This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.
Renamed and moved sections
I have just renamed and moved sections as per Wikipedia:WikiProject Indian cities, so if you think you see a major change, it is just a shuffling around of sections. Nothing to be alarmed of.--PremKudvaTalk 11:10, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
Please note that there is no Tulu film industry worth talking about in Mangalore. There are no film studios, noteworthy producers of state or national claim operating in the city. An occasional movie comes more out of grit than out of an "industry", just like the very occasional Konkani movie. Not worth a mention especially in the lead as mentioned by El_C.--PremKudvaTalk 04:00, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
I was the one to add that sentence. Not in the lead in but surely 1 or 2 sentences can be added in the Culture section since it is unique to Mangalore. But the lead in has only 180 words. But the Indian City Lead In says it should be approx. 300 words. ---- Kensplanet (talk) 07:41, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
Wikipedia:WikiProject Indian cities a guideline, and asks for min of two medium sized paras for the lead in, of approximately 300 words. So it doesn't matter. For that matter there is no sports section in Mangalore at all. Regarding Tulu Film Industry, why don't you create a new entry and put a link in Mangalore/Culture? I am sure you will be able to have a medium sized entry on it. 30 movies in 30 years.--PremKudvaTalk 09:59, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
Mayor
The term of the Mangalore City Corporation ended last year. Elections were held and the BJP has come to power. But the new council has yet to take charge, until such time the DC is in charge of the city's affairs. This is why I had belated removed the name of the last mayor (it should have been removed as soon as her term was over last year,) but Kensplanet has unknowingly added it back. I am removing it.--PremKudvaTalk 04:00, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
O I am extremely sorry. Actually while designing the table, I thought I had cut the Vijaya Arun from the infobox instead of copying it. That's why I had reinserted it. Actually I forgot I had written it myself in the table. It was unintentionally and unknowingly. ----->>>>> Kensplanet (talk) 07:35, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
The council was supposed to formed last month end (about 4 months after the elections were held!!!) and nothing has happened as yet. So no council and not mayor so far.--PremKudvaTalk 10:00, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
Adding an Image for Cuisine
The Cuisine section looks very empty. Can we have a Image there. The Image (http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Neer_Dosa.jpg) shows a Neer Dosa, a unique dish of Mangalore. Please tell me whether can we have it there or no. The Image is free from Flickr, or else it's absolutely not possible uploading it. If not Neer Dosa, can we have a Beebe or Cashew upkari image from here http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Cashew-upkari.jpg These images are free and I have uploaded it on WikiMedia Commons. ========Kensplanet (talk) 19:12, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
I have added a much better image of neer dosa. Take a look at the section and let me know what you think. Gnanapiti (talk) 20:27, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
Is Mangalooru a kannada or a Tulu name?
I feel there is some misconception that Mangalooru is a kananda name. The very fact that it is derived is from Mangaladevi Temple, even by tulu it would be called as Mangalooru only. The Mangala & Ooru are the same in kannada & tulu.
--Crazysoul (talk) 09:07, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
You are right, but in Tulu we call Mangalore Kudla only. In reference to Kodialbail possibly one of Mangalore larger villages then.--PremKudvaTalk 09:26, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
But branding mangalooru as purely a kannada name is not right. There are several tuluvas who refer Mangalore as Mangalooru even while talking tulu. Even i'm one of them. People who rever Mangaladevi are still proud to call it as mangloor. --Crazysoul (talk) 10:12, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
Your point is?--PremKudvaTalk 03:32, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
Gokarnatha Temple
This is the wiki page for Gokarnanatheshwara Temple as requested by Kensplanet. But do not place the temple image you had placed here on that page. It is not a good quality image of the temple. In fact the temple is in the background, what is in the foreground is the temple tank with a statue of Shiva. I would prefer if you had an image that showed the front view of the temple during day time, or a tripod steadied night image.--PremKudvaTalk 04:19, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
No problem..I'll try to search more free images from Flickr?
Can we count Images from Blogs as free Images.---------->>>>>>>>Kensplanet (talk) 05:44, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
Not unless the blogger has specifically waived the copyright, if not we have no right to use it. Unless the blogger concerned lets you use it for any purpose.--PremKudvaTalk 10:59, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
External links
Note to editors, just delete external links that don't concern the article. No explanation required.--PremKudvaTalk 03:59, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
Better Images
It would be nice if someone could upload pics of Pumpwell circle or Bunsts hostel circle instead of Nanthoor cross pic which looks very shabby. I would also suggest deletion of autorickshaw image as there is nothing sepcial about a Mangalorean auto.
