the US anime has a very checkered past, and there are no officially licensed translations of the Daizenshuu. So it's best to simply use those original sources. As for my statement of the US dub, one can argue familiarity but I counter that there are plenty of fans in the US who don't even watch the dub, and there were fans before there even was a dub (the series was nearly a decade old before we saw the Pilaf Saga). Also, the Japanese version is a click away on the dvd's. So it's not a non-presence in the states. And the fact is, this is an encyclopedia. We should strive for accuracy. The US dub has been inconsistent. There are multiple english dubs, for one thing. There's the FACT that most of the script for a good percentage of the series was re-written from scratch. Attack names were mostly ignored or renamed. The Masenko didn't get a name until FUNi took over. I'm pretty sure the Big Bang Attack wasn't named until a scene where in the original Vegeta didn't even call out the name (as opposed to when he first used it on #19). Destructo Disk? The word Destructo sounds like something a 6 y/o would invent on the playground (that or a bad Pre-Crisis DC Comics villain). Kienzan (Energy Circle Slicer) directly describes the ability. Which would you consider more factual? It's also inconsistent in that some names they use from the original (Kamehameha, Masenko, Kyodaika), some seek to translate to some degree or another (Guided Scatter Shot, Evil Containment Wave, Wolf Fang Fist, Dragon Fist), and others they completely make up (sometimes for attacks that didn't have a name, like Raditz's generic charge up for an unreleased attack that we now know as either the Birdy or Double Sunday). Onikage725 21:49, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

• Wiki-star: Well thats nice, however we don't live in Japan. We live in the English version of Wikipedia. That means only the english dub of Dragon Ball Z. If a reader wants to know the Japanese name, they can go check out the Japanese portion of the website. Until then, please use the english names only! Thanks!

Wiki-star 04:56, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Do you have a problem with the way it looks now? Also, for language precedent, I urge to to look at ANY other character page, List of Dragon Ball special abilities (all of which give preference to the original version, while mentioning dub or VG names where appropriate) and Dragon Ball canon (which clearly states that the original work is the highest authority). There's no need for this article to be the odd-man out. I have seen you plug the Vegeta and Vegetto articles, and those use original names over video game or fan-based ones. Onikage725 21:56, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Fat Buu's Healing

Wiki-star, maybe I'm just not looking in the right place (it is pretty late in the day), but can you point me to the part where this was already explained? I added it because I didn't see it on the list. His regeneration is there of course, but I was writing about Fat Buu's ability to heal others (presumably gained from absorbing Dai Kaioshin). Let me know if it's a mix up with his own personal regeneration and I'll re-add it. If not, just point me to the right place and I apologize for the double info. Onikage725 03:23, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

• Wiki-star: Thats ok my friend! Theres no reason to apologize for anything, we all make mistakes. Now, first things first. Fat Buu isn't the only Buu to perform a Healing ability. If he can do, just about any other Buu can. The reason i said it was allready explained, was because it was under Buu's Henka Beam Technique. That technique isn't just for changing, but also used for other helpful tasks. So i'd suggest writing any additional information about Buu healing under there. It'll save space within this allready long article!

Wiki-star 06:06, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

I have to disagree Wiki-star. As for the subject header here, I said Fat Buu's for expediency. In the article I just mentioned that he was the one who did it, mainly because no other Buu ever did. I know they could, because Buu is Buu regardless, but they never did. Just like the Henka Beam section doesn't mention Evil Buu, for example. Not that he couldn't, but the articles just mention who actually used it. Also, the technique isn't Henka Beam. The two have completely seperate listings in the Daizenshuu. Also, the Henka Beam is done with the forlock (with the sole exception of Majin Uub in GT), whereas Fat Buu used his hands for healing. Onikage725 12:14, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Article Images

• Wiki-star: Ok fellow contributors, here me out here. All of the images in this article each serve a purpose. The images under the "Forms/Transformations" section, are there to visualize the form of Buu. There is no reason to not have them there. Now, the images under Buu's abilities are debateable as to which images can be deleted. I'm not trying to say do not delete the images, because i will agree that the article is clogged. However, Zarbond eliminated FAR too many images that did not need to be eliminated. I want you to understand something. Yes, i'm sorry if you're computer takes forever to load the images. However, that is still not an excuse for the article itself to suffer, because you're suffering. (And Zarbond, i don't mean to be rude, but who uses dial-up anymore? I mean, it's the 21st century now man!). Until we debate on why 75% of the images in this article must go, i ask of you all to leave them alone. We'll discuss it here. Thanks!

Wiki-star 06:48, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

More people use dialup than any other form of internet. Yes, we should all be able to use broadband now that it is the 21st century. We should all also be free of war and poverty, but that simply is not the case. As I can see it now, you have two people saying for the pictures to go (not counting Kafziel, who I saw Zarbon spoke to earlier on his talk page). Readers are not stupid, they do not need pictures to help them understand. Look at WP:NOT and you can see in the talk pages discussions about pictures. There is also the more serious fair use policy, which many people refuse to acknowledge. The pictures of a show are copyrighted. It's ok for you to post them onto your forums or fan sites, but Wikipedia is not a fan site. Wikipedia is a site that has reached the level of recognition and distribution that it has to be careful about what it puts up. The understanding has been that a limited number of screenshots is appropriate if they are critically important. 38 is not limited. 10 is not limited. One picture of Kid buu is fine. Pictures of him emerging from smoke (I does not matter if it seems cool or personifies the character), fighting, using moves, dying, etc. is wrong. These are the pictures the page really needs: Fat Buu, Old Buu, Super Buu, Kid Buu, Uub, that's all I would put. I'd have just put the group shot of the Buu's and the Uub image. So Zarbon did not do something extreme, he actually lies in the middle, keeping 8. And his name is Zarbon. --Orion Minor 19:08, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

• thank you orion minor for your help on this issue. and thank you also for pointing out that wiki-star should not tease other member's names. on another note, wiki-star i do not use dial-up. i use a very fast cable connection. however, for the people who do use dial-up, it's a better consensus. and more importantly, as orion minor pointed out, having 40 images on a page is rather overdoing it for a wikipedia article. so going by the rules alone, the amount of 7 for this one single character is enough. - Zarbon

Length

Holy crap, this article is enormously long. I would suggest either cleaning out the DBZcruft or splitting this page into sections. See Wikipedia:Article size. Isopropyl 23:22, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Strongest Form

I feel there is an incredible error on this page. It states that Kid Buu is Buu's strongest form, but this is untrue if you pay attention. Kid Buu is indeed the most dangerous because he has no reasoning or remorse, but Super Buu w/Gohan is his strongest form. Evidence: Super Saiyan 3 Goku went head on with Kid Buu, yet if Kid Buu was the strongest, Goku would've been defeated in seconds since Goku and Vegeta couldn't do anything to Super Buu w/Gohan and had to fuse into Vegetto to do harm.

Super Buu is actually stronger than Kid Buu as well. Super Saiyan Gotenks outclasses Super Saiyan 3 Goku and Goku even admits to this. Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks fights evenly with Super Buu until his fusion ends. Then Mystic Gohan decimates Super Buu. This lil tidbit is important because you have to remember Mystic Gohan is the strongest un-fused warrior and hence is stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Goku. Evidence: Gohan has been stated numorous times throughout the manga to have the most potential of all the Z-Warriors. Mystic Gohan is Gohan at his full potential.

More Evidence that Super Buu is stronger than Kid Buu. When Buu became Super Buu w/ Piccolo, Goku smiled saying "Gohan can handle you now." Goku is a saiyan and loves to fight so why not fight and defeat Buu right there? Because he knew he couldn't. When inside Buu's head after pulling Gohan, Goten, Trunks, & Piccolo from their pods, Vegeta wants to blast his way out and fight Buu and Goku warns him not too, citing that even though Buu had lost a lot of energy, he was still far too much for them to handle together and then blamed Vegeta for destroying the Potara. However, he calmly accepted the offer to fight Kid Buu, even saying he could've defeated him had he gone all out from the start.

This article needs to be corrected. Super Buu w/Gohan > Super Buu w/Gotenks > Super Buu w/Piccolo > Super Buu > Kid Buu > Majin Buu > Evil Buu > Mr. Buu

(what if fusions from Budokai 2 included: Super Buu w/Gohan > Super Buu w/Gotenks > Super Buu w/Vegeta > Super Buu w/Cell >Super Buu w/Piccolo > Super Buu w/ Frieza >/= Super Buu w/Yamcha & Tien > Super Buu > Kid Buu > Majin Buu > Evil Buu > Mr. Buu)

• Wiki-star: It is not a 100% fact that Super Buu w/Gohan is Buu's strongest form. However, there are far more logical reasons to proove that he is, than any other Buu. This is why he is strongly assumed as Buu's most powerful form. Wiki-star 14:50, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

-What are you talking about? He clearly is stronger than all other Z characters other than Vegeto, that kinda clearly makes him the strongest buu

• Wiki-star: Saying that Super Buu w/Gohan is buu's most powerful form is 100% an opinion. Yes, you can back it up, however you have no resources that say the same thing. As a result, you can only assume that he is Buu's most powerful form based on evidence from the series.

Does this make any sense to you? Wiki-star 19:14, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Article Images

• Wiki-star: Ok fellow contributors, here me out here. All of the images in this article each serve a purpose. The images under the "Forms/Transformations" section, are there to visualize the form of Buu. There is no reason to not have them there. Now, the images under Buu's abilities are debateable as to which images can be deleted. I'm not trying to say do not delete the images, because i will agree that the article is clogged. However, Zarbond eliminated FAR too many images that did not need to be eliminated. I want you to understand something. Yes, i'm sorry if you're computer takes forever to load the images. However, that is still not an excuse for the article itself to suffer, because you're suffering. (And Zarbond, i don't mean to be rude, but who uses dial-up anymore? I mean, it's the 21st century now man!). Until we debate on why 75% of the images in this article must go, i ask of you all to leave them alone. We'll discuss it here. Thanks!

Wiki-star 06:48, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

More people use dialup than any other form of internet. Yes, we should all be able to use broadband now that it is the 21st century. We should all also be free of war and poverty, but that simply is not the case. As I can see it now, you have two people saying for the pictures to go (not counting Kafziel, who I saw Zarbon spoke to earlier on his talk page). Readers are not stupid, they do not need pictures to help them understand. Look at WP:NOT and you can see in the talk pages discussions about pictures. There is also the more serious fair use policy, which many people refuse to acknowledge. The pictures of a show are copyrighted. It's ok for you to post them onto your forums or fan sites, but Wikipedia is not a fan site. Wikipedia is a site that has reached the level of recognition and distribution that it has to be careful about what it puts up. The understanding has been that a limited number of screenshots is appropriate if they are critically important. 38 is not limited. 10 is not limited. One picture of Kid buu is fine. Pictures of him emerging from smoke (I does not matter if it seems cool or personifies the character), fighting, using moves, dying, etc. is wrong. These are the pictures the page really needs: Fat Buu, Old Buu, Super Buu, Kid Buu, Uub, that's all I would put. I'd have just put the group shot of the Buu's and the Uub image. So Zarbon did not do something extreme, he actually lies in the middle, keeping 8. And his name is Zarbon. --Orion Minor 19:08, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

• thank you orion minor for your help on this issue. and thank you also for pointing out that wiki-star should not tease other member's names. on another note, wiki-star i do not use dial-up. i use a very fast cable connection. however, for the people who do use dial-up, it's a better consensus. and more importantly, as orion minor pointed out, having 40 images on a page is rather overdoing it for a wikipedia article. so going by the rules alone, the amount of 7 for this one single character is enough. - Zarbon

• lets keep the max images on the page to 7. This is key to the order of the page, as well as to follow the consensus of the Frieza and Cell pages. - Zarbon

• Wiki-star: Sorry for not replying so long gentelmen, i had tons of stuff to do this summer vacation. Allright, now everyone just calm down and relax. I've realized that we all want our share of the pizza, but instead of coming to a compromise, we're all quarreling as to who should get what! Zarbon, you have eliminated too many images from this article. I have a good mind of re-adding them all, because each of those images have a purpose. There should be no excuse as to why you eliminated images of Super Buu's transformations. Both of those images provide a perfect visualizaion of those Buus. Not everyone learns by reading and listening, sometimes you have to show them to make them understand alittle bit better. I can understand why you eliminated some of the images from the first 4 sections of the article. However, i do not understand why you eliminated all of the images from the Special Abilities. This goes back to what i've been saying before. Not everyone learns just by reading or listening. Even if the picture is there, they'll all still learn because every information is given. I'm going to re-add some of the images you never had to eliminate Zarbon. Give me another reason other that the "this article has too many images" excuse. If this site required faster dial-up connection tomorro, i gaurantee everyone will get it!

Wiki-star 17:37, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

We don't want a "share of the pizza." All we want is the article to be as good as it can. This goes far beyond load times of articles. When you edit Buu you may notice this message: This page is 68 kilobytes long. This may be longer than is preferable; see [article size]. Editing (the process of trimming down a piece of work to improve it) is a very important process in any form of writing. Wikipedia is a text based encyclopedia, not a picture book. It's two to one, not including other editors who agreed that there are too many pictures. In times of conflict such as this, it comes down to consensus. I told you before, if you want the pictures back, put it to a vote first. Keep up these rash actions and I will petition the article to be frozen, where no one can edit it until you stop. You're only hurting the Buu article with your actions right now, not to mention wasting my time. --Orion Minor 20:47, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

• Thank you Orion Minor. It's a good thing users like you exist to deal with these problems. honestly, buu does not deserve more than 7 pics. And wiki-star, if you do keep vandalizing by reverting and adding pics on a constant basis, I'm sure it won't end well for you. However, if you want to re-add his forms, then you'd have to sacrifice the Uub and the other picture on the top, the one where he's dodging Supreme West Kai. Otherwise, there should not be more than 7 pics on this page and even that's too much for a villain like buu, considering the fact that he's even less of a major character than Frieza and Cell. So, for all intent and purposes, do not add more. You can alternate the pics, change them...but keep it to a maximum of 7 pics on this page. I'm sure that my friend Orion Minor will be keeping track of your listening ability from now on. Please pay attention and do not stray from the consensus, which in this case, is to keep the number of pics on the page to a maximum of 7. - Zarbon

• Wiki-star: What the hell? Ok.... let me relax! First and for most, you two surely do not think you're the bosses around here. Both of you are acting like me now, we're you're telling the other user what to do. The only reason i'm still nagging about this article image conflict, is because i care about the Buu article more than any other of the articles i have worked on. Majin Buu has always been my favorite villain of the whole series, including GT. Otherwise, i would've ignored this. I have allready explained to you both that many of the images you eliminated were uneccessary. At least 10 of the colossal amount of images you both exterminated were quite useful. You know what, i'll deal with you too when i return. I have a great summer vacation that i won't let you or anyone else spoil. Try to return at least all of the transformation images, because i will insert them back, along with more when i return. I never had the chance to say this, but i do appreciate you're concerns gentlemen, but we need to come to a compromise, not a vote! Thanks and have a great summer!

