Talk:Malcolm Sargent

Malcolm Sargent has been listed as one of the Music good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
May 18, 2007	WikiProject A-class review	Not approved
June 5, 2007	Good article nominee	Not listed
July 10, 2007	Good article nominee	Listed
June 28, 2009	Good article reassessment	Kept
Current status: Good article

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External links modified[edit]

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External links modified (January 2018)[edit]

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Private life.[edit]

Under the section private life is the following on Sargent's wife Eileen Horne: "Sargent's biographers differ on her background. Aldous states that she was a maid in domestic service, whereas Reid notes that she was a keen rider, with many friends in hunting circles, and that her uncle (who officiated at her wedding to Sargent) was rector of Drinkstone, Suffolk".
From the Ancestry web site we can find that in the 1911 census Eileen Horne, aged 12 is living with her parents Frederick aged 44, Alice aged 42 and sister Beryl aged 13 at Beyton Grange, Beyton, near Bury St Edmunds. Frederick describes himself as miller, coal merchant, carter and farmer. Beyton Grange had 11 rooms and there were three live in staff, a butler, a cook and a housemaid. This is hardly the family of a maid in domestic service.
Frederick died in 1940 leaving £956 17s and was living at The Mill House, Beyton, which is next door to Beyton Grange where he was in 1911. Incidentally Frederick was born in Drinkstone and educated at Charterhouse as was his brother Francis Herbert Horne who was rector of Drinkstone from 1913 to 1938. All this suggests that Reid's version is correct, or at least that Aldous's in not.--Welkinridge (talk) 18:30, 5 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

User:Tim riley, would you please comment? -- Ssilvers (talk) 20:11, 5 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I always felt Aldous had some agenda or other. He is reliable, I think, as to facts, but he puts some very strange spin on many of them. An innocent reader could come away from his book believing that Boult was a monster, that Sargent founded the London Philharmonic with some minor help from Beecham, that Barbirolli was a worldly money-grubber, and many other wilful distortions. Aldous also plays that disgusting journalistic trick of saying that such-and-such an unpleasant assertion has been made about so-and-so, but he has found no evidence to support it—thus leaving the reader with the feeling that there’s no smoke without fire. In short, I agree with Welkinridge, and I'm glad this exchange will remain on the record here for anyone interested to see. I don't think we should materially change the text of the article, though. The wording we use, correctly reproduced above, is wholly factual – x says abc, y says def – and it would be wrong to put our own interpretation in the text. We might perhaps go as far as to change "Aldous states" to "Aldous suggests", but no further, I'd say. What do Welkinridge and Ssilvers think? Tim riley talk 13:46, 6 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Later: there is what seems to me a perceptive and fair-minded review of Aldous's book here, which makes the same point I make above about the founding of the LPO and Aldous's misinterpretation of facts. Tim riley talk 14:14, 6 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't feel that I could change the article at all and that's why I put my comments on the talk page. This is an article about Malcolm Sargent after all and not about his wife and doesn't justify a long explanation in the main article. In a few years time the 1921 census will be published which should show the status of Eileen just before her marriage which may clarify things a bit. Personally I think the text should stay the same, after all Aldous did state, even if he was wrong.--Welkinridge (talk) 18:33, 7 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, Welkinridge. As soon as the 1921 census is published, or if a Biography is published that discusses Eileen more definitively, we can regroup. -- Ssilvers (talk) 19:31, 7 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I have replaced "More casual encounters" with "Less savoury encounters". The woman was clearly pleading NOT to have to have any kind of sex with Sargent. --Hugh7 (talk) 00:28, 2 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Elgar Violin Concerto[edit]

The New York appearances on Toscanini's invitation seem, at least partially, to have been recorded and a selection appears on CD. It reveals that-presumably to comply with radio time limits, Menuhin and Sargent were happy to play the Elgar Violin Concerto in an abbreviated form omitting the cadenza.Delahays (talk) 14:47, 8 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

.User:Delahays, are you suggesting a change to the article? -- Ssilvers (talk) 15:19, 30 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

It seems to me to that it might be considered to reflect on at least one aspect of the professionalism of both artists, (not to mention the attitudes of NBC - any such cut would be out of the question now, and rare even then)and the disc (which is currently on sale) itself is certainly firm evidence. I would not object to its inclusion. But a former colleague, a bass-trombonist who'd played in Harty's Halle and was then with the BBC , who once played for Sargent at short notice in a work with which he was unfamiliar ,and discovered the programme only on arrival immmediately before the concert (" I don't know this. Who's carving?" "Flash" "I'd better go and see him, then") found that for every entry he was exactly cued and had no difficulty whatsoever,and that Sargent could not have been more considerate. There are many other similar stories of Sargent's professionalism. Delahays (talk) 06:18, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Again, what change, if any, are you suggesting that we make to the article, exactly, and what WP:Reliable sources should we cite for such changes? See WP:V and WP:BALASP. -- Ssilvers (talk) 15:34, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]