--Crazysoul (talk) 08:45, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
Pumpwell circle or Bunts hostel circle will look as shabby as Nantoor cross. Though after the NH17-NH48 connection work is over the same Nantoor Cross photo will look quite different with a 6 lane highway and a flyover connecting it to NH 48. What I have posted is the before photo;-)--PremKudvaTalk 03:52, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
I suggest replacing the St. Aloyscius Chapel with the St.Aloyscius Church Image. Absoluteluy no problem with the Image. The Image is good. But it's good if we go on putting new new images and updating.========Kensplanet (talk) 15:42, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
St Aloysius Chapel------------------------------------------------------------------------------------>>>>>>> ::St Aloysius Church
I have replaced it. Thanks.--PremKudvaTalk 03:28, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
I am happy to say that Rediff news has posted a set of three images from the Mangalore entry on to their article on Mangalore Mangalore: The new real estate boom town, it also appears on pages 3 and 6 of the 6 page article.--PremKudvaTalk 06:02, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
I checked it. I'm happy too,---Kensplanet (talk) 08:54, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
Reassesment of Article
I think this Article needs to be reassesed. It no longer looks like a B-Class article. Each and every section has adequate data. Mangalore has just a population of 0.6 million. I think we have provided enough details on the city.--->>>Kensplanet (talk) 11:25, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
I have given this article for reassesement. Let's see what do we get. Check in here for the details Requesting_an_assessment...........Kensplanet (talk) 16:24, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
A request has been made for this article to be peer reviewed to receive a broader perspective on how it may be improved. Please make any edits you see fit to improve the quality of this article.-->>Kensplanet (talk) 09:49, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
All editors, please participate in all the peer review discussions-->>>Kensplanet (talk) 09:49, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
Sultan's Battery
While battery may be pronounced as buthery by the locals, it actually means Artillery battery.--PremKudvaTalk 11:15, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
So, how will that improve the article?-->>>Kensplanet (talk) 14:56, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
Who said anything about article improvement?--PremKudvaTalk 05:43, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
Some sections
Where do we put the mentioned details below :
Mangalore Police
Courts
Mobile services
Mangalore Fire Brigade--->>>Kensplanet (talk) 15:01, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
I have checked them. We can accomplish this by renaming the Govt and Politic section to Civic administration and the Power and Water Supplty to Utility Service. Once done Mangalore Police, Fire Brigade, and courts can go in Civic administration and mobile services can go in Utility services.-->>>Kensplanet (talk) 07:49, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
I have currently renamed it-->>>Kensplanet (talk) 07:55, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
Ah okay. That's good.--PremKudvaTalk 10:54, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
There is nothing like Mangalore Police. The police force is known as Dakshina Kannada District Police --Crazysoul (talk) 12:54, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
The DK police is not headed by a Commissioner. It is headed by SP (Superintendent of Police). Police Comisionarates are currently only in Bangalore, Hubli-Dharwad and Mysore for Karnataka. However there is a proposal to set up a Police commissionerate in Mangalore which is yet to be accomplished. The main criteria for setting up a police commissionerate is that the city should have a population of more than 10 lakhs. --Crazysoul (talk) 19:01, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
I have recently added these two templates in the See Also section. These Templates may not be accurate. For example, some localities mentioned in the Template came not fall under Mangalore City limits. Editors who have a good knowledge of the city are kindly requested to edit and remove unnecessary localities.-->>Kensplanet (talk) 16:37, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
The image in the infobox should probably show an image of the subject. The current image is pretty, but not doesn't show Mangalore, just the ocean.
The History section should be expanded or rationalized. Currently it is dominated by how foreigners found the city and very little weight is given to the city's development over the ages. Currently, there is only one sentence about the city's history since 1800.
Try to find some more authoritative sources. For example, travel agencies are not the best sources for climatic data, but weatherbase is used in several FAs. --maclean 18:53, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
Overall it is quite an extensive article and here's what i think needs to be done.
What is kadali fruit? Plese enclose the English name within brackets as well.
What does 'loral past' mean? Please simplify the language for ease of understanding.
Few sentences seem to have been directly copied from [[1]], yet there is no reference to this page.
History merely states a few travelers who discovered the city. An account of gradual development of the city would be better. A few sentences on what happens after 1800 are required. You could view featured articles like Kolkata for guidance.
"...makes it feel above ..." in Geography and climate section is a vague statement,not exactly factual.
Needs references in economy section.
Many sentences like "tiles made from red clay and baked, is used as roof" have wrong syntax. It should be "tiles.....are used..." in this case.
You could link PCPIR to Nayachar which defines PCPIR.
"During this tremendous growth phase, these banks spawned a whole generation of bankers from Mangalore across these firms from the top to bottom". - What does it mean?
Comments by Editors of the Page
Some comments:
The image in the infobox should probably show an image of the subject. The current image is pretty, but not doesn't show Mangalore, just the ocean.
The History section should be expanded or rationalized. Currently it is dominated by how foreigners found the city and very little weight is given to the city's development over the ages. Currently, there is only one sentence about the city's history since 1800.
Done.
Replace the current Image in the infobox with an Image which shows details on the subject.
Expand the History section so that it includes development over the ages.
Both these have been added to the To-do list for Mangalore. Soon, the editors of this page will do the necessary modifications.______Kensplanet (talk) 13:15, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
Try to find some more authoritative sources. For example, travel agencies are not the best sources for climatic data, but weatherbase is used in several FAs. --maclean 18:53, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
Done, All figures for climatic data taken from Weatherbase.
Overall it is quite an extensive article and here's what i think needs to be done.
What is kadali fruit? Plese enclose the English name within brackets as well.
Done. The word Kadali fruit means Banana-->>Kensplanet (talk) 17:17, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
Old Sentence: This region, given away as a reward to sage Parashurama by Samudraraja, is well-known for its Kadali fruits.
New Sentence: This region, given away as a reward to sage Parashurama by Samudraraja, is well-known for its Kadali fruits (Bananas).======Kensplanet (talk) 13:23, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
What does 'loral past' mean? Please simplify the language for ease of understanding.
Done. The language has been simplified tremendously.
Old Sentence: It is the land of enchantment of Sahyadri mountains, where the great sages Kanva, Vysa, Vashista, Vishwamitra and other in the Loral past spent their days of meditation.
New Sentence: It is the land of enchantment of Sahyadri mountains, where the great sages Kanva, Vysa, Vashista, Vishwamitra and others spent their days of meditation.--Kensplanet (talk) 13:32, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
Few sentences seem to have been directly copied from [[2]], yet there is no reference to this page.
No. I don't think so. They have copied from Wikipedia. If you check properly, the site mentions Some pages may contain portions of text relating to certain topics obtained from wikipedia.org under the GNU FDL license--Kensplanet (talk) 17:22, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
History merely states a few travelers who discovered the city. An account of gradual development of the city would be better. A few sentences on what happens after 1800 are required. You could view featured articles like Kolkata for guidance.