Wiki-star 04:27, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Shut you dub drunk bastard. Have a great at your computer you dick.

Ignore him Wiki-star, the editor has a history of getting blocked and is just looking for attention. Harmful comments like his will only get him banned.

• now i don't know who is going to allow you to ruin a page by adding a ton of images...but i will always be here and I'm hoping that Orion Minor will get some other more dignified users to come and deal with you. For one thing, I know for a fact that the page will not be getting more than 7 images, not until all the other dbz villains are treated with at least 10 in this scenario. I know for a fact that Frieza and Cell are both more important than Buu. and it seriously doesn't matter if buu is your favorite character. that right then and there is not enough ground for you to make a decision, because you solely base your opinion on what you think is important while myself and others such as Orion Minor are trying to follow a certain orderly consensus. You will eventually be banned if you persist with this mockery of reverts. - Zarbon

Kid Buu

Ok seriously, this contiual assertion that Kid Buu is the strongest Buu based on his fight with Goku is ridiculous. Goku, an expert at guaging his opponents, was convinced that fighting Super Buu w/ Gohan was hopeless without fusion. He was also convicned that he alone could stand up to Kid Buu. Really people, that's called common sense. People point to skirmishes Goku had with Super Buu and a dub quote by East Kaioshin as further proof. News flash kiddies- FILLER FIGHTS AND FUNIMATION MISTRANSLATIONS DO NOT EQUAL CANON EVIDENCE. In the manga it is quite clear which Buu is the strongest, and Toriyama has never said otherwise. Onikage725 13:55, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

I agree on most points, but please try to not be so confrontational about it. Discussion and edits for this article seem argumentative enough without adding fuel to the fire. Voice of Treason 16:37, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

You're right of course. it's just frustrating to have to fix the same thing over and over and over. And after displaying all evidence, the page gets moved and the old discussions lost, and every other new person who finds their way here wants to start telling those who've fine tuned this article how wrong they are. The sad nature of Dragon Ball fandom- everyone has their own theory and everyone is sure there's is right. In this particular case there's strong evidence to the contrary and I'm just tired of beating a dead horse. Onikage725 17:24, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

-Hey I agree with you totally Onikage725, even when you were 'confrontational', the fact people keep changing the article to sau kid buu is strongest is really stupid

• Wiki-star: It's not that people have their own opinion that pisses me off, it's the fact that they can't back it up! People aree saying Kid Buu is the strongest of all Buu's because he's so dangerous. People don't take the time to analyze all the Buu's and better understans each of their powers.

Wiki-star 16:13, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Article Misunderstandings

• Wiki-star: See this is why we need a leader and someone who can solve all conflicts within an article. This article has gone to the dogs since i have left (and it was just for 3 days). A perfect example why we cannot afford to leave this article unsupervised. People are adding all sorts of rubbish, and are deleting valuable information within the article!

That leader isn't you. Work with others, or take your complaints to an admin. Voice of Treason 16:33, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Actually the article looks great. It is far better than it was originally, though it could still stand to be improved. Some of the useless information that was added should be removed, such as the episode appearances that take up a huge chunk of the article.

Daishokaioshin 22:51, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

It's meatier, I will say that much. And Wiki-star certainly wants to improve articles he's taken an interest in. He just gets ultra-possessive from there on in.

As far as being "great" - no, I really wouldn't say so. There's a lot that needs to be trimmed and the tense isn't so good; it reads as way too wordblocky (if I can create a term) and difficult to scan, to go along with the regular grammar & English errors. Though I'm as much to blame as anyone: I thought anything we so much as touched would be reverted back in as "valuable information". Voice of Treason 00:05, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

• Wiki-star: What are you folks talking about? The article looks much worst than before. People are deleting Buu's episode appearances, and the links at the bottom of the article. And whom-so-ever keeps adding fake absorptions of Super Buu from Budokai 2, please stop. Only add information from the series, because everything there is factual, whereas the game can be a complete opinion. Wiki-star 16:18, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

• Darkwarriorblake: A game is opinion? Anyway, I added the forms to a non-canon section as a lot of people played the games and will have seen the forms and it just shows off what Buu can really do. As for the article, its had a lot of work done to it over the past few days, its not too bad, if anything needs help its theVegeta article, the sagas need heavily trimming as there are direct articles for the sagas themselves.Darkwarriorblake 13:48, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Galaxy/Universe

The Dragon Ball universe originally contained sixteen galaxies. Each cluster of four galaxies was looked after by a Kaioshin, and each galaxy was looked after by a Kaio. After Buu's rampage, only four galaxies remained (the north, west, south, and east galaxies). It seems that some people are confused about the use of the words universe and galaxy, trying to use the, interchangeably, or with the wrong meaning. A universe is large and contains galaxies. Our universe contains a LOT of them, but not the Dragon Ball universe's, which may be the cause of the confusion, since because it is smaller, it seen as being the same size as a galaxy by those who don't know the definition of a universe.

Hope I cleared that up.

Daishokaioshin 22:51, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I always saw the pre-Kaioshinkai Massacre cosmology as being that of a multiverse, containing the 4 universes that in turn contained 4 galaxies. I think this mainly because of East Kaioshin's domain consisting of a North, South, East, and West galaxy. The other Kaioshins' demesne would likely be seperated similarly in their own sections, and there isn't term attached to our own North Galaxy, for example, to seperate it from what was once West Kaioshin's North Galaxy were they part of the same universe. Onikage725 03:06, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

No, each collection of four galaxies was a "quadrant", not a universe. The North Galaxy is the South Galaxy of the North Quadrant, East Galaxy is West Galaxy of the East Quadrant, etc. However, since there are only those four galaxies remaining, they were reorganized into a new quadrant, and given different names.

Daishokaioshin 03:10, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Gotcha. Thanks. Onikage725 11:30, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

One question Dai...do you have a reference? I can't find anything to support my claim. In retrospect, the theory was presented to me by a friend who at the time nurtured my early fandom, yet by now I have more hands-on experience and have changed some of his theories. I saw some verification from sites that have long since been consumed by their own bandwith. I do remember them saying that the North, South, East, and West Galaxies were always East Kaioshin's, and that Buu destroyed each universe as he killed it's Kaioshin (leaving the East Universe untouched, as he was imprisoned before he could destroy it's guardians). If that's an ill-informed simplification, I'd love to read up on the quadrants and restructuring. Onikage725 11:41, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Oh, and just in case you might think that's a subtle confrontation, it's not. There have been many things that 6 or 7 years ago I read on a site like Planet Namek or GGG or the like, or was told by another fan, and took for granted, that over the years I have found to be flawed or in-correct. Easy and funny example- once had someone tell me that Vegeta accidentallly destroyed his Potara, and took that for granted. When I saw the ep for the first time years later...well obviously it was no accident, and I phoned that friend and corrected his misconception. Onikage725 11:44, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

No problem. Didn't see anything confrontational about what you said. Sorry for taking so long to respond, but I've been trying to find the issue of the manga that I got my information from. Unfortunately, much of my collection of Dragon Ball Z manga have mysteriously disappeared somewhere, and I can't locate them, so I am unable to backup what I said. Which may be just as well, as what you say makes sense, and I may have misinterpreted what was presented to me in the manga.

What I was always under the impression of was that Buu ate, blew up, or otherwise eliminate the other 12 galaxies, but since my Japanese isn't exactly fluent, despite my mom being Japanese, I may have misread what was said. However, even if each quadrant was eliminated when each Kaioshin was either killed or absorbed, that still doesn't mean that there are multiple universes within the Dragon Ball universe (and when I say universe, I do not mean the Dragon Ball series, since there are obviously at least two other dimensions, and another plane of existence, with a third plane of existence being hinted at, within the series. I mean that you cannot have a universe inside of a universe. If it's inside a universe, but still very large, then it's probably a galaxy, or a quadrant (a collection of four galaxies)). I'm not explaining that to you, since you seem to get it. I'm just stating it for anyone else who stops by and is confused, and who this discussion can help alleviate that confusion.

Daishokaioshin 00:08, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Hmm, that's true. Also, multiverses do tend to refer to alternate realities, so the quadrant thing makes a certain sense in that respect. Though I guess it'd be a multiverse in that respect anyway, since Trunks and Cell screwed the timeline sideways (not to mention the movies). Onikage725 04:30, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Unequality

I'm beginning to not like the way this site punishes it's very own contributors. I believe the consequences are provoked at one individual, and not the other. I seem to be getting blocked because i am voilating this three revert rule. Yes i understand that, but why is it that Voice of Treason did not get the same fate? He was also voilating the rule! This is ridiculous, i don't believe after all the hard work contributors input on such a wonderful site, they still be unfair to them. You folks are deleting and adding useless information to and from this article. I'm trying my very best to make it as explainable, and understandable as i can. I'm trying to add as much facts i am aware of within this article as much as possible. I try to end disputes by coming to a mutual understanding, and yet people still insult and disrespect what i do around here. It's just not right. You know, just permanently ban me. It makes absolutely no sense in contributing something you are very well knowlegeable of, and be abused. But i won't let this article go to the dogs.

Wiki-star 15:59, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Voice of Treason only reverted 3 times (he reached the maximum but did not break 3RR) and he did so on the lines of community consensus. You reverted six times, which was way over the line. You reverted changes by Orion Minor, Voice of Treason, and Isopropyl. Even when you work very hard on a page—even if you create a page—the rest of the community still has the right to edit it as they deem appropriate. No one can own a Wikipedia article; when you submit content, you agree to allow it to "edited mercilessly" by all other users.

Your only solution here is to discuss, discuss, discuss. Communicate with others when they ask you to, or before you make a change you think others might disagree with. It can be annoying to do that, but you will never be punished for having a calm discussion instead of an edit war. I hope you decide to stay. Kafziel 16:33, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Haaaa.... man. I don't know what to say man, it's extravgantly difficult. Now that you mention it, i'll stop reverting, unless someone can discuss with me why the article should not look the way it is now. Yes it may have far too many images, but i need much more reason that than, because some featured articles have just as much, if not more images than this article!

Wiki-star 16:40, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

I know it's difficult. I have the same problem. I think the real issue with the images is copyright. Fair Use allows a limited number of screenshots per article, and only when absolutely necessary, when it can't possibly be described any other way. One or two pictures of Buu gives a reader a basic idea of his appearance, and the different forms can be described using words rather than copyrighted pictures. That was the problem with the amount of issues that were in the original article, and that's why they were pared down.

Kafziel 17:24, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Ok, now that clears up alot of confusion i had. However, you're almost convinced me. However, not everyone learns just by reading. The image is there for those that understand what he really looks like. So, you've yet to convice me as to why the Transformation images should not stay. But thanks alot for clearing up some confusion, you're a good man!

Wiki-star 17:45, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

I have never seen an episode of Dragon Ball Z, but the sections about his different forms and powers still makes sense to me without pictures. I think pictures like this one are very good; if the caption indicated which form was which, it would take a lot fewer pictures to do the job. You wouldn't need a separate pic for each form. Then you could use just a couple more, maybe one for a particular power that is very very hard to describe and another one for the most important alternate form (maybe Kid Buu), and get rid of the rest. The point is that if somebody really wants to know everything about the character, they should have to watch the show (otherwise we are cutting into the show's viewers and profits). Having lots of pictures makes a good article, but it is not fair to the people who spend their time and money making the show. It's okay to talk about it, but pictures (and even pictures of pictures) are copyrighted so we have to use as few as possible or we can get sued.

Kafziel 18:09, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Hm? Ok now you're getting just alittle too sentilmental for me now. If what you're saying is true, then a suppose "My Favorite Games" should be sued for having so much information about Dragon Ball Z. It Does not matter how many images or how many information is inputed within the article. The job that we all are trying to achieve is inputing as much information about Majin Buu as we can possibly give. I believe the more information an article has about it's topic, the less questions we will witness on the talk page. This is one of the goals i'm trying to achieve within the article. Do you understand alittle bit? If not, we can keep going!

Wiki-star 18:29, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

I understand and agree that the goal of everyone here is to put as much information as possible into the article. But that's not the goal of Toei Animation, and they are the ones who decide when to step in and defend their copyrights. With real things it's easier; if I want to put up a picture of a building or a statue, I just go take a picture and release my copyright on that picture. Obviously, you're not going to run across Buu in real life and snap a photo of him, so you need to use at least a few pictures that you borrow from someone else. In this case, no matter where you get a picture of Buu, you are borrowing it from Toei Animation. We have the same issues in articles related to things like Star Wars and Batman. The Star Wars article only has two screenshots. Even Batman, who has 70 years worth of different costumes, enemies, and actors, only has 16 total pictures. Would they be cooler with more? Absolutely. But we're not supposed to do that.