Done.
Replace the current Image in the infobox with an Image which shows details on the subject.
Expand the History section so that it includes development over the ages.
Both these have been added to the To-do list for Mangalore. Soon, the editors of this page will do the necessary modifications.______Kensplanet (talk) 13:34, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
"...makes it feel above ..." in Geography and climate section is a vague statement,not exactly factual.
Done. It has been corrected. The corrected sentence is much more factual.
Old Sentence: However, a high relative humidity of more than 90% makes it feel above 40 °C (104 °F).
New Sentence: However, temperatures may rise up to 40 °C (104 °F) due to the high relative humidity of more than 90%.----->>>>>>>>>>Kensplanet (talk) 13:23, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
Needs references in economy section.
Done. A to-do has been added for the economy section
Add more references in the Economy Section. Delete trivia from this section. Facts which cannot be proved must be deleted immediately.
Soon the editors of the page will fix this.--->>>Kensplanet (talk) 13:40, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
Many sentences like "tiles made from red clay and baked, is used as roof" have wrong syntax. It should be "tiles.....are used..." in this case.
Done. All such sentences have been removed.
You could link PCPIR to Nayachar which defines PCPIR.
Done. The below sentence has been added in the Economy section.
"During this tremendous growth phase, these banks spawned a whole generation of bankers from Mangalore across these firms from the top to bottom". - What does it mean?
Done. This sentence has been deleted since it doesn't add any encyclopedic value to the article.------Kensplanet (talk) 13:47, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
This article has been drastically improved and meets most of the standards of Wikipedia. A peer review is required on this article. All are requested to participate.-->>Kensplanet (talk) 07:13, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
I have gone thru the article:-
The economy para has lots of nonsense. plz remove nonsense. write a economy in mangalore article and put all details there. here keep only key details.....write only a single para
similarly for civic admin
put lang & rel in demography and merge cuisine with culture
transport is too big . plz reduce. write a whole section without subdiivisions/ only key points. write a article transport in mlr and put all details thereWpinman (talk) 14:22, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
Comments by Editors
I have gone thru the article:-
The economy para has lots of nonsense. plz remove nonsense. write a economy in mangalore article and put all details there. here keep only key details.....write only a single para
Done. Economy section reduced. Main article has been put up there.-------Kensplanet (talk) 14:27, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
similarly for civic admin
-Done. Trivia from this section deleted.-------Kensplanet (talk) 14:27, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
put lang & rel in demography and merge cuisine with culture
Comment. No, Language and Religion cannot be put under Demographics. Demographics is reserves for only those points for which numbers (figures) can be provided. But Cuisine will be merged with Culture.-------Kensplanet (talk) 14:55, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
transport is too big . plz reduce. write a whole section without subdiivisions/ only key points. write a article transport in mlr and put all details there
Done. Innecessary info deleted-------Kensplanet (talk) 14:27, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
Is the Mangalore City Corporation the best skyline Image. The world doesn't know Mangalore for its Corporation building. That Image is very much required in the Civic Administration section. This is the famous Netravati Railway Bridge Image. The Netravati Bridge is quite will known.====Kensplanet (talk) 14:20, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
Bangalore article has vidhana soudha as its main pic. MCC building of Mangalore can be a similar pic for infobox. I think this would be the least controversial image for this position. There is nothing unique about Netravati river bridge. Hundreds of railway bridges across India have identical bridges. What's ur opinion?
--Crazysoul (talk) 16:47, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
vidhana soudha image looks good, while the MCC building doesn't.--PremKudvaTalk 05:16, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
Well, if some body can get its complete front view, it may be posted. The complete view is really good. --Crazysoul (talk) 06:09, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
There is nothing unique about Netravati river bridge. Hundreds of railway bridges across India have identical bridges. What's ur opinion?
OK Quite convinced. That image doesn'nt deseve a Lead In. But that image deserves a place in the Transport section since it is a railway bridge. The MCC HQ is fine but the autos, people, roads shouldn't be there. THE GA reviewer will surely comment on that.-Kensplanet (talk) 08:18, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
This photo doesn't do any justice to the Nethravathi river rail bridge, it almost a kilometre long and that is not reflected in it. But until you get a better photo place it in the transport section if you wish.--PremKudvaTalk 09:45, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
I have currently added Town hall Image as the skyline. The MCC Image doesn't look so good and it is most required in the civic administration section, not the skyline. Had to make quick edits since this is a GA nominee. The Town Hall Image looks good and quite clear.Cheers.Kensplanet (talk) 16:24, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
I noticed the image replacement today. Considering that the Town Hall is in the heart of the city and very well recognised I agree with your judgement. I also noticed that you and KNM have been quite busy the whole of yesterday on the article. Thanks for both of you for taking your time off to improve this article.--PremKudvaTalk 11:25, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
MCF image caption
History: i checked other articles..we are only supposed to make a general comment on industrialization and not mention any industries
Kensplanet, regarding your above comment in your edit summary, you have nameed the Kudremukh plant in its image caption when you inserted it. If industry names are not to be mentioned then only one image may suffice for the page I think. Also you mention Mangalore witnessed an economic and industrial boom during the late nineteenth century in that caption. You meant 20th century possibly? Since during the late 19th century there was nothing much here.--PremKudvaTalk 10:30, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
That's because the Kudremukh Image falls under the Economy section. Industries have relevance with Economy. But if u name that image Mangalore Petrochemical aand refineries, u are mentioning about industries in the History section. Industries have no relevance with History.-->>Kensplanet (talk) 12:01, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
It is Mangalore Chemicals and Fertilisers. I don't see why an industry name has no relevance in the history of a city. Especially since MCF was the first major industry that came up in Mangalore in 80s.--PremKudvaTalk 04:04, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
Communal riots
Communal riots have taken place even in 1992 ( ayodhya crisis) and even before that. Why do u need to give special importance to what happened in 2006. The city is still secular. Why do u want to malign the city for this particular incident? You should also not forget that the district police had brought the situation under control very quickly. Death toll didn't even reach double digits. If it was Mumbai, police would have watched the fun helplessly. Bangalore article doesn't talk anything about its communal or regional clashes. Why do u want only Mangalore article to host this info? And moreover is it an event worth to be recorded in history? Clashes between communities would have happened since centuries. --Crazysoul (talk) 18:23, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
I agree to your view. Mentioning the '06 communal riots gives an impression that Mangalore is prone to regular rioting by religious fanatics. It is not so. In Mangalore proper I remember the '92 and later the '06 riots only. The '92 riots took place along with all the cities in India and wasn't something that happened only here.
As you mention overall it is a very peaceful place. Compare that to Bangalore where a Raj Kumar kidnap and later his death by natural causes brought the city to a complete standstill. If you have to mention riots you will have to make a study and mention each and every riot that have taken place, including the student riots.--PremKudvaTalk 04:00, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
I also remember that there was communal tension in Mangalore in 1999, due to which our university exams were reschduled. Bangalore had also seen clashes between Kannadigas & Tamilians whenever Kaveri issue gathered steam. But nothing has been mentioned about that in Bangalore article. --Crazysoul (talk) 04:45, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
As an independent editor, I just noticed the above discussion. I hope you don't mind my thoughts here. If the Bangalore article doesn't mention rioting/clashes within it, let it be so. If you wish that this article reach the highest standards (read FA), then the editors have to ensure comprehensiveness to the article. Though communal clashes are common, there are occasions where the reason for the clashes might be politically instigated/some other notable reasons. Doesn't missing out on these facts because it is going to malign the city constitute your point of view? :) I hope my comments are taken in the right spirit. Cheers! Mspraveen (talk) 05:24, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
Praveen, I do understand. What crazysoul and I am trying to say is that basically Mangalore is not a communally sensitive place where the police have to impose sec 144 every time there is something silly like a India-Pak match.
So mentioning that the "The city's secular fabric was torn apart" (which actually is what is mentioned in the Mumbai article for their riots of 92-93 where hundreds were killed) is extreme. When fabrics are torn apart they are not easily put together. Whereas today or actually soon after the 2006 riot, things got back to normal very fast. If at all a mention is required, it should say that the city has a very strong social fabric with just two riots in 16 years.
The Mumbai riots where followed by the bomb blasts where three hundred people were killed. As a person resident in Mangalore, and who sees what happens daily, I feel that it is still a peaceful place. Also using statements like "city's secular fabric was torn apart" is not a NPOV. It is exactly what a female journo for NDTV used, saying "Mangalore's secular credential has been torn apart forever". Forever?!--PremKudvaTalk 05:50, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
No comments except that it was removed for good.---Kensplanet (talk) 07:17, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
To-do list for Mangalore:
Kensplanet good show on completing the To-do list for Mangalore peer review.--PremKudvaTalk 10:02, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
Nice to see that article is nominated for GA now. Good job! - KNMTalk 15:28, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
Mangaluru, Mangalooru or Mangalūru
Mangaluru: Later in 1526 AD, the Portuguese took possession of Mangalore, thus corrupting the word Mangaluru to its present form Mangalore.
Mangalooru: Among Kannada newspapers Udayavani, Vijaya Karnataka, Prajavani, Kannada Prabha and Varthabharathi are popular. Evening newspapers such as Karavali Ale, Mangalooru Mitra, Sanjevani and Jayakirana are published in the city.
Which is th most accurate-- Mangaluru, Mangalooru or Mangalūru. The reader will surely get confused.
I suggest we should go for Mangaluru throughout the article.=======Kensplanet (talk) 07:29, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
I do not think reader will get confused with these names, because all these names are valid and used interchangeably. However, to be consistent over the entire article, Mangalūru would be the best word. - KNMTalk 15:24, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
I agree with KNM that looks like most accurate.--PremKudvaTalk 04:16, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
GA Review
The article is in very good shape, and very close to meeting the Good Article criteria. The prose is excellent, and it is relatively easy to read. It is well referenced. The lead is good. A few minor issues:
The image in the 'etymology' section (Image:Mangaladevi.jpg) does not have an image copyright tag. It needs one.
The order of some sections could be revised a bit, to de-emphasize some and emphasize others. Change 'civic administration' to 'government' and 'utility services' to 'infrastructure'. Put 'government' right before 'education' and 'infrastructure' right after 'transportation' (or combine infrastructure & transportation). Demographics and Culture should be emphasized over government & infrastructure in the order of importance.
Other than that, I think the article is very good, and it can be promoted once these issues are addressed. I've placed the article on hold until this happens. Cheers! Dr. Cash (talk) 16:11, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
Crazysoul can you update the Mangaladevi.jpg image with an image copyright. I notice you are the uploader.--PremKudvaTalk 04:29, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
Crazysoul I had added an {{attribution}} tag to your image. For now. Change to something more suitable when you come online.--PremKudvaTalk 05:31, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
It's been a week since the article was put on hold. I hope Dr. Cash is not taking a very long wikibreak.KensplanetTalkE-mailContributions 13:26, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
Article meets the GA criteria. It will be listed. Good work! Dr. Cash (talk) 17:46, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
Well, so glad to see that this article made it at the GAN. My best wishes and congratulations to all those who made it possible! Cheers! Mspraveen (talk) 14:18, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
Congratulations everyone, especially Ken for the initiative he took to list the article for review at GA criteria and then working towards achieving the GA status.--PremKudvaTalk 04:33, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
Name change Mangalooru withheld!