Kafziel 18:40, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Ok i know that i'm a contributor for this article, but i don't have to do everything around here. Some people can help me out with the copyright status. But you see, people are so busy thinking about the exterior feature of the article, than the interior. Thats whats really bugging me. However, you are starting to convince me to convert the article. But.... what if some readers understand better through visualization? Even if the picture is there, the words describe the image, so theres really no difference. So... i mean why not? I am not familiar with a rule on wikipedia that says article images should never exceed such a limit.

Wiki-star 18:48, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Well, it's not something you need to do. Nobody can change the fact that the pictures are copyrighted. As far as a limit, the Fair Use licensing tags state that a "limited number" of screenshots can be used in an article. I'm the first to admit, that's very vague, so sometimes it causes problems when we're talking about a specific number, but most editors agree that the amount in Buu is far too many.

On another note, why do you think this should be at "Buu" instead of "Majin Buu"? Have you discussed that with the other users somewhere?

Kafziel 19:16, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes, on this talk page, in fact. Here's the diff, before Wiki-star removed every section that he disagreed with: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Buu&oldid=55885448. Compare the lengths of the TOCs.

Isopropyl 19:25, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

What are you folks talking about? I didn't move the page to "Majin Buu", nor did i eliminate anything within the talk page. God, see this is what i'm talking about. Whats wrong with you people! Another thing, where the heck is the article?

Wiki-star 19:28, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

There are two pages now, one for Buu and one for Majin Buu. You worsen the problem by reverting the redirect to your version, and now the article, for some reason, doesn't want to redirect anymore.

I may contact an admin who will hopefully remove whatever's stuck in this article's gears so it can be a normal redirect again.

Voice of Treason 19:37, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

After clearing my cache I should probably leave it well enough alone at this point. Redirect works now.

Voice of Treason 21:44, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Me worsen the problem? I was trying to come to mutualism, but i was cut off. Ever since i decided to screw it off. You and i will always be like this, and neither of us will get a triumphant over the other. So we might as well join forces, or come to mutualism!

Wiki-star 19:46, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Please don't. You've always made a bad habit of reverting the work of others, and sometimes many with the majority or consensus opinion, without giving a second thought to mutualism when it was your article or against your set thought. It's also false that I'm combative to you, as I try to assume good faith and have even defended you in the past. I don't know why you'd think of me doing this as a contest or to be "better" or more triumphant than you. It's very odd to me.

Voice of Treason 19:52, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Just so you know, I requested protection on this page...sorry to see that it hasn't yet. Hopefully, if it is protected, you'll all be forced to discuss changes instead of just doing them.

Isopropyl 19:50, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

But that's just it - the whole crux of the matter is that changes have been discussed and majority consensus reached, with Wiki-star not wanting to go along with that decision. I didn't expect so much time to be spent on this or for admins to have to constantly get involved; it's embarassing to me, personally, and probably almost everyone else.

Voice of Treason 19:55, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

• I am glad that you all came here to see this madness. I also hope that wiki-star WILL NOT be tormenting more members with the constant reverting and re-addition of images. I am trying my best to keep images on the page to a maximum of 7. Looking at the Star Wars page was a perfect example, Kafziel, thank you for bringing that up. Someone like Buu definitely doesn't deserve that many images, even Frieza and Cell have less. It's not even funny. I will try to keep max at 7 and I hope wiki-star does NOT continuously revert. and if he seriously does want to be banned like he suggested above, then why disappoint him...he's only becoming more and more non-negotiable. - Zarbon

Dear Wiki-star,

Please stop reverting the article. If you would like to change the article in some fashion, we'll discuss it here.

Sincerely, the undersigned:

1. Isopropyl 19:14, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
2. Daishokaioshin 22:11, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
3. Onikage725 14:09, 10 June 2006 (UTC) (p.s. delete my comment again, when I'm trying to help you out, and we will have a problem.)
4. Zarbon 02:41, 11 June 2006
5. Voice of Treason 23:46, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

• Wiki-star 14:48, 10 June 2006 (UTC) I have ceased reverting the article. However, i will not rest until the article is well organized and properly descriptive of every aspect that is Majin Buu. (p.s > Onikage: I don't know what the hell you are talking about, but you need to stop threatning me for things i didn't do. You're starting to piss the shit out of me and i don't like it. Please stop!)

I commented in the above discussion, and looking through the long string of edits under your name, you responded, and then suddenly both my comment and your response disappeared. Don't swear at me. You did it. And I'm not swearing at you. Onikage725 15:57, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

• Wiki-Star, stop extending the discussions into the far right...you also literally delete a lot of stuff from the discussion page, please do not lie about it. also, please quit adding information...it's overwhelmingly annoying already!!! - Zarbon

Pictures

This site has pictures of the Budokai 2 versions of Super Buu that could be used for the article. http://pagesperso.aol.fr/friezito/imagesuperbuu.html

We've agreed to leave the article as is without adding additional pics, though this may change over time. Thanks for trying to help, though. Voice of Treason 23:45, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Deleted Information/Added Information

• Wiki-star: Now i have no right to tell any contributor within this great article, what to do. However, i can and will warn you that whatever information you delete or add without thorough reason and decription towards it's ultimate purpose within the article, it will be removed. I care greatly about this article, and will be damned if i let another voilator ruin such a wonderful article!

Wiki-star 22:58, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Wiki-star, obviously when you decided to join Wikipedia you didn't even bother to read The Five Pillars of Wikipedia. Before you make any more contributions to any other articles please take the time to read Wikipedia's Policy. I also recommend that you read Wikipedia's Policy on the Three-revert rule and on Ownership of articles for you to avoid being blocked from editing Wikipedia once again. Thank you.-3bulletproof16 23:14, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

I cut the episode table per WP:NOT. I don't see it as adding anything noteworthy to the reader and as sort of a fluff piece. It would be like adding a huge table for any recurring character EVER in media listing whatever large or tiny role they ever played in. If it can't be described in the main piece, there's no reason for it there. Voice of Treason 23:41, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

And images were already talked about as well. Provide the proper rationale for re-adding pics throughout the article and get consensus from other users before doing so. Voice of Treason 23:43, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Budokai 2 Information

I've decided to take the information about Buu's Budokai 2 transformations within this article, in the talk page. I do not believe that this information is neccessary. Buu's what if transformations within Budokai 2 is not real. It's part of a game, and it wasn't like he really did absorb Frieza in the series. My point is that this section of the article needs to go. I'm on the verge of deleting it, however i'm going to negotiate it's stay. Whomsoever would like to come to a compromise by all means. Please do not insult me in the process of your explanation. I know i have been a real nemesis to this article over the past few weeks, however i have also been an important contributor. Talk to me like i'm a person, not an animal. You do not want to see my animal side! Thanks alot! Wiki-star 23:04, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

GT is considered relatively non-canon yet its information is carried in the article. They are what-ifs but where someone to see such forms in the game or in images and come here for an explanation, they would find such a section and know it is not a series form but is still a form he could have taken and did in the game. Can't really see the harm, its meant to be comprehensive.Darkwarriorblake 00:39, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

I don't see it's harm, personally. However I could live without the info if it were voted against. However, a small section just noting them as non-canon transformations and saying what they were seems alright. A link to the B2 article would probably be better though. I don't mention B3 because his transformations there were canonical (although the Piccolo primary form was redesigned). Onikage725 15:34, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Everything within this article is based sololey on the series not the Video Game. If you wish to add anything about Buu's what if transformations from the Dragon Ball Z: Budokai 2 video game, introduce it within that article. So i'm going to give you another shot on persuading on why it should stay. Then, it's gone! Wiki-star 19:11, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

No, everything within this article is based solely on the character of Majin Buu. Unless you are proposing that there be seperate articles for his series,game, manga and merchandise appearances then your arguement is baseless and boils down to "I don't want it so your arguement doesn't count". Don't bother discussing it if you aren't going to bother listening at all. Its a source of info on all things Buu and its perfectly valid information.

Darkwarriorblake 01:35, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

And as an added note, don't throw this dramatic "I'm not an animal" plea for respect, and then lay down baseless ultimatums to any user who doesn't share your point of view. None of us own the article. You feel it should go? You did the right thing opening the discussion, but lording over said discussion like a wannabe admin is only going to tick people off. Onikage725 03:41, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

See thats the problem with you people, you just do not listen! I never said this information is useless, it has a purpose within the Budokai 2 article. It doesn't have a good purpose within this article, because it is false. Everything that is written within this article about Buu either did happen in the series, or can be proven by the series. Everything else is obsolete! If you feel that i am wrong, then explain so. If not, this section will stay exctinct! Wiki-star 19:53, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

I don't think obsolete means what you think it means.

Daishokaioshin 19:59, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Hehheheheh... "INCONCEIVABLE!!"

...Sorry, couldn't help myself. Onikage725 22:25, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

POV and Super Buu with Gohan absorbed

Saying Super Buu with Gohan absorbed is "nicer" is not only a pov statement, but it is also wrong. He isn't any nicer than anyone else. He speaks more clearly, perhaps, and displays more intelligence, but that doesn't automatically make him "nicer" or "less evil". Buu is evil. Dai Kaioshin was pure good, which is why Buu's evil was tempered somewhat after absorbing him. Piccolo, Gotenks, and Gohan all had flaws, foibles, and a dark side to them. They were mere mortals, and while they may be considered "good guys" they were not divine beings like Dai Kaioshin, and thus didn't affect his evil in any way, other than to make it more "presentable" (which would still be a pov thing to state).

Also, while I agree that Super Buu with Gohan absorbed is Buu's more purely powerful form, I'm not sure that it needs to be stated. If you wanted to add that back in, I'll support it, but the article would be just as well off without it, too.

Daishokaioshin 18:01, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

His absorption of others gave him more sentience and personality but they didn't turn him good, I don't remember him showing any mercy. The fear he showed when confronted with Vegeta about to remove Fat Buu and reduce him to a mindless being who only thrives on simply obliterating everthing is evident that he was given more creativity and personality by taking in the Z-Fighters but wasn't made nicer. Even absorbing fat buu didn't achieve that.Darkwarriorblake 18:05, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Haaa... let me calm down. You folks have allready pissed me off enough for me to raise hell in such a calm manner. Ok, the reason why we (or preferably i) say that Super Buu w/Gohan is the nicest of all Super Buus, is because it was obvious. There are 4 valid reasons why he is the nicest of all Super Buus:

Reason #1: He offered Goku an opportunity to fuse with someone, even if the result may be stronger than him. This means even if Goku fused with someone and became more powerful, Buu risked it. Now to me, thats the nicest and most considerate act Buu ever performed in the series.

Reason #2: During his fight with Goku and Vegeta, he gave them numerous opportunities for them to attack him. Super Buu w/Gohan knew that Goku and Vegeta were both far weaker than him, and as a result had sympthay on them briefly. He became serious when Goku struck him, and thats when he started to beat the hell out of him and Vegeta.

Reason #3: During his fight with Vegetto, Super Buu w/Gohan changed him back into his saiyan form. Now even though he was getting beaten, Buu could've destroyed the whole planet right then and there, and Vegetto would not be able to stop him. But because he was "nicer", he decided to change Vegetto back because he had a heart.

Reason #4: Super Buu w/Gohan did not destroy earth after he defeated Vegetto. Knowone in the universe could've challenged him now that Vegetto was absorbed, so i think Buu has gotten alot nicer.

These are the 4 reasons why Super Buu w/Gohan is the nicest of all the Super Buus. If you think i'm wrong, just explain yourself, and i'll better explain myself. Until then, leave Super Buu w/Gohan's section ALONE!.

Wiki-star 19:04, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

1: He wanted an opponent that he could test his power on.

2: I believe that was filler. Even then, he was toying around with them. Just because he didn't mindlessly kill them, doesn't make him nice.

3: Once again, filler. He was getting his ass kicked and doesn't mindlessly blow things up like Kid Buu. Candy Vegetto could have stopped him anyways.

4: He doesn't just blow things up for no reason. What would it have accomplished? He was smart, not nice.

Ok are you telling me that you disagree with Super Buu w/Gohan being the nicest of all Super Buus? Wiki-star 19:21, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes. None of your reasons prove he is nice. They prove he cares about his own interests, considers other beings weaker than him to be toys, and is actually smart unlike Kid Buu who is a raging sac of evil.

Well obviously you're a waste of my time if you can't understand the kindness of Super Buu w/Gohan. Regardless of whether or not you agree with me, you can't name any other Buu thats just as nice. So no harm done! Wiki-star 19:29, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

I believe that is exactly what the user is telling you. And so am I. Buu wasn't being nice when he offered Goku the chance to fuse with someone. It's as the other user said: He just wanted someone to test his power on. As for giving Goku and Vegeta chances to attack him, that's because he was arrogant, and didn't think they could hurt him. And, as you said, after being struck, he began beating the hell out of the two of them. That's not what I would consider "nice". He turned Vegetto back into a Saiyan because he thought that he would have a better chance against him than with him as a candy. He didn't want to destroy the planet right then, or didn't think to. And he DID try to destroy the entire universe when he got frustrated with his inability to defeat Vegetto, did he not? That is by far the least nice thing he could do. He was also interested in eating and playing around, rather than blowing up the planet immediately. The less-intelligent versions of Buu were the ones that cared for nothing but destruction. Super Buu with Gohan absorbed was more intelligent, knew he was the strongest being in the universe, and that he had all the time in the world to do whatever he wanted.

Also, we don't have to leave any part of the article ALONE, because you don't own the article. I will continue to fix this article so that it is correct, whether you like it or not. It would be better if you just accepted the truth of our words, rather than stubbornly changing things back the way you want them. As a final note, saying that someone is a waste of your time because they disagree with you is an extremely childish thing to do. Grow up.