I removed the sentence in the article that said that However, this name change has not been implemented due to opposition from Mangaloreans across the world. The reference provided also doesn't indicate that the name change has been withheld due to this reason. The name change of Mangalore and also the other cities has not taken place due to the Karnataka Govt not following certain procedures. Later after the Kumaraswamy Govt fell, the state under Presidents rule has not followed up. In all probabilities names of all the cities mentioned by the Govt be changed after a new Govt is formed. Unless there is a change of priorities from the new Govt.--PremKudvaTalk 06:17, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
I am sure the article would like to achieve FA status. Anything which occurs in the Lead has to reappear in the prose according to the rule of thumb. That's why, these sentences
Konkanis use the variant Kodial. The Bearys call it Maikala. Kannadigas use the variant Mangaluru for the city. In addition, the city is also known as Mangalapuram in Malayalam. have been readded.
Its basically a FA criterion. The article's status will be challenged by reviwers if anything in the Lead is not covered up in the Prose. Hope this explains why the sentences have been readded.KensplanetTalkE-mailContributions 13:58, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
My suggestion is that magaluru is not a variant. It is an official name in kannada. Others can be can be called as variants coz it doenst have any official status. And i dont think malayalam name is necessary. Then u need to add everything what tamilians, telugus, gujjus, or hindi people call it. --Crazysoul (talk) 03:59, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
I have implemented your suggestions. If you check Mangaluru has just been called a name not a variant. Malayalam name has been removed.KensplanetTalkE-mailContributions 07:23, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
Red links
What's the purpose of adding red links when the corresponding articles are not existing? --Crazysoul (talk) 04:28, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
The article should be extremely comprehensive if it wants to attain FA status. That's why articles such as Treaty of Mangalore, Sultan Battery (Mangalore) and some crucial topics related to the city need to be created. You can help by adding more red links and creating articles.KensplanetTalkE-mailContributions 07:26, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
But some of the items that have been red marked cannot be expanded to an artcile. e.g. DK telecom District, corporation bank park, etc --Crazysoul (talk) 09:17, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
If sufficient number of editors are interested I don't see why not.--PremKudvaTalk 07:12, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
Civic administration
I've seen several edits & reverts on the title of this section. It is not right to use the word government for the governing body of a city. The city is not run by the government, but a council. Almost all articles of various Indian cities use the title "Civic Administration" for this section. In India, the term "Government" can be used only for Delhi as it has its own legislative assembly. --Crazysoul (talk) 17:05, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
A script has been used to generate a semi-automated review of the article for issues relating to grammar and house style; it can be found on the automated peer review page for June 2008.
This peer review discussion has been closed.
I've listed this article for peer review because this article is already a GA. Suggestions to promote this article to FA status will be very much helpful.
Ruhrfisch comments: I think this is quite an interesting article and it seems to have a great deal of information in it. I think it needs some MOS clean up and a good copyedit to reach FA level. Here are some suggestions for improvement:
The lead should be an accessible and inviting overview of the whole article. My rule of thumb is to include every header in the lead in some way, but Etymology and Climate do not seem to be in the lead, as two examples.
I also think the lead could be four paragraphs - please see WP:LEAD
Per WP:MOS#Images, images should be set at thumb so reader preferences for width takes over. Vertical images can be smaller with "upright"
Some of the sources may not meet WP:RS - what makes www.inida9.com (Ref 19) a reliable source, for example?
Refs are also not consistent - Internet refs need URL, title, author if known, publisher and date accessed. {{cite web}} and other cite templates may be helpful. See WP:CITE and WP:V
Provide context for the reader - just in the lead I had to click on Western Ghats to understand what they were, but it were "Western Ghats mountains" or perhaps mountain range, that would be clearer. See WP:PCR
Spell out numbers ten and less, so New Mangalore Port is India's 9th [ninth] largest cargo handling port[,] handling 75% of India’s coffee exports and the bulk of its cashew nuts.[5] Also is there a way to avoid handling twice in the same sentence?
Another awkward sentence - what does "by Mangalore standards" add? Does Mangalore have different standards for temperature and humidity compared to the rest of the world? The most pleasant months in Mangalore are from December to February – during which time the humidity and temperature are the lowest by Mangalore standards.[36]
For help with a copy edit ask one of the volunteers at WP:PRV or one of the editors listed at WP:LOCE
Please use my examples as just that - these are not an exhaustive list and if one example is given, please check to make sure there are not other occurrences of the same problem.
Hope this helps. If my comments are useful, please consider peer reviewing an article, especially one at Wikipedia:Peer review/backlog (which is how I found this article). Yours, Ruhrfisch><>°° 16:55, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
We will try to emulate the style of all FA's as far as possible.
The lead should be an accessible and inviting overview of the whole article. My rule of thumb is to include every header in the lead in some way, but Etymology and Climate do not seem to be in the lead, as two examples.
We are working hard to modify the Lead. We are trying to include details from each and every section.
I also think the lead could be four paragraphs - please see WP:LEAD
Per WP:MOS#Images, images should be set at thumb so reader preferences for width takes over. Vertical images can be smaller with "upright"
Done. All Images set at thumb.
Some of the sources may not meet WP:RS - what makes www.inida9.com (Ref 19) a reliable source, for example?
(Ref 19) removed since it fails to meet WP:RS. Additionally, all such refs which fail to meet WP:RS and WP:V removed
Refs are also not consistent - Internet refs need URL, title, author if known, publisher and date accessed. {{cite web}} and other cite templates may be helpful. See WP:CITE and WP:V
We are working to make Refs consistent. It may take some time.
Provide context for the reader - just in the lead I had to click on Western Ghats to understand what they were, but it were "Western Ghats mountains" or perhaps mountain range, that would be clearer. See WP:PCR
We are working to provide context to each and every such term which may be unknown to many people. It may take some time.
Spell out numbers ten and less, so New Mangalore Port is India's 9th [ninth] largest cargo handling port[,] handling 75% of India’s coffee exports and the bulk of its cashew nuts.[5] Also is there a way to avoid handling twice in the same sentence?
Done Old Sentence: New Mangalore Port is India's 9th largest cargo handling port, handling 75% of India’s coffee exports and the bulk of its cashew nuts. New Sentence: New Mangalore Port is India's ninth largest cargo handling port. It handles 75% of India’s coffee exports and the bulk of its cashew nuts.
Another awkward sentence - what does "by Mangalore standards" add? Does Mangalore have different standards for temperature and humidity compared to the rest of the world? The most pleasant months in Mangalore are from December to February – during which time the humidity and temperature are the lowest by Mangalore standards.[36]
"by Mangalore standards" removed. Old Sentence: The most pleasant months in Mangalore are from December to February – during which time the humidity and temperature are the lowest by Mangalore standards. New Sentence: The most pleasant months in Mangalore are from December to February – during which time the humidity and temperature are the lowest.
For help with a copy edit ask one of the volunteers at WP:PRV or one of the editors listed at WP:LOCE
Surely, we will contact them once the article is ready for a FAC. Till then, we'll try to improve the article in our own ways.
Please use my examples as just that - these are not an exhaustive list and if one example is given, please check to make sure there are not other occurrences of the same problem.
We'll try to resolve all such issues.
Hope this helps. If my comments are useful, please consider peer reviewing an article, especially one at {{Wikipedia:Peer review/backlog}} (which is how I found this article).
Please explain your edits 122.167.59.203--->>>Kensplanet (talk) 07:21, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
Wrong. It is very much a language of Mangalore. Heck our district is called Dakshina Kannada. Mr Anon should change that too then.--PremKudvaTalk 11:44, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
I too agree with premkudva. Except for the migrants, there is not a single localite who doesnt know Kannada. --Crazysoul (talk) 15:06, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
References
There are many unreliable sites which may fail to meet WP:RS and WP:V. I am removing all of them. So please do not bother about my edits regarding references. Regards, Kensplanet (talk) 08:22, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
Lead
It has been brought to notice in the peer Review that the Lead is not concise enough. It fails to include some data from each and every section. If you think you can put some good information in the Lead, then please do so. Regards, Kensplanet (talk) 08:22, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
Mangalooru Mallige
Can anyone put some details of Mangalore's jasmine popularly known as Mangalooru Mallige? --Crazysoul (talk) 17:45, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
What is Mangalooru Mallige?In which section does this go.Kensplanet (talk) 18:26, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
Mangalorru is a variety of jasmine flower which is aavailable only in Mangalore. They are thinner in structure and more fragrant compared to Mysore jasmine.It can be put either under economy or geography--Crazysoul (talk) 09:24, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
Featured Article Status!!!
Well, I think this Article is ready for a FAC. This Article incorporates enough data on the city. If the editors have any suggestions, any more data then now is the time to put it. Please let me know what you all think?Kensplanet (talk) 12:12, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
I agree. Article certainly looks ready for FAC. Time to give it a try, and see what the reviewers say. We can work on the issues, if any, found during the review. - KNMTalk 20:04, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
I have contacted some copyeditors. They are currently working on the article. We can nominate once their work is over. KensplanetTalkE-mailContributions, 04:46, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
I am trying to clean up the prose but have a few questions about some content that I am not able to understand. I will list my questions below, to hopefully get a better sense of what the intention of the sentence is. Thanks AreJay (talk) 01:20, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
In Geography, it says "The topography of the city ranges from plain to undulating, with four hilly regions natural valleys.." is something missing here? four hilly regions <filler text> natural valleys. I can't quite understand the sentence.
New sentence :The topography of the city ranges from plain to undulating, with several hills, valleys and flat areas within the city.--PremKudvaTalk 07:05, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
The maximum average humidity recorded should be as of a very specific date, not a general month.
Well, Average clearly contradicts mention of a vey specific date. During the past 30-40 years, humidity data was recorded for all the months. And then Average was taken for all the months. It was then observed that The maximum average humidity recorded was 93% in the month of July and average minimum humidity recorded was 56% in the month of January. How does specific fit here. KensplanetTalkE-mailContributions 08:52, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
You're right. Maximum ave humidity of a month will suffice.AreJay (talk) 22:37, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
In the Economy section, "It handles 75% of India’s coffee exports and the bulk of its cashew nuts."....please clarify what "it" is.
"Imports include tropical timber from South-East Asia for furniture making." If the word "include" is being used, more than one example is needed. Just "furniture making" won't suffice.
New sentence :Imports include tropical timber from South-East Asia for the manufacture of furniture and as raw material for the housing industry.--PremKudvaTalk 06:49, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
What I meant here was it says "Imports include tropical timber". But no other examples of imports has been mentioned. If we use the word "include", there needs to be more than 1 example. This sentence would read better if it were reworded as "Tropical timber is imported from SE Asia for....".AreJay (talk) 22:37, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
Oops!:-) Setting that right.--PremKudvaTalk 04:04, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
Done Added other items of import.--PremKudvaTalk 04:24, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
"The city is also one of the chief entry points for wood to South India" This sentence needs clarification. Entry points as in import perhaps?