Daishokaioshin 19:33, 13 June 2006

(UTC)

Childish or not, there is no nicer Buu than Super Buu w/Gohan. As a result, this discussion is really a waist of my time. And right back at you Dai! Have a nice day. Wiki-star 19:52, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Buu with Gohan absorbed isn't nice, he's arrogant. He wanted to toy with the fighters, insant destruction doesn't exactly entertain someone with the attention span and personality of Majin Buu.Darkwarriorblake 01:39, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Wiki-star, what is the point of asking people to offer opinions if you don't even bother to listen? The users above perfectly answered everything and you respond with nothing but derision (look it up). Let me try to put it to you this way- those acts of "mercy" as you call them...well that would be like saying Freeza was a decent fellow because he fought Goku with one hand behind his back. He handicapped himself, how nice! Oh wait, he was just toying with the "inferior monkey." What about Vegeta letting Goku pick the battle location? Or Cell offering Goku a chance to eat a senzu? These characters are not nice- they're arrogant. Onikage725 03:49, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

See this is the reason why i say you're a waist of my time. You're talking about Frieza and Cell. This isn't about them, or Vegeta. This is about Buu. And as far as i'm concerned, Buu has multiple personalities, whereas those characters do not. I'm saying that Super Buu w/Gohan is the nicest of all the Super Buus. I've allready given my explanation, but none of you have yet to tell me why i am wrong. Knowone has yet to tell me why Super Buu w/Gohan isn't the least evil, or the nicest, of all the Super Buus. And until someone does that, this discussion is taking up valuable space. It will be deleted very soon!

Wiki-star 19:28, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Actually, no, it won't be deleted. You don't delete things from talk pages, just because YOU think it's a waste of space. Freeza, Cell, and Vegeta were being used as examples to illustrate the points given by those who have given you multiple reasons why Super Buu with Gohan absorbed is NOT any nicer than any other Buu. I don't know how to explain it more clearly if what has already been stated isn't considered sufficient evidence to you. You have yet to provide any proof that your claim is true, while we have provided plenty of proof that it is false. Re-read what was said before saying anything else. I know you don't understand English, but if necessary, have someone translate for you.

Daishokaioshin 19:35, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Ok, I'm sorry, but it really needs to be said because this discussion is just ridiculous. I'll say this once. FAT BUU IS THE NICEST FORM OF BUU. Wiki-Star, offer me one bit of evidence suggesting that a guy who heals children and raises puppies, and who's reign of terror ended the moment Mr-friggin-Satan told him it wasn't acceptable behavior is somehow less nice than a guy nearly unmade creation just because he was losing a fight... and I'll ask you who's fanfiction you're reading. Onikage725 22:52, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Do two more pictures hurt?

I do think that the pictures of Piccolo Buu and Gohan Buu make that section look better. I would at least take down Gotenks Buu and add Gohan Buu as he was much more important.

Do not worry my fellow contributor, theres knowone that will stop us from providing excellent information about Buu. And i will see to it! Wiki-star 19:53, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

You aren't "providing excellent information". You're reverting things to how YOU want them, and refusing to acknowledge any discussion on the matter. You CLAIM to talk about issues first, but you always dismiss anyone who disagrees with you and say they are wasting your time. You are the worst editor Wikipedia has ever had, due to your immaturity, stubborness, and dillusions that you can do whatever you want without repercussions. I don't have a problem with those two pictures being added. No one is trying to "stop you". But you need to fix your attitude problem right quick, before you get in serious trouble.

Daishokaioshin 19:59, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Wiki-star: I don't agree with you. You are very arrogant and childish as you consider yourself some kind of expert and the only true source of information. I just think the pictures look better than a bunch of pictures, two blank spots and then another picture.

Your insults are a complete obsoletion to whatever you say Dai! I explain myself only twice. If you still don't understand, thats your buisness. I'll keep contributing. I've allready explained why i keep re-adding the images, and the information back. It's not my fault your ignorance is confusing you. Anywayz, i really don't have time. Wiki-star 20:07, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Uhh... I'm not insulting you? And you misused the word "obsoletion". You should really learn how to use English properly before editting things on English Wikipedia. As for your "contributing": You aren't. You're vandalizing this article. That's not contributions. And your "explanations" of why you're putting things back ignore all prior conversation on the matter, all points brought up by other users, and go by some twisted "logic" that you believe is true. I'm not confused at all, and there is no ignorance on my side of this issue. Work with other users, and stop being a child.

Daishokaioshin 20:11, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes, two more pictures DO HURT. AND IT's NOT TWO, It's THREE when the agreed amount was 7. Stop re-adding them. - Zarbon

The two pictures are two version of Super Buu which I would think are important enough to add. 65.175.204.220 21:30, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

They are NOT forms of buu. they are simply absorptions of super buu, which nothing changes but his clothing...that's not really a transformation...simply an upgrade. buu has these forms: Majin Buu, Evil Buu, Super Buu, and Kid Buu. That's it. The Gotenks absorption, Piccolo absorption, and Gohan absorption are NOT separate forms...simply upgrades for the super buu character. that's why they don't need separate pics. the only thing that changes is the clothes he's wearing. - Zarbon

Yet, is that truly a reason as to why images depicting these "absorptions" should not be added? The definition of Transformation is "A change in appearance, nature, function, etc." So by definition, these "absorptions" are transformations. Whether or not they are "actual forms" or just simply "absorptions" to you could by debated. However, the images do not suggest that unnecessary, random, or irrelevant information is being added. Zarbon, I am beginning to wonder if this is a personal issue...-3bulletproof16 06:49, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Furthermore, by Zarbon's logic/definition, Super Buu and Majin Buu aren't transformations either. Majin Buu is Kid Buu after absorbing Dai Kaioshin, and Super Buu is Thin Buu/Evil Buu after absorbing (though in a different manner) Majin Buu. So until we want to have pictures of only Kid Buu and Thin Buu/Evil Buu...

Daishokaioshin 07:00, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Ask yourself this: When I say "Super Buu with Piccolo's cape," can you imagine what I have described? If the answer is yes, then the picture is not necessary. A limited number of pictures that are necessary are allowed under fair use. Also, you don't need to format the talk pages; it can make the quotes too narrow as well. --Orion Minor 08:04, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Not that I care one way or the other but to be fair, anyone who hasn't seen the show (And from what I've been told, that is who the page is for), they won't know what Super Buu with Piccolos cape will look like. THe original Super Buu and Piccolo Super Buu also looks a lot different.Darkwarriorblake 10:56, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Reverting

I've reached my limit for the number of times I can revert the article. If other users could continue to revert Wiki-star's vandalism, I'd appreciate it. If he continued to revert, then he'll just be in more trouble when the Admins get to the petition I posted about his continued violation of 3RR.

Daishokaioshin 20:17, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Wikistar you're bordering on the psychotic. You cannot keep just reverting changes because you don't like them. For one, not everyone would comprehend what Buu w/Gohan means if they didn't know who Buu was. You seem to be bypassing the rules by simply re-editing individual sections at a time instead of the whole article and its very childish to put it mildly. Darkwarriorblake 00:57, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

If anyone would like to comment on Wiki-star's reversions please do so here.-3bulletproof16 01:01, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

• Wiki-star: Like i said before, i will stop at nothing until justice is served. You all have pissed me off enough by insulting me, and treating me like a piece of shit. It hurts me so bad to know that your contributions give off such destructive criticism. This is why i'd rather be banned than to let you all ruin such a wonderful site.

I've explained myself too many times within this talk page. This is why i will not explain myself anymore. If you want to know again why i keep re-adding these sections, then approach me in a more civil manner. Otherwise, you will not stop me! End of discussion. Wiki-star 01:25, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

I just OD'ed on *snurk*. Someone get me a tissue and a glass of water. Papacha 01:37, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Well, I'm out of reverts. Unlike some, I follow the policies of Wikipedia. Also, everyone be sure to be civil. --Orion Minor 01:45, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Until "justice is served?" This is the Buu page, not Great Saiyaman :p Onikage725 03:52, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Forget about it, Onikage725. Let the kid get what's coming to him. Don't stoop down to his level. Just sit back and ride this whole thing out-3bulletproof16 04:00, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, that's sound advice. Onikage725 04:55, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Majin Buu Not A Majin?

I can't revert the article anymore today without violating 3RR, even though this would be reversions of a different user, so I'll discuss it here:

It has been said that Buu wasn't Majined like the others. Actually, yes, he was. That's why he's called Majin Buu. He was the first one to be Majined. It removed all restrictions on him, allowing him to become stronger and stronger, endlessly. It also removed all moral restrictions as well, allowing him to imprint on Bibidi's evil, and then become even eviler than his creator. Other beings already had personalities, and thus when Majined, they didn't "imprint" on the one that Majined them. They just had all restrictions on their emotions and minds released, and since the ones who were Majined were primarily evil or selfish, that is what came to the fore. But since Vegeta was not entirely evil, after awhile, he was able to switch to the nature that had been developing in him during his time on Earth. He had nothing stopping him anymore from showing his love for his son, because, as I keep saying: All restrictions were removed.

Majin Buu, on the other hand, never had anything other than Bibidi's evil to experience, and learned that cruelty and destruction were fun. They became so deeply entwined with his mental make-up that they became his defining traits. It wasn't until the good of Dai Kaioshin was introduced that the capacity for anything other than evil became possible.

I'm getting off topic, but the point is: Buu was just a magic construct originally. It was the Majin enchantment that unleashed his potential to be the strongest being in the universe, and allowed him to acquire emotions. Constructs generally don't have true emotion, since they only possess what they are made with. Placing the Majin enchantment on Buu is the equivalent of giving a learning computer to an Android like 16.

If anyone can provide evidence that what I have said is untrue, or has counter-points, then please provide them, and I will be glad to discuss it. I am not Wiki-star, and thus do not repeatedly revert things that I don't agree with. You can feel free to talk to me about anything. :)

Daishokaioshin 00:19, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

I don't disagree with you, and everything that you said is 100% factual. Buu was the first majin created. However, he was designed to be the most powerful and deadliest. I'm not going to be ignore anything or be stubborn, for now. But, if anyone opposes this with foolish excuses then they'll be apart of my ignore list.

Wiki-star 00:25, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

I wasn't asking if you disagreed with me. I was talking to the editor who reverted my changes to the article in regards to Buu being Majined. You and your ignore list aren't being discussed here, and I would appreciate if it could remain that way.

Daishokaioshin 02:08, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Majin Buu was the culmination of Bibidi's magic. Every warrior "majinned" by Babidi had a fraction of that power and was basically conscripted into service with the monicker, used as a temporary asset and discarded after. With them, "Majin" was a title. With Buu, it's part of his name. Buu was never not a Majin, it's part of who he is. He doesn't stop being "Majin" until Fat Buu distinguishes himself as a seperate being from the evil Majin version at the end. Onikage725 04:40, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

To clarify, Majin Buu was created as a Majin and born free of restrictions. Anyone subject to Babidi's spells has their restraints similarly lifted, but none came close to the sheer destructive potential of the original and true Majin. Onikage725 04:57, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Back to square one

I got dragged into this and would like to move on. To begin with, anyone violating WP:Civil or WP:3RR will be blocked. Now, there have been discussions about the debates, but all end in yelling and screaming. Worse, more and more people are disagreeing on issues and not discussing the problem due to hurt feelings. Nothing on Wikipedia should be personal. Do not attempt to start a crusade on this site. Justice is something carried out by troops across the world or policemen at home. Justice is not getting a page to look the way you feel it should. I want everyone to stop, calm down, and list the sources of debate that have sprung up. Do not give long speeches about how this is right or wrong, just the problem, and a sentence or two about why you feel it should be that way. Also, once a concensus is reached, it is vandalism to go against or revert the changes. --Orion Minor 02:04, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

• I agree. Wiki-Star is the main cause of this. He keeps reverting and re-adding pics after being told for the fourteenth time in a row not to do it. And he doesn't show any signs of quitting, but in fact, poses as others and tries to make it seem like people want more pictures when it's actually him just doing sock-puppeteering. I know of this because I originally did this myself when i was new to wiki, but now i no longer do it because i know for a fact that it's utter idiocy. also, wiki-star says he will not stop, so for all intent and purposes, i agree with your consensus my friend orion minor. yes, take whatever action is necessary to stop these annoying reverts and picture additions. - Zarbon

• Wiki-star: Ok let me tell my side of this war. This is the last time i'm going to explain myself. If you still don't understand, then thats just going to make me a more non-negotiable contributor. I don't like to keep repeating myself when everything was allready given. I believe that this article requires all images of the Forms and Transformations. Why? Because they all visualize the Buu. Not everyone watches Dragon Ball Z, some may just heard about Buu. They may just be reading about him, and as a result is new to the series. I'm not only looking out for just 1 audience of readers, but multiple audiences. You folks are telling me that this article does not require more than 7 images. Says who? I'm not even re-adding the images of Buu's Special Abilities anymore, because those section had the most images. Zarbon and Orion Minor have joined some kind of alliance to ensure that the image maximum has not exceed. All of the Transformations require an image, and there is nothing you can say that can oppose this. It's just 6 images. Now, if i decide to add anymore images back to the article, then i'll further explain myself. Now, i've allready explained the purpose of Buu's what if transformations. Those transformations are not within the series. As a result, it is obsolete within this article. It is not a neccessity within the article, and as result does not benefit the article. It has a much bigger purpose within the Budokai 2 article, take it there. Hmmm.... i think thats just about it. If anyone has any questions for me, or believe what i'm doing is wrong, by all means ask. However, i will warn you that should you not give a thorough explanation to stop me from doing this, you will not stop me at all. What i'm doing is not vandalism, if you think that way, thats your buisness. I don't have time to be replying to waist of timers. I have a goal on this site, and you folks are the most least of my problems. Have a nice day!

Wiki-star 17:01, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Wikistar, I'm trying to help you here. I have not formed some cabal with Zarbon. I do not decide what vandalism is, policies have been set in the past. It was decided long ago that if you act against a consensus, that counts as vandalism in Wikipedia. You are right in that everyone has 100% input, but what is that when multiple people are working with different opinions? Well, everyone weighs in and votes. You seem to believe that you have a majority behind you; I challenge that notion. I am confident that the people on this article agree on a few basic points. You are right to say, “Who are we to boss you around.” I’m not trying to boss you around, I’m just trying to get this article to fit within some given standards. If you find more people against you, however, who are you to boss a group of people around? We can all put our names to a vote, but that is not necessary; read the long list of above discussions while your ban passes, read other peoples opinions and ponder this: maybe it’s not all of us, maybe it’s you.--Orion Minor 20:34, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

I personally could care less about a picture here and there (as far as where I weigh on the consensus), so long as it doesn't turn into the horrid mess it used to be. As for Buu's Budokai notes, well every other character has info on notable game appearences, what-if techniques used in them, etc. Cell's page mentions his what-if use of the Genki Dama and his Majin state. If we limit character pages to strictly canon info, then we might as well go to all pages and scrub out anime filler and GT information while we're at it. Wiki-Star, you were the one who challenged me on attack names saying we should give preference to the Budokai names. Why are you now saying info from a Budokai appearance has no place at all? Onikage725 21:51, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

• it's not just the Buu page. apparently, he has been showing this same type of reversion chaos in other pages as well. I just recently went and fixed this same havoc in the Piccolo, Gotenks and Vegetto pages. I'm sure there are other pages Wiki-Star has been adding a few 40 odd pictures in but these are the most recent ones i found. I will of course be trying to limit all pages to 7/8 maximum pictures, depending on the level of the character's importance. For example, he had previously added approximately 30 images to the Gotenks page. I have limited it to 7, and even that's still too many for that character since the character only appears in 7 or so odd episodes out of 291 dbz episodes. The problem with wiki-star is that he thinks that just because he likes a character, they can get 40 images on the pages. he fails to realize that wikipedia isn't a picture gallery or a photo album and he constantly keeps reverting and adding more pictures, if not to the buu page, then to the other dbz related pages. i'm trying my best to keep max images to a certain number of consensus and i'm glad that you are trying to help me keep this under control orion minor. - Zarbon

Proposal

For this whole Super Buu thing, why don't we just leave it out? Sure, it seems fairly obvious to me which Buu is the strongest. However it is a simple fact that it's implied and not flat out stated or confirmed. So why don't we just present the facts as is and leave the speculation to individual readers? I mean, this article goes back and forth in a tug of war between Super Buu w/ Gohan and Kid Buu, depending on who happened to be editing the article that day. I say we just drop the speculation and eliminate the need for argument. Who is absorbed and how he performed in each fight against each fighter is all we have to guage his various levels of strength, and those facts are well presented in the article already. Onikage725 04:08, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Why the lack of Buff Buu?

He has enough information to have a section in the forms section. Is there a reason he isn't there?

65.175.204.220 21:33, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Mega Buu/Buff Buu was seen only twice, and each instance was very short. Making a short mention of him in the transformations section would be fine, but aside from him being the strongest version of Buu (even more so than Super Buu with Gohan absorbed), there isn't much known about him to put into a seperate section.

Daishokaioshin 21:48, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

He has enough information to have a section a little less than Piccolo Buu. He's also stronger than Super Buu, not Gohan Buu. 65.175.204.220 21:53, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

That's a matter of debate. Kid Buu is just below Super Buu with Gotenks and Piccolo absorbed, and above just Super Buu with Piccolo absorbed. The South Kaioshin that Kid Buu absorbed was stronger than him. We don't know for certain just how powerful Super Buu with Gohan absorbed was, except by comparison to others, and since Mega Buu and Super Buu WGA are never compared against each other, we don't know which is stronger. I say Mega Buu is stronger, just because that makes sense to me, but I cannot provide proof that this is the case, nor can anyone else provide proof that the opposite is true, because there isn't enough information to go on. The times we see Mega Buu are far too brief, and he doesn't really do anything, so we don't know which is stronger. Still, I agree, it's a form worth noting.

Daishokaioshin 22:02, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

I definetly contest him being the strongest version of Buu. If you factor that abosrbing Kaioshins' was diluting his power and that SSJ2's surpassed even a Kaioshin in raw power (to say nothing of SSJ3, Mystic, and Fusion)... Also, the Kaioshinkai Massacre appearance was filler, and the second shot was only mid way down to his Kid Buu regression. Honestly, I agree that a small mention works, but there isn't much to say besides "Kid Buu with South Kaioshin absorbed, beat East Kaioshin, absorbed Dai Kaioshin and became Fat Buu." And the article already says that in the bio. His only combat sequance was like a minute of filler, what is there more to add? Onikage725 22:16, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

We can take a look at the Supreme Kai for this. He was absolutely amazed at Gohan's strength when he was taking the Z-Sword. This was a Gohan that was weaker than Cell and that didn't even compare to his later power up. South Kaioshin was said to be the strongest Kaioshin and he was unable to pull the Z-Sword. Also, the strength that Buff Buu had is very confusing because he was just Kid Buu with the South Kaioshin absorbed while Super Buu(who is stronger than Kid Buu) had the power of the South Kaioshin and the Dai Kaioshin at his control. 65.175.204.220 22:09, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

You're assuming that absorbing South Kaioshin made him weaker. Which isn't true. It made him far stronger. It was Dai Kaioshin that made him weaker, because he wasn't powerful at all. As for the Z Sword, if we assume that the South Kaioshin even attempted to pull it free, and this was all about physical strength, rather than overall power, then you might be correct. Since neither of those is the case, I have to disagree with you on this matter. It is very possible that Mega Buu was not the strongest version of Buu. But Goku, after having fused with Vegeta and sensing Super Buu WGA's power as Vegetto, stated that Buu was very strong when Buu momentarily reverted to Mega Buu. Whether he meant "very strong but not stronger than Super Buu WGA" or he meant "very strong compared to any other form of Buu" is unknown. I'll be the first to admit that this isn't incontrovertible evidence of anything in particular other than that Mega Buu may have been the second strongest version of Buu (since two beings of Kid Buu's strength would exceed the power of Super Buu with Gotenks and Piccolo absorbed), but it is something to consider at least.

Daishokaioshin 22:25, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Dai Kaioshin made him weaker because he was pure good, not because he was weak. Why would Buu absorb someone he could easily kill? When they were talking about his power increasing, that was from Super Buu to Buff Buu. Seeing as they were scared of regular Super Buu, this makes sense. Then they comment on his drop in power to Kid Buu.

Buff Buu is about the same as Piccolo Buu. "Gotenks Buu with Gotenks' power lost, scared of being beaten, absorbed Gohan and became Gohan Buu." 65.175.204.220 22:32, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Hm, I haven't picked up the last volume yet, so that limits my credibility somewhat. My impression however is that both Kid Buu and Buff Buu shouldn't exceed Super Buu (just from a logisitics standpoint), because Super Buu had the best of both worlds. He had South kaioshin, just as Buff Buu did. He had Dai Kaioshin, and one doesn't invent all of creation without possessing some measure of power. On top of which, he isolated his good self to the point that he was, as described in the manga "pure evil" and " a beast of destruction." Fat Buu's only influence on him was that he couldn't kill Mr. Satan...but Kid Buu had that same problem at first, and no "Kid Buu is the best" supporter holds that against him when referencing his destruction of Earth or initial fight with Goku. Other than that lingering memory, Super Buu was listed in manga and Daizenshuu as a being of pure evil, so I don't see how he could be said to have a diluted power source. Super Buu with power diluted by goodness is...well...Fat Buu. Onikage725 22:48, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

About "Buff Buu", I think a mention of this form should at least be added to the Forms and transformations section since it was in fact an actual transformation (whether it was in a flashback or not, though my understanding is that it wasn't in the manga). I have an image and text ready to be added if we do agree to add the information.-3bulletproof16 02:08, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Pretty sure it was in fact in the manga, as a midpoint between Super Buu and Kid Buu in the regression. I think the story goes that Toriyama drew the transformation to shown him bulk up before shrinking. Toei created the filler flashback to draw out the episode, having Kaiobito reflect on Buu's origin and showing the Kaioshinkai Massacre. As part of this, they opted to explain the buff midpoint by saying that Kid Buu absorbed South Kaioshin and took on his muscular characteristics. Becauser of that, the canonicity of the form has been debated. Buff Buu as a transformation only existed in filler. Was it inteded as a past transformations, or did Toriyama simply have Buu expand before shrinking? That's not clear. One thing though, there is no way Buff Buu could have been stronger than Super Buu, at least not as presented in the anime. Buu's canon absorptions show us that when he absorbs, his appearance takes its primary characteristics from the most powerful absorbed being. Look at Super Buu w/ Gotenks and Piccolo vs Super Buu w/ Goten, Trunks, and Piccolo. The moment Goten and Trunks lost the benefits of fusion, Piccolo's characteristics expressed themselves (as a Super Namek is stronger than a normal Super Saiyan). Therefore, South Kaioshin couldn't have been superior to Dai Kaioshin. Maybe in combat prowess but not in raw power. Otherwise we wouldn't have gotten Fat Buu. If the "Buff" state frightened the characters more than Kid Buu during the manga scene, then the whole "South Kaioshin absorbed form" would constitute as a filler-created plothole. Onikage725 11:53, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure the manga has Kabito-Kai say that it's the form with South Kaioshin absorbed. 65.175.204.220 21:44, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

So should there be a mention of this form in the Forms and transformations section? Like I said, I have an image and text ready to be added if we do agree to add the information.-3bulletproof16 22:13, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

I think it should be added. 65.175.204.220 22:21, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

The thing is that the form appeared for like 6 minutes during a flash back sequence plus an intermittent point between his transformation from Super Buu to Kid Buu. I mean it IS a form he did take on (Though I think someone mentioned it was anime only) so I guess its fair to add.

Darkwarriorblake 22:41, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

The form was in the manga and how he aborbed the South Kaioshin was mentioned. The flash back was filler, though. 65.175.204.220 22:49, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

I think it should have a mention under Kid Buu. The nuts and bolts are described already in the bio, and saying it again is redundant. The form appears once in the manga as an in-between from Super to Kid, and once again in the anime flashback as a brief mid-section between Kid and Fat. That's my vote anyway. Onikage725 13:14, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Uub

Does the section on him need to be so in-depth? Apart from Majin Buus interaction with him he isn't really a Buu, reincarnation or not and he has a seperate article on himself (Even though IMO its poorer than the section currently in the Buu article).

It might not be a problem I'm just wondering if it adds too much to the length of the page like some of the sections on Buus actions during the Buu saga.

I would surmise a link to Uub's page would be sufficient, however, currently there isn't a discussion re: Uub's page, so perhaps it's best to keep his information here for now? In regards to it, I believe there is a mistake in saying Uub's first appearance in GT is emerging from the HBTC, as the episode clearly shows Goku and Uub fighting in the area beneath the top of Kami's lookout (in the semi-circle dome underside), with Dende and PoPo watching. I don't know the name of this area of Kami's lookout, and am new to Wiki editing, so I'm hesitant to be presumptuous and change it.--Insanityrealmv2 08:46, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

He actually has two articles, Uub and Majuub. The Uub article covers Majuub. Merger, anyone? Onikage725 13:32, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

100% Merge...-3bulletproof16 16:22, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Buff Buu/Mega Buu/Super Kid Buu

I personally feel that "Buff Buu" is a rather stupid name, while Mega Buu fits with the theme of other naming conventions for the various Buu forms, but I'm not going to insist on the name being the "official" one used in the article. However, "Super Kid Buu" has also been suggested. I don't see this as being a very good name, but I wanted to see what other people think, rather than reverting things over and over without discussion.

Daishokaioshin 22:18, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

I've never heard of Super Kid Buu being used. It sounds stupid to me. I like Buff Buu, but Mega Buu works fine, as well. 65.175.204.220 22:42, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

He isn't a version of Kid Buu, hes a massively over-muscled Buu. Calling him Super Kid Buu is ridiculous since he doesn't look at all like his original self, he looks like a Buu who has absorbed someone big and muscly. Regardless of what you pick, SUper Kid Buu is out.Darkwarriorblake 00:24, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

After the initial discussion I went and picked up the final volume (and I recant what I said, the Kaioshinkai Massacre was clearly described, the only difference is that the anime added imagery to the scene). I don't have it available at this minute, but if anyone does...what word do they use in that section? The question is asked, after Kaiobito says that Buu absorbed South Kaioshin, if that's when he made the transformation into Buff Buu. There's a word used (might have been buff, even). I suggest that word was the closest we get to a name for the form. If noone has it available, I'll check later tonight when I can read the section. Onikage725 22:31, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Ok in that section they refer to South Kaioshin as burly and Buu in that form as a "muscle man." So would that imply a name of...Burly Buu or Muscular Buu? Just tossing some ideas out there. Onikage725 22:53, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Dai is right. "Buff Buu" is a REALLY stupid name, because "Buff" is an expression word and would NOT be appropiate for an encyclopedia. "Mega Buu" and "Super Kid Buu" are better names, the latter being better. Jienum

Wiki-star's Actions

• Wiki-star: Yes i know i have returned. However, nothing hasn't really changed about me. I'm still going to re-add and eliminate. However, i've decided to thoroughly explain my actions. Firstly, i have stated many times that Super Buu w/Gohan is the nicest of all Super Buus.

He is not the nicest Buu, as that title goes toward Fat Buu by far. However, he is the least evil of all the Super Buus. First off, lets check the other Super Buus:

Super Buu: This is of course, the original Super Buu. He is of course the most evil of all the Super Buus, because he commited the most haneous and evil acts. He killed almost all human beings, he went down a gunman's throat and killed him, he changed Chi-Chi into a egg and squished her, he ate everyone at Kami's lookout. I mean, this guy did some pretty nasty stuff. If anyone disagrees with me here, then by all means explain why. But you better have some good evidence for your case!

Super Buu w/Gotenks and Picollo: This next Super Buu is 2nd most evil of all the Super Buus. He beated Gohan to a pulp, he knocked out Tien with a hard kick, he was about to kill Fat Buus dog...Bee, he was about to destroy earth. He did some evil things, but not as evil as Super Buu. If anyone disagrees here, speak now.