New sentence :The city along with Tuticorin is also one of two points for import of wood to South India.--PremKudvaTalk 06:49, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
"This will be the first Petroleum, Chemicals, Petrochemicals Investment Region (PCPIR) of the country, with similar PCPIR's existing at Nayachar in West Bengal, Panipat in Haryana and Achutapuram in Andhra Pradesh." This sentence contradicts itself.
Deleted sentence since cited source and further search show it contradicts as mentioned.--PremKudvaTalk 07:05, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
"According to an International edition of India Today (28 November – 4 December 2006), Mangalore is the fastest growing non metro in South India followed by Kochi." Why is Kochi's mention important if we're trying to say Mangalore is the fastest growing non-metro. Kochi shouldn't be mentioned unless we're trying to say that Mangalore is the second-fastest growing non-metro in S. India, after Kochi.
I have restored the sentence and modified it to exclude Kochi. There's no need to remove the sentence since it is backed by a reputed periodical. KensplanetTalkE-mailContributions 13:46, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
I think the bit about strategic oil reserves and the details provided about it are not in line with WP:SUMMARY.
Deleted extra information.--PremKudvaTalk 07:17, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
"Growing numbers of slums have been a cause of concern in Mangalore." Concern to whom?
Deleted sentence, sentence that follows this is adequate enough.--PremKudvaTalk 07:08, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
Two intro sentences in "Culture" about the museum and hi-tech library don't align well with each other and give the para a choppy feel. I would either add a small phrase introducing the discussion of the museum and library, and tie the two together in the same sentence, or just not include them, if they are going to remain two disparate thoughts. Same issue with Yakshagana.
I've played around with the prose a little bit, more from a grammar and style standpoint. I'll give myself a day and revisit it to get rid of the choppiness. If anyone wants to take a crack at it in the interim, please feel free.AreJay (talk) 22:37, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
Prose cleanup II
Thanks AreJay I am going through these points [see Prose cleanup I] as well as some of the other editors here.--PremKudvaTalk 06:31, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
Thanks, Premkudva. I'll go ahead and continue to add some points below that I haven't been able to address myself (for lack of content knowledge or otherwise).
"Popular festivals in the city include Dussera, Diwali, Christmas, Maha Shivratri, Easter, Navratri, Good Friday, Eid, Moharram, and Mahavir Jayanti" - list is too long, as is usually the case with India articles. This should be shortened to 3-4 festivals, taking into account the diverse religions of Mangalore.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but happalas and sandiges (at least as used in Kannada) are not pickles as indicated in the "Culture" section. If I had to define them, I would call them fried flatbreds or fried wafers.
Happala is no pickle as you mention, I do not know what a sandige is?--PremKudvaTalk 04:28, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
There should be some more info on mainstream sports If I remember correctly, isn't Prakash Padukone from the Konkani community...not sure if he is Mangalorean though. What about Mangalore's contributions to state and national hockey, cricket, soccer and other sports? Wasn't Ravi Shastri born and/or brought up in Mangalore?
Mr Padukone was born in Bangalore and Ravi Shastri in Bombay as per wiki. All Mangloreans went to banking rather than sports it looks like;-)--PremKudvaTalk 04:24, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
Education and sports are unrelated topics. Sports should be moved to the culture section, or be an independent section, if there's enough content
Moving Sports to Culture is not a good idea, since the Culture section already has enough details and appending sports there would make the section unnecessarily lenghty. We'll try to find more data. Just give us 2-3 days. KensplanetTalkE-mailContributions 13:59, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
"These institutions attract students from all over the country due to the quality of their programs"....WP:PEACOCK? Citation needed, if available.
Done: Removed this sentence. Finding citations for such sentences is next to impossible. KensplanetTalkE-mailContributions 15:11, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
"In addition, the city has also contributed towards the Konkani Film Industry." Contributed how?
In "Civic Administration", the mayor of Mangalore should be mentioned.
Done Removed Deputy Mayor from Infobox as he/she is mentioned in Civic Administration section. Added a Table, mentioning Mayor and Deputy Mayor. KensplanetTalkE-mailContributions 14:04, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
"The Telecom Density in the city is 8.74 per 100 population" The term "telecom density" should be defined so that it is understandable to the average reader. Thanks AreJay (talk) 21:04, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
Well, Telephone density and Telecom density mean the same. Anyway, for the average reader, Telecom density has been replaced by telephone density. KensplanetTalkE-mailContributions 15:08, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
Thanks! The article is looking much better now. I still have some concerns, but the prose issue has all but gone for me. I will update the FAC with the improvements in prose, and add my additional concerns there. Let me know if you have any questions...great job addressing FAC concerns so far. Thanks AreJay (talk) 21:45, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
Image of Mangalore country side
I have added a image in .../wiki/Mangalore#Geography_and_climate section please review it.