Super Buu w/Picollo: This Buu is unknown. He was only seen briefly, as a result he could be a candidate for the nicest Super Buu. However, because he never actually did anything nice, he cannot beat our next candidate. His only action was absorbing Gohan. He is unknown and is therefore not an actuall candidate.

Super Buu w/Gohan: Our winner for the nicest Super Buu. This Buu's power is paramount, and can easily topple all other Buus for being the strongest form. He performed the nicest acts of all Super Buus. He gave Goku a chance to fuse with someone, even if the result may indeed be stronger than himself. He gave Goku and Vegeta many opportunities to attack him. He changed Vegetto back into his saiyan form. He did not destroy earth after he defeated Vegetto. This Buu commited the nicest and most considerate acts of any Super Buu. As a result, his evil is the least of all. If anyone disagree, speak now.

That solves my case with Super Buu w/Gohan being the nicest Super Buu.

Now, onto the Super Buu's "what-if transformations" from Budokai 2. This information is not neccassary within this article. These transformations are false, and is therefore not factual. There is no logic, no reason, no explanation for this section to be displayed within this article. This section better belongs within the Budokai 2 article. Yes, i cannot tell knowone what to do. However, neither can you all. And as a result i am explaining why i am deleting this section. If anyone has anything to oppose this, speak now!

My next case brings me to the deletion of the external links and episode appearance sections. These section give greater detail on Buu. The external links will link the Reader to resources where they can better understand Buu, and compair it to what they have read on Wikipedia. If anyone has anything to say that will oppose this, speak now!

Now, the episode appearance section. Yes, it may take up a colossal amount of space, however i'm going to leave this debatable. If i am not persuaded as to why this section should remain deleted, then i willl bring it back, and will keep bringing it back until i am further proven wrong for my actions.

And lastly, i will leave this section open for any other sections that contributors think i am wrong. Remember, explain your case. I have done my explanation, be fair and do you'rs! Thanks you.

Wiki-star 03:33, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

I'll give this a shot and see if it works. Ok, this nicest/meanest of all Super Buu's thing is utterly pointless. That's like waging a war to put in "evidence" that Perfect Cell was nice because he was more polite than he was in his first stage. Buu isn't nice, with the sole exception of Fat Buu after he supresses (and later expels) the evil side. What we have left after Fat Buu expels him is one Buu that is good and one that isn't. Think of Kami and Piccolo Daimaou. It was a similar situation. And the evidence is circumstantial. You say Super Buu's genocide attack was so evil, yet point out that Super Buu 2 would have destroyed the Earth itself. Super Buu 3, you're so-called nicest, tried to undo creation. None of them are nice. With Gohan and Piccolo absorbed, Buu had great intelligence and adopted some of their traits. As such he was more calculating, perhaps a little more polite, and developed a taste for toying with his opponents and letting them get free shots to prolong his enjoyment. He was by NO means "nice." Freeza was polite as all Hell, and gave free hits and handicaps to prey he was having fun with, and even scolded his own henchmen if they were rude to people they were about to kill. Was he nice? Of course not, and neither is Super Buu. And waging a war just to add the word "nice" to a section on a highly destructive villain is beyond pointless.

And for VG info, every other character has info on VG appearances. As long as it's clear they were non-canon, there's no harm. I find it very odd that you're upset about this when you used to fight to name the attacks after what Budokai named them.

Episode lists? Absolutely no need. What other character's page does this? All it does is take up extra space. He was in pretty much every episode from his appearance to the end anyway. Onikage725 14:44, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

No. We have discussed this at length already. The "reasons" you give for that form of Buu being "nice" are completely flawed and incorrect. We don't need to persuade you of anything. Episode list will remain gone. Forms from videogames will remain present. Fat Buu is the ONLY nice Buu, and all the others are completely evil. Stop ruining the article, and stay gone. Please.

Daishokaioshin 03:59, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Well, i guess Daishokaioshin has given me permission to keep re-adding and reverting endlessly without reason. Thanks man, you rock!!! Wiki-star 04:01, 22 June 2006 (UTC) (P.S) And if you really want me gone, request that i become permanently banned.

No, I have given you permission to go crawl in a hole and die. You are a disease here on wikipedia. Everthing you touch is ruined. You are scum, and should just leave wikipedia forever. You are obviously a psychopath from your obsession with this article, and your refusal to accept the truth in what others say. We have explained things to you so many times that I don't feel like being nice about it anymore. GO. AWAY. DO NOT COME BACK. Neither I nor anyone else will allow you to remain here on wikipedia with your current behavior. If you can become an actually useful editor that ISN'T intent on destroying articles, then I will take back everything I have said, and apologize. Until that time, just leave things alone. We have been working hard on this article, repairing all the damage you caused, and improving it. You are trying to revert things to an OLD version that is full of errors, typos, and your own stupidity. Try looking over all the improvements that were made before stubbornly reverting to your worthless version of this article.

P.S. I already did, and they only banned you for 48 hours. Hopefully you'll be banned for good this time when you continue to vandalize the article.

Daishokaioshin 04:07, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

First, Wikipedia:No personal attacks and Wikipedia:Civil are two very important things you should both read. Daishokaioshin, that was way over the line. This is not a forum, screaming and yelling until the other person walks away is not how you get things done in Wikipedia or the real world. Leave the article as is, before Wikistar's edits. Everything calmed down when he was gone. If you want to make the changes, reach a concensus then edit. Revert wars are bad for the readers and editors. --Orion Minor 07:46, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

If there's such a thing Wiki-star should be reported for outright baiting and (to be fair) Daisho as well for WP:NPA. And that which you ask to be opposed Wiki has been again and again on edit summaries and within these pages; there's little left to go over, as you either ignore consensus or continually restate your argument and need to be persuaded. Threatening to do something if you're not is laughable under any circumstance. Voice of Treason 11:03, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Dai broke decorum, but I honestly don't think we can blame 'er. Wiki-star put this article through HFIL last week, and the minute he returns he writes this essay basically telling us all that he won't change and will immediately resume doing exactly what he got in trouble for. He also said numerous times if anyone disagreed to "speak now." Dai spoke up, and Wiki-star's response was "Well, i guess Daishokaioshin has given me permission to keep re-adding and reverting endlessly without reason." Then adding that the only way to stop him from doing this crap is to convince an admin to ban him for good? This is beyond ridiculous. Onikage725 14:44, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

If you need another voter to explain to admins why he should be banned, sign me up, the guy is unable to let go until the article is exactly how he wants it. THese arguements for Super Buu being nicest are ludicrous.Darkwarriorblake 13:34, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

• Wiki-star: You folks have given me even more ammunition to keep re-adding and deleting endlessly. Now this should be fun. I really don't care if i become permanently banned here. This place provides a colossal amount of negativity, and little room for anything else. Life can continue elsewhere. Wiki-star 15:16, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

If that's the attitude you choose to take, then at least have the decency to choose to leave instead of vandalising until you get yourself banned. Save everyone the time and trouble. But you should also keep in mind, while you play the role of the innocent victim, that noone has a problem with you contributing or with your ideas. The problem comes when you disagree with people and decide to flex your muscle. The purpose of opening a discussion is to talk with other editors about a change and reach a consensus. You don't open discussions with intent to listen. You start a conversation to tell other people what you have decided, and then by your own words, you give them two chances to change their point of view to match yours, or you ignore anything they have to say. That, my friend isn't cooperation. That condescending attitude is what earned the negativity you now feel. Prime example- this discussion. It would have been one thing to open a discussion saying something like "I feel that we should mention blahblah about Super Buu, that the external links should stay, that the episode list should stay, that the VG info should go, and here's why. What do you guys think?" Instead you declared that you WOULD make these changes and contest ANYTHING to the contrary, and gave people what you consider their one chance to speak their mind...and then ignore them if they don't agree. That discussion is awfully one-sided. Even now, there's talk of your actions and concern that you go too far, and how do you respond? That we give you ammunition and that you will add and revert endlessly, policy and contributor consensus be damned? Very mature. Onikage725 16:08, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

• Wiki-star: One again you all fail to understand what i am trying to say. This is the reason why i will always be on my side on not on you all's. Everything that i said before makes sense. Cell and Freeza do not have multiple personalities. Buu is the only villain that fits in this category. You know what, i really don't have time for this. I tried explaining myself and some disrespectful contributor named Daishokaioshin come in and insult me? This is bullshit, i'm better of banned! Wiki-star 16:34, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

"Well, i guess Daishokaioshin has given me permission to keep re-adding and reverting endlessly without reason. Thanks man, you rock!!!" and another comment were obvious baiting even before Daisho lost his top. Stating your innocence works better when there's not evidence to the contrary a few paragraphs above your last comment. Voice of Treason 18:30, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Daishokaioshin is the one responsible for keeping the article up to Manual of Style guide lines and you, Wiki-star, have done nothing more than violate not only the trust we had in you to clean up your own disrespectful conduct, but also countless Wikipedia policies that I had not even heard of until you came along. Wiki-star, you had your chance, now its that time of the month again. You have been reported.-3bulletproof16 16:58, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

I'd like to apologize for my behavior. It was inappropriate, didn't follow wikipedia's rules, and didn't help the situation at all. While I am beyond frustrated with Wiki-star's childish behavior, I should have logged off and calmed down before responding if I was that upset. I certainly meant most of what I said to Wiki-star (about him being harmful to wikipedia with his behavior, and his failure to accept the truth in what others say, in favor of believing what he wants to believe in the fact of direct evidence to the contrary), but telling him to die was out of line. I don't wish death on anyone. I'd just like for him to clean up his act if he plans on remaining on wikipedia.

Hopefully, people will not think less of me for being human (ie. making mistakes, and occasionally succumbing to my emotions) since I have attempted to be logical and polite most of the time I've been here. I would like to continue discussing things with people in a civil manner, and would like to never again resort to being as brutal about stating the facts of someone else's short comings in the future. If someone has problems, that's their business. I am here to help wikipedia, not act as a critic of other people, or as a psychotherapist.

Thanks for your patience with me.

Daishokaioshin 18:45, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Don't sweat it Dai, we all make mistakes. I doubt anyone will lose faith in you. You're a credit to these articles. And you make the effort to clear up misunderstandings and apologize for wrongdoing, which is more than can be said about some. Onikage725 09:20, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Onikage is right, Dai. I used to be a real pest with another article once, but then another user named Apostrophe told me that my actions were wrong. Let's just stop this Wiki-Star or whoever the hell he is from vandalising the article, and if he doesn't, we can request that he be banned. Jienum

Survey- Wiki-star's proposed edits

To get a gauge on where everyone stands on this ongoing issue, vote below if you think Wiki-star's suggestions as he outlined in the above discussion should be put in place or not. Onikage725 16:21, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Please sign your name using four tildes (~~~~) under the position you support, preferably adding a brief comment. If you are happy with more than one possibility, you may wish to sign your names to more than one place. Extended commentary should be placed below, in the section marked "Discussion", though brief commentary can be interspersed.

• Change Super Buu w/ Gohan to reflect him as the "nicest" of Super Buu's forms.

• Remove all mention of Buu's video game transformations.

• Re-add the external links.
  • While I'm not sure what links where there, I think a link to this page would be appropriate: http://www.daizex.com/guides/transformations/buu/index.shtml Onikage725 17:18, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
• Re-add the episode appearences.

• Don't feel any of the above should be implemented.

Discussion

Leave comments about the above poll here.

Can you show what external links he's proposing? TTN 16:40, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm not entirely sure to be honest, and it's hard combing through his various edits to pinpoint... Onikage725 17:18, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

The video game transformations should be present, it is an article on Buu at it has as much place as a section on his influence in popular culture would. Super Buu W/Gohan also makes no sense, that should be left as Super Buu (Aborbed whomever). Super Buu is not nice, he is arrogant as is every form of his after Fat Buu and every villain in the series and everyone stronger than someone else in the series.Darkwarriorblake 19:55, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

• Change Super Buu w/ Gohan to reflect him as the "nicest" of Super Buu's forms.

Wikipedia is not a publisher of original thought - Wikipedia:Neutral point of view

• Remove all mention of Buu's video game transformations.

Discussed millions of times and an overall consensus was formed.

• Re-add the external links.

Wikipedia is not a soapbox Wikipedia is not a mirror or a repository of links, images, or media files

• Re-add the episode appearences.

Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information

Don't feel any of the above should be implemented, except maybe this link, [1]. Just wanted to clear that up.-3bulletproof16 18:02, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

---

Comment on 3RR report

No need to do that Onikage725, the kid came back, he had his chance to clean up his act, and now he is in violation of the Three-revert rule... AGAIN. Guess what... It's that time of the month again! Wiki-star has been reported. To comment please do so here AND here. - 3bulletproof16 18:10, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

I did, and though it's not new to most of us recent edits are more than ignoring 3RR. Posted comments there and on WP:ANI. Voice of Treason 18:51, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Page protected

This page is hereby protected from editing until disputes have been resolved. This is a temporary measure to prevent revert warring. Please come to a consensus on what should be in the article, then either contact me to request unprotection or request unprotection on WP:RfPP. Page protection in not an endorsement of the current page version. Thank you. --Lord Deskana ^{Dark Lord of YOUR OPINIONS} 08:03, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

What should we do when it's impossible to end it unless Wiki-star is banned? TTN 16:47, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

I made quite a few significant changes and improvements to the Majin Buu page, and what really annoys me is the fact that that "Wiki-Star" (I would most definetely NOT call that an apt name) has the gall to vandalise my changes, not to mention those of all the other good people on Wikipedia. I say: BAN HIM!!!, PUT THE WIKI-STAR OUT!!!!. Jienum

I and a lot of others have made a lot of significant changes to this page in formatting and content and it just is repeatedly vandalised. You can't stop people editing the page because that isn't what Wikipedia is about but I think its been proven by Wikistar that he is not able to change. I mean in real life, that many infractions against the law is like your third strike. He won't learn and the consensus is that everyone wants it the way it is and only Wiki-star sets about changing it.

I honestly don't remember a lot of people causing issues with the addition of speculation and pointless information, nowhere near as bad as some articles like Akatsuki from Naruto, its just Wiki-Star alone and to have upset so many contributors trying to make a fully informed and well presented article, there is no real way to go about this apart from permanently banning him from the article. He seems to be taking bannings as a reason to go out on a personal vendetta against anyone and everyone who would alter this article until he wins by everyone else giving up.

I'm fairly sure from the edit list that people are happy with the article as it is for the majority.Darkwarriorblake 14:00, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Tsk Tsk Tsk, the article didn't have to be this way. You folks could've just hear me out, and understand my facts. But, what can i say. Sometimes the judgements are based on the actions and not the reasons. Oh well! Wiki-star 19:51, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

"Your facts" are not facts. They are opinion, without any good supporting evidence. You fail to understand the simplest explanations and insist that everyone see it your way "or else". That's not how wikipedia works. The page being locked is a direct result of your flagrant disregard for the rules, and for other contributors.

Daishokaioshin 20:33, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Well, whenever you feel like talking to me face to face, then the article will be open for improvements. Until then, it will stay like this forever! Wiki-star

I believe I am already talking to you, Wiki-star. If you mean by "face to face" that I meet you outside of wikipedia, then you are very confused. I would never want to meet you. I can't stand talking to you on here. Why would I want to subject myself to you in real life? And no, the article will not remain like this forever. There are two possible solutions to this problem. You can wise up and learn to work with other contributors instead of insisting that everything be your way, or you can be banned from wikipedia for good when you continue to vandalize the article. It's your choice.

Daishokaioshin 21:39, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Whether or not you wish to meet me face to face in reality is not a factor in this conflict, we're trying to restore the article. So please discuss with me what your problems are. Wiki-star 21:42, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm tired of repeating myself. Review all the previous discussion here on the talk page if you don't know what my problems with you are.

Daishokaioshin 21:46, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

• Wiki-star: Well if those are actually the problem you have with me, then you are the least(est) of all my resolutions within the Buu article. Anywayz, would anyone else like to talk?

Wiki-star 21:55, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Future of the Buu Article

• Wiki-star: Ok folks, it's obvious that knowone is getting anywhere successfully within this article. People want the article one way, while others want it another. The way i see it, is that point of views are a stalemate. Knowone will come to a compromise until things are thoroughly explained. Yes, i am by far the biggest nemesis to this article. I do some bad, but mostly good. I have voilated rules, but when things get this nasty, theres really no other choice. So, i'm proposing we all come to a truce right here, right now. If we can't come to together and enrichen this Buu article, theres no way in hell that anyone of us will EVER see this article in peace. So whaddya say folks? Wiki-star 20:07, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

No. You could just leave the article alone, and everything would be fine. And it isn't "some people want it one way and others want it another". It's "everyone wants it one way, but YOU want it another". You do all bad, and NO good. And violating the rules is NEVER an option here on wikipedia. You violated the rules not because there was no other choice, but because you are obsessed with having it your own way, and anyone who disagrees with you is insulted and ignored. You have had plenty of chances to accept what others say, and to discuss things peacefully, but you always resort to name-calling and acting arrogant. Just leave the article alone and everyone (with the possible exception of you, but that's okay) will be happy.

Daishokaioshin 20:16, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Dai you are a problem causer and my ultra enemy from long ago. Regardless of wheteer or not Wiki-Star is a problem which he is not you are just messing this article up. It is I and Wiki-Star who will improve this so i give you everything you need to get out 2 against 1 Dragon Emperor 20:42, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Maybe if the two of you had a proper grasp of the language. Geez, it hurts my head just reading what you last wrote. Onikage725 00:11, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Dragon Emperor, stay out of this. All your edits are pointless spam and you make no sense at all. I'm guessing you're an alt for Wiki-star or just some person that likes to pretend to be clueless.

Wiki-star, just look at what Daishokaioshin said. Nemu 20:55, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

You pig dontv insult me man please Dragon Emperor 21:05, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

None of us are in the mood for an Ass-Kisser, Dragon Emperor. So stay out of the argument until you have something other than an insult or a mindless comment to say. We're talking seriously. As for you, Wiki-Star (inept name, I think), I think it's about time you stopped messing around on this encyclopedia. We've all just about had enough of you, and if you don't stop, you eventually will be banned for good. Not that we care, though it will just make us happy once that day finally comes. Jienum

Both of you, stop the attacks and insults immidiately or you will be blocked. Comment on content, not the contributors. --Lord Deskana ^{Dark Lord of YOUR OPINIONS} 21:26, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Don't tell us what to do, Dark Lord. If we are insulted, we insult back, so you back off. Jienum

I believe Deskana is an Admin. And even if he/she isn't, they are right. Personal attacks are not the way of wikipedia. Try to tone it down, regardless of if Wiki-star or others are being rude. You can state the facts about their behavior, but name-calling is just sinking to Wiki-star's level.

Daishokaioshin 21:44, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

If you actually think about it i haven't really been a problem here. Everything that i have said was a fact. Super Buu w/Gohan being a possible strongest form of Buu, him also being the least evil of all the Super Buus, the Budokai 2 information being useless, the episode appearances being inserted, external links being available. I mean, didn't you folks realize i got over the image issue? I never inserted another image, besides the ones from the Forms and Transformation section. I could've, but i decided it was the right thing to do, and left it without pictures. You folks are no better than i am, because the fact is that you all revert and quarrell just like i did. I really don't care what you all think of me, as long as justice is served! Wiki-star 21:28, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

You have been a HUGE problem here. You have been rude, you have been insulting, you have repeatedly violated 3RR, and gone against general concensus on the content of this article to the point of vandalism. You are dillusional if you think you haven't done anything wrong.

Daishokaioshin 21:44, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

"Justice is Served"!? Where do you think you are, Wiki-Star? In a courtroom!? Just leave the damn page alone and everything will be fine, for god's sake! Jienum

• Wiki-star: Here we are suppose to be resolving an issue, and you folks are rejecting me instead of inviting me. And you all question yourselves why i ignore you all. Tsk, Tsk, Tsk!

Wiki-star 21:32, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

• Jienum: Why should we invite you? All you do is say abnormal things and stick up for your wrongdoings, even though you know perfectly well they ARE wrongdoings.

Wiki-star: You have over ten people that don't agree with your edits. Why do you still push this? Propose your edits one more time and we'll have a vote on them. If you loose, will you stop? Nemu 21:36, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

• Wiki-star: Whether or not people agree with my edits isn't my concern, quite frankly i could care less. What is a factor here, is that my edits are a fact and can be proven logical, and there is nothing you can do about it. You can compromise and offer an alternative, but you cannot deny it's truth. But that sounds like a Capital idea Nemu, i'm up for it! Wiki-star 21:44, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

..."What is a factor here, is that it is a fact and there is nothing you can do about it." WHAT is a fact? That you don't care about actual contributors having a problem with your vandalism? If that is what you were referring to then the "What is a factor here" doesn't belong in that sentence. Grammar, and sentence structure aside: The reason why you have been banned repeatedly, and will continue to be banned is because of that attitude problem of yours. Saying you don't care about the opinions of contributors to wikipedia doesn't solve anything. It's just more of you being arrogant and refusing to acknowledge that anyone besides yourself could be right.

Daishokaioshin 21:49, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

There you go again Dai! You see, it's ignorance like that which will always bring you down to a disgraceful level which doesn't suit you. Everything that i have said and mention towards this article can rarely, if not impossibly be argued. For example, there is NO contributor on Wikipedia that can persuade me as to why Super Buu w/Gohan isn't the strongest Buu. Thats just logical, and just cannot be debated really. Wiki-star 21:52, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

In what way am I displaying ignorance and being "disgraceful"? By correcting your atrocious English? By pointing out that you have been banned repeatedly for your violations of 3RR? By making it known to you that your bad attitude is not helping the situation in any way? It seems that "ignorance" is yet another word you don't know how to use properly, along with "obsolete".

Daishokaioshin 22:04, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm still waiting for you to persuade me why Super Buu w/Gohan isn't the strongest of all Buus? Wiki-star 22:07, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Well you can just keep waiting on that since I never said he wasn't?

Daishokaioshin 22:11, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Well first you need to prove he isn't stronger with a fusion Super Saiyan 3/Buu/Piccolo formation for a start. Secondly, that wasn't the full arguement, you were also stating that he was the nicest Buu and you went on a tangent about this subject for a long while despite all evidence to the contrary. You are not capable of agreeing with anyone unless they are agreeing with you Wiki-Star, any discussion is pointless. Even if we reached an agreement you would only then retract it and begin editing it to your liking again. I tell you this now, everyone but you accepts it the way it is, no-one but you makes drastic changes they only clean up and update information currently present, you however change content, format and remove large chunks of information.Darkwarriorblake 23:35, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Kid Buu

Regardless of whether he is more powerful super buu would be imidietly destroyed by the kid because he is so ruthless hed quickly eliminate him Dragon Emperor 21:12, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

No. They only way that Kid Buu is threatening to people stronger than him is if they can't survive in space. Even if Kid Buu blew up the planet they were on, Super Buu would survive and procede to kill Kid Buu in space. What does this have to do with anything anyways? Nemu 21:15, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

• Wiki-star: When it comes to Kid Buu, the only advantage he has over the Super Buus, are: Speed, Evil, and Stamina. Kid Buu excels greatly in these attributes than any other Buu. The Super Buus (more specifically Super Buu w/Gohan) is/are the strongest Buu(s). Just plain logical. Wiki-star 21:35, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Article Resolution: Final Votes

ATTENTION!!: The following controversies are only for the discussion of resolving a major crisis within this article. If you are not one of the main negotiators who are involved within the crisis, we encourage that you make as much effort not to get yourself involved. However, if you feel the need to say something involving the article, by all means. We apologize for the inconvenience, and we very well appreciate your patience. Thank You!

Good evening ladies and Gentlemen. It is my honor, Wiki-star, to present the Final Debate for the Buu article. There has been many cries, and many michieves commited in such a great article. Many contributors felt hurt, and confused, and flustered. But all that is about to come to an end right now. I, as the user Wiki-star, hold the majority of the confusion held up within this article. As a result, it is my responsibilty to give each and every contributor the final chance to say their mind on my proposed edits. Before we begin the debate, first we will go over the participation.

There are a couple of "Main Participants" within this debate, that will hold the majority of the debate. These contributors include:

• Wiki-star
• Onikage725
• Daishokaishin
• Orion Minor
• Voice of Treason
• <Unknown>
• <Unknown>
• <Unknown>
• <Unknown>

In total, there should be 10 maximum "Main Participants" within this debate. Four of the Ten participants cannot be named at this time, because of casualties. However If you feel that you are one of the Four <Unknown> "Main Participants" (or "MP's"), please contact Wiki-star on his user page, and explain your reasons. Replies can be as soon as immidiately, or as late as 2 Days. Once again, the Main Participants are those that have the majority of the debate, since these contributors have had a long history during this crisis.

Next, we have "Other Participants" (or "OP's"). These participants don't hold a substantial amount of the Debate unlike our Main Participators, but they do have a role within the debate. That Role depends on whether or not the participant wishes to debate for a Main Participator, or for themselves. Regardless, the OP's have a good amount of saying towards the debate. OP's have not been in this crisis for as long as MP's, as a result there are only 5:

• Zarbon
• 3bulletproof16
• Dragon Emperor
• <Unknown>
• <Unknown>

Like the MP's, Other Participants have <Unknown> members. If you think you are one of the Three <Unknown> members, contact Wiki-star.

And finally, our least important and experienced participators are the Guests. Guests are unlimited, as anyone who is not an MP or an OP can be infinite. Guests are those who feel they would like to have a say in the debate, to further strengthen a case, or better improve the article. They are not entitled to participate unlike the MP's or OP's, because it would be more of an interruption than a participation. Guests should present themselves within the debate respectfully and courteously, as to not distract the core debaters or interrupt the resolution.

That ladies and Gentlemen are the Participation Regulation. If you have any questions or concerns, please contact Wiki-star.

Now ladies and gentlemen, we approach the Rules Section. This can also be called, the "RS". The Rules Section must always be abided by all participators. And voilation in correspondence, and the participant will face consequences. The following are the Rules for the Debate:

Rule #1: Do not be rude, disrespectful, impatient, or any other negative and hurtful act. This is the final debate that will decide the fate of the article, and we need to come to together in a peaceful, and mannerable act.

Rule #2: All Participants must provide either a Support or Oppose response in co-ordination with each of the Proposed Edits. This means that you cannot be in-between. You must choose a side, and stick with that side for that response.

Rule #3: All participants must provide a logical and evidential support for their response towards a Proposed Edit. This means that whatever your response maybe, it must be backed up by either: The Series, The Video Games, or Any Other Resources. You cannot just choose Support or Oppose without a logical and evidential reason.

Rule #4: Any Participant who has been proven wrong for their response to a Proposed Edit, will be banned from responding to that Proposed Edit. This means that if you voilate Rule #3, you will recieve this consequence. So try to make sure you give a thorough explanation.

Rule #5: The final fate of a Proposed Edit will be determined when all of MP's and OP's have agreed to accept it's fate. Which means, unless all 10 MP's, and all 5 OP's accept the Proposed Edit's fate, it will be neutral, and remain neutral until so. However, if a participant does not reply in 1 week, their response no longer has an effect towards it's fate.

If you follow these simple 5 rules ladies and gentlemen, your responses should have little, or absolutley no flaws.

Now for the moment you've all been waiting for! Time to post the Proposed Edits. The Proposed Edits (or the "PE's) are the Resolutions in which all participants will debate and come to final decision on. Most of these resolutions are from the user, Wiki-star. Others are from other contributors. The following are the Proposed Edits for the Buu article:

PE #1: Allow Super Buu w/Gohan the title for Buu's strongest form PE #2: Allow Super Buu w/Gohan the title for "least evil" Super Buu PE #3: Allow External Links to be visible for other resourcing PE #4: Delete the Budokai 2 informations PE #5: Comine the Uub sections, into a new, more Concise section PE #6: Add any more known facts about each of Buu's forms and transformations

Preparations will continue tomorrow.....

This is not how you conduct a straw poll in Wikipedia. The proper, less complicated, version is below. Use that. You should have read Wikipedia: straw polls. Also, don't wipe things from the talk page. Post a summary of your edits in a new topic and then let us vote. This, while I'm sure included a large amount of work, is not the way it is done in Wikipedia. --Orion Minor 23:40, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

You cannot simply make up rules as you wish, especially when you have disregarded existing ones such as the 3RR. Everyone else is contributing to the straw poll; I'm asking you to use that as well. Please post your proposed edits under the talk page. At this rate, you will not even have a chance to voice your opinion. --Orion Minor 00:09, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

• Wiki-star: I don't have to do anything right now. I'll sit back, wait until everyone signs their name under the "Reject" option, and see the looks on everyone's faces when they think they have finally tone me down. Like i said before, this was an agreement made by me, and Nemu. Wiki-star 00:13, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Buu Straw Poll

Please sign your name using four tildes (~~~~) under the position you support, preferably adding a brief comment. If you are happy with more than one possibility, you may wish to sign your names to more than one place. Extended commentary should be placed below, in the section marked "Discussion", though brief commentary can be interspersed. --Orion Minor 23:59, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

• Allow Wikistar's edits
  • Wiki-star 00:40, 26 June 2006 (UTC) I support myself over all the other contributors, because:

A: None of them have given a specific Proposal which the Reject
B: None of them have given an evidential support for their Rejection
C: Each of my Proposal have each been thoroughly explained in the above Resolution
D: All of the Rejected Supports have been treating me like a piece of shit
E: All of the Rejected Supporters have all voilated the agreement made between myself and Nemu, and as a result formed and alliance with Nemu to annihilate me. As we gain more Rejected Supporters, my support and Proposal Edits will become more and more evident, which is why i stand correct.

• Reject Wikistar's edits
  • Darkwarriorblake 23:54, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Nemu 23:58, 25 June 2006 (UTC) None of them are needed.
  • Daishokaioshin 00:08, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Papacha 00:14, 26 June 2006 (UTC) Reasoning below. Only endorse PE #3 using this transformation guide
  • Onikage725 00:24, 26 June 2006 (UTC) As per any number of discussions above. I think we're all tired of beating a dead horse.

Discussion

Discussion resulting from the survey go here.

Since he will not do it, here are User:Wiki-star's (And, Wiki-star claims, other contributor's as well) proposed edits from the post above. Wiki-star seems to believe that other editors proposed these edits along with him. I have added the previous comment to hopefully stop him from changing my post. Sadly, he has changed this post many times, so do take care in reading it to see if he has changed it again. However, because Orion Minor has been and still is showing a tremendous amount of ignorance, the comment stays Wiki-star 02:47, 26 June 2006 (UTC) (Orion Minor 00:35, 26 June 2006 (UTC))

• • PE #1: Allow Super Buu w/Gohan the title for Buu's strongest form
  • PE #2: Allow Super Buu w/Gohan the title for "least evil" Super Buu
  • PE #3: Allow External Links to be visible for other resourcing
  • PE #4: Delete the Budokai 2 informations
  • PE #5: Comine the Uub sections, into a new, more Concise section
  • PE #6: Add any more known facts about each of Buu's forms and transformations
  • PE #7: Remove each of Buu's transformations under each Video Game title, to save space and irrelivance
  • PE #8: Allow the Image Capacity to exceed the recommended limit
  • PE #9: Custamize any Section Title, Section to better gramar or more suitable for the article

• Wiki-star: Yes, my way was more complicated. But it wasn't illegal. According that Straw Poll link you posted, it is quite acceptable. I really don't know whats your problem! Wiki-star 23:52, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
• Darkwarriorblake: Complicated? Illegal? It isn't acceptable because there is consensus. There is consensus because apart from Wikistar, no-one changes the pages format or drastically alters anything anymore, it is almost a flawless source for any information on Majin Buu. Wikistars actions directly contradict the consensus and so are illegal and also undo hard work done by several others.Darkwarriorblake 00:06, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
  • User:Wiki-star was reffering to his custom poll system being allowed under Wikipedia: straw polls when he said "illegal."
• Wiki-star: Say what you want! But unless you all follow the above Resolution, i will not stop doing what i do. This was an agreement made by myself, and Nemu. None of you are involved in this agreement. And even if all of you disagree with me (which i know will happen), unless you follow the above Resolution, you might as well stop participating. You're helping knowone but me! Wiki-star 00:09, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
  • It would appear that Nemu has opted to use the straw poll. --Orion Minor 00:13, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
• Wiki-star: Good! Thats even more ammunition i need to continue my task to get this article in tip top shape! Keep signing your names under the Reject option my fellow contributors. Keep helping me! Wiki-star 00:14, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
  • What you should be doing now is making an effort to convince people otherwise by making a summary of your edits, not complaining. I would really like your statements to be at least heard. --Orion Minor 00:17, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
• I meant to use this kind of poll. This is perfectly fine. The agreement was to list your edits and people would vote on them. If you win, they are added. If you loose, you stop adding them. Nemu 00:18, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
• Wiki-star: Exactly! But we also agreed to set up the formation. Which was exactly what i was doing, until these folks interrupted me. Oh well, no harm done! Wiki-star 00:20, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Except you ignored and deleted against Nemu's wishes of a yay/nay discussion by going with this long-winded & somewhat asinine concept of yours. Papacha 00:25, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Save yourself the time Wiki-star. You said in your version no change could be enacted unless everyone could agree. Considering that everyone not named Dragon Emperor has gone on the record in this talk page multiple times as not wanting these edits, and has supllied reason upon reason as to why, the destiny of your vote is just neutral anyway. Onikage725 00:24, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

• Dragon Emperor was recently banned. I'm not sure if he can edit again yet. I should note that most of his edits have been reverted due to lacking...aspects. I had to put one of his pages up for deletion. It was actually removed via speedy deletion, which is not the easiest thing for an article to get. The article did violate a number of Wikipedia policies, and was generally a nonsensical collection of information. For that reason, I have not contacted him for the poll. --Orion Minor 00:29, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

• Reject; per oh-so-many reasons gone over ad nauseam on both discussion pages. And the words you're looking for are "superfluous", "needless", "pointless" or "uncalled for" when chattin' it up on the video game fusions, not "obsolete", which is "out of date". They're all concurrent with Dragon Ball Z: Budokai 2 to my best recollection. v_v Papacha 00:26, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

  I *am* cool with adding this transformation guide as an external link, just to throw a bone to positivity in the discussion. Oy. Papacha 00:37, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

• Comment You're making our case right now, Wiki-star. The moment every user agrees to hold to a sensible wikipedia process that you, you, and you alone don't like, you flip out and begin declaring that our actions are pointless and we somehow place you in the right. You seem to be under the impression that Wikipedia was created for you, and you are entitled to behave however you want. Your single vote out weighs all of ours. Your opinions are right and ours are wrong. Sorry pal, but that isn't how this works. Ship up or ship out. If you want to impress upon that world that Super Buu 3 was a nice guy, by all means feel free. Go take a course on HTML, buy some webspace, and make a site of your own. Onikage725 00:35, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
• It would appear Wiki-star never bothered to read the part above: "Extended commentary should be placed below, in the section marked "Discussion", though brief commentary can be interspersed."--Orion Minor 00:51, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
• Wiki-star: No, because according to the original agreement, Participants must respond using as much logic and evidence as possible. So whatever! Wiki-star 00:55, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
  • No one here is held by an agreement made by you and another user, especially when he no longer seems to be following it. --Orion Minor 00:57, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Here is a piece left in my comments about him editing my statements: "And i as Wiki-star will continue to add it, until you fix your ignorance! Thank you. Wiki-star 00:59, 26 June 2006 (UTC)" --Orion Minor 01:01, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

• I did not agree to anything you said up there. Also, you are trying to make it in your favor with the evidence thing. You won't take anyone elses views, so you would be the winner. Nemu 01:03, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Are you talking to me or User:Wiki-star?(Nevermind, it is now clear he was talking to User:Wiki-star)--Orion Minor 01:05, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
• Wiki-star: How am i taking things in my view by saying add evidence? By saying that Nemu, you may have just won me this voting process! This tells me that you folks lack evidence, and that you're all voting Reject because you want me to never edit ever again! Oh lord, i've never seen such evil. Wiki-star 01:07, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
• Wiki-star: So you like to play games huh Orion Minor? I told you that i will not stop until justice is served. But heres my piece about your comments: Wiki-star seems to believe that other editors proposed these edits along with him. This truly supports my saying that you are too ignorant Orion! Man, this Voting is really fun and exciting! Wiki-star 01:11, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Wait, so you lose the vote and berate the voters and this "wins" the voting process for you? Onikage725 01:36, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
  • This is not a game to me. I am not out to win. I simply want the article to be as good as possible, just like you. However, we do not agree about what makes it better. Thus, we are having a poll. I do not enjoy going around Wikipedia and asking for input from voters and having to protect my comments. --Orion Minor 01:13, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
• Wiki-star: This isn't about your "evidence" or "facts". It's about the good of the article. It shows that you're the only one that agrees with your edits. I'm guessing you never would have stopped even if you hadn't refused to accept the result Nemu 01:17, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
• Wiki-star: It's not that you folks are voting Reject that's making me almost entirely non-negotiable, it's the fact that you all don't follow rules! As a result, whatever i've been saying is more logical that whatever you all have been saying combined! Which is why it is so difficult to reach me. I've tried a truce, but so many people treat me like a piece a crap, it's almost unbearable. Wiki-star 01:22, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
  • I have pleaded with you to get your voice out and contribute to the discussion, only for you to edit my posts and create rules. Please, calm down and understand that you, as evidenced by the vote, are in the minority and that your actions, as evidenced by your bans from outside administrators, are becoming improper.--Orion Minor 01:27, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
• You have not tried to to reach an agreement. All you say is "I'm right. End of story." Show where you have tried to reason. Nemu 01:25, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
• Wiki-star: Hmmmm.... lets see now. Where do i begin? Oh i Know! If you scroll up, you'll see that i tried within the Original Resolution. Keep Scrolling up, and i also tried in the "Buu Future" section. If you also scroll up, you'll realize that i tried my very best, and Dai insulted and treated me like a piece of shit. If you also click back on the last Talk Page, you'll realize that people just never wanted anything with me. Which is why i took the liberty to do the right thing regardful of what anyone thinks! Wiki-star 01:41, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
• That isn't reasoning. You basically said "Hey guys, we should stop all this pointless fighting. Just agree with me and we'll be fine." Nemu 01:36, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Once again, a comment removed from within my post: "However, because Orion Minor has been and still is showing a tremendous amount of ignorance, the comment stays. Wiki-star 01:29, 26 June 2006 (UTC)" --Orion Minor 01:34, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

• Wiki-star: Once again, a comment removed from within my post: "Sadly, he has changed this post three times, so do take care in reading it to see if he has changed it again." Keep it up Orion, this is fun!!! Wiki-star 01:39, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
  • • • It would appear that he now claims that post as his own. --Orion Minor 01:44, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

I guess we just wait until he gets himself banned. Nemu 01:43, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

• Wiki-star: Actually yes Orion! I did correct your mis-interpreted and assumed information, within my post! Thank you very much!!!

So, Wiki-star, even though you lost the vote and you agreed to stop adding those points, you're going to keep adding them if the page become unprotected? Nemu 01:53, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

• Wiki-star: I'm not worried one bit, because i have far from lost this vote. I'm am very much alive! And a good day to you too my good sir! Wiki-star 01:58, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

No, you lost the vote that you agreed to. You have no chance to win. Are you just going to ignore it and go on with your business? Nemu 02:03, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

• Wiki-star: I've explained myself enough, welcome to my ignore list! Wiki-star 02:06, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

• Comment: Heh heh, this went about as well as to be expected. Any other EVIL~!! DBZers in our audience who knew this wouldn't work? Show of hands? Papacha 02:19, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

• Wiki-star: Please do not delete my posts without providing a valid reason, as that will only add more fuel to my allready raging fire! Thank You Wiki-star 02:13, 26 June 2006 (UTC) added by HawkerTyphoon 02:18, 26 June 2006 (UTC) after removal

Everyone stop, seriously, this isn't a debate its just a waste of time and the 5th or 6th massive arguement between those I'd consider upholders of the consensus and Wikistar. It goes nowhere and fast, leave it to admins now to read this and see that Wikistar is beyond reasoning.Darkwarriorblake 02:18, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

I guess I had too much faith in Wiki-star being even a little bit rational. This is pretty big. Someone should archive it and start the page out fresh. Nemu 02:24, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

• Wiki-star: I wouldn't say beyond reasoning, just so commited to wikipedia's article, that it's difficult to influence the perception onto him. Wiki-star 02:25, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Why are you speaking in third person? You have no support, but you continue. How is that not stubborn? Nemu 02:30, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

• Wiki-star: Me speaking in third person is none of your buisness. What is of your business is coming to a compromise for such a beautiful article! Wiki-star 02:34, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

This is the problem, you say you're trying to compromise, but all you do is ignore everybody's arguments while parading your own as if they're what everybody wants. You have not tried to compromise, you pretend to. Nemu 02:36, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

• Wiki-star: Oh yes i have! Whether or not you saw it, i really don't care! I'm tired of explaining myself, and don't forget you're apart of my ignor list! This is gonna make it almost impossible to talk to me. As long as i know that i did, thats really all that matters! But thanks for the concern! Wiki-star 02:40, 26 June 2006 (UTC)