NAvin Shetty Brahmavar 17:20, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
Was this image taken within Mangalore, ie at Kadri, near Kulshekar, or some of the areas where paddy fields are still cultivated? Do inform the place name here.--PremKudvaTalk 06:29, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
He had mentioned Mangalore District. It can also mean South Canara district. That has to be cleared. If the paddy fields belong to SC district, then the image has to be removed from this article. We have to stick to Mangalore city only. KensplanetTalkE-mailContributions 07:22, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
It was captured near Puttur (South Canara Dist). - NAvin Shetty Brahmavar 14:21, 8 August 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Navin Shetty Brahmavar (talk • contribs)
We are removing this image from the Mangalore article, please place it in the Puttur article instead.--PremKudvaTalk 05:03, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
Image of NITK
I think NITK image would be a more suitable candidate for the Education section. Even the name is clearly visible in front. Whereas the KPT image doesn't even have a signboard. Moreover Infosys is prominently visible in the background. One might have to mark & show which one is KPT for the newbies. I suggest replacing KPT image with NITK image. --Crazysoul (talk) 12:38, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
O Sorry, actually I was about to replace the Image the same day when you informed me. I was just a bit lazy to dig in the history. Anyway I have reinstalled it. Thanks, Kensplanet (talk) 14:23, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
Featured article candidate
Mangalore is currently a FAC. (Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Mangalore). Please help the article to promote it to FA status. Thanks, Kensplanet (talk) 15:45, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
I noticed the efforts here and thought a map might be a useful addition. I have attempted a rough version here and perhaps it can be improved by those with better knowledge or sources. Image:Mangalore.svg, this is made on the basis of several sources on the net and I believe my creation should qualify for release under public domain. Shyamal (talk) 16:54, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
Congratulations! Mangalore is now a featured article:-)--PremKudvaTalk 11:03, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
Congrats. Everyone. Kensplanet (talk) 09:19, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
Congrats everyone.. especially kensplanet for all the efforts that he had putforth --Crazysoul (talk) 18:01, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
Order of names
Tulu, Konkani, Beary, Kannada is the right order. Kannada, Tulu, Konkani, Beary is not the right order. It should be strictly according to the no of native speakers of a language. As far as official languages go, all official things have to be mentioned in the Infobox. If you check, the official language has been mentioned Kannada in the Infobox.
For the Rest of the article (including the first line), we have to follow the native speakers order. No Govt. of K'taka or Mangalore City Corp owns this page.
Best example is the Troy article. Although Troy is officially in Turkey and the official language of Troy is Turkish, but people belonging to the Greek ethnic group are the largest and hence Greek has been mentioned first. There are many such articles. The native speaker order is the right order KensplanetTalkContributions 08:59, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
please no WP:OR and WP:OWN In Wikipedia articles, scripts should in alphabetical order, not based on total no of speakers. beary should not be used, because they are very less in number. for example see Kashmir, there are six scripts in total, all of them are in alphabetical order and not based on total number of speakers, if you have any problem call an admin whom you like, let this issue solved by an admin. this article is related to india, show Indian cities as an examples not foreign city. 59.96.45.189 (talk) 10:10, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
The Naming conventions for all cities are the same - Indian or any foreign city. Please give me the statistics of Mangalore. Muslims constitute around 15% of the city. Please not the statistics of South Canara. Most of them are Bearis. Around 14% maybe. You call 14% less. Then, Beary should be first. Mentioning Kannada first looks af if Most Mangaloreans are Kannadigas, then Tuluvas etc......which is absolutely incorrect and totally unencyclopedic. As far as official languages go, it has been mentioned in the Infobox. Only the Infobox is supposed to have all official area stats, STD codes, population etc...KensplanetTalkContributions 15:29, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
Please don't throw back the question. can you show me the statistics of tulu, konkani, kannada, beary speakers with WP:RS (not in %, display in numbers) . Kannadiga Warrior (talk) 01:36, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
and also note that, it is possible to remove konkani translaion, because they are migrates not natives. 59.96.45.189 (talk) 10:17, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
Please tell me how do you define natives. Mangalorean Catholics and other GSB's have been here since 1500's. They have built churches and other significant institutions in the city. No explanation needed for that. 500 years - more than enough to be called locals. No need to mention only Kannadigas are considered migrants today. Though I do not consider myself as a Mangalorean, but only a Bombayite, there's no denying that I have Mangalorean Catholic descent and I am a Mangalorean through my descent KensplanetTalkContributions 15:33, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
No need to mention only Kannadigas are considered migrants today ;Please correct your sentence, Kannadigas are not migrants they are part of Mangalore(Karnataka). They are staying in mangalore from the day of city born. They have built churches and other significant institutions in the city ;Yes,they built churches and institutions for missionary activities. Kannadiga Warrior (talk) 01:46, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
No need to correct. It's absolutely right. What nonsense is this?? your assumptions and baseless statements don't work here. Mr.Kensplanet, do have any proof to say Kannadigas are migrants? Talk pages are highly visible content, if some mangaloorean see your baseless comment, he will start laughing at you.Kannadiga Warrior (talk) 00:59, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
This is sounding like a forum now. I guarantee you my freind, no one will laugh at me KensplanetTalkContributions 12:28, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
Ok, Kannadigas migrated from where??? Tamilnadu? andhra? or maharashtra? ANSWER ME. Kannadiga Warrior (talk) 12:30, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
They migrated from inland karnataka, thats from beyond the western ghats. Thats why these people are 'Ghattamithudkulu'locally.Probably you too can trace your origin to some place in inland karnataka Kannadiga Warrior
I refuse to entertain this forumish discussion anymore. Because along with you, I'll be blocked too..KensplanetTalkContributions 11:32, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
this is not forumish discussion, i just asked sources for what you said. Kannadiga Warrior (talk) 12:55, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
That's what I'm saying Talk pages are highly visible content. So stop this discussion which takes the Poll nowhere. KensplanetTalkContributions 11:34, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
Except for the migrants, there is no single localite who doesn't know Kannada. as above statement mentioned it is very clear that kannada speakers are more. 59.96.45.189 (talk) 10:25, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
We refer to only native tongues. That way English rules for all purposes much above Kannada. KensplanetTalkContributions 15:37, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
Kensplanet said No Govt. of K'taka or Mangalore City Corp owns this page. adding, neither you nor me owning this article. PS:For more than 2 years Kannada script is placed before Tulu script, now how can User:Kensplanet change the order without gaining consensus? is he owning this article? Kannadiga Warrior (talk) 12:46, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
Wikipedia is based on consensus. There is nothing to comment in Order of names because in some articles scripts are arranged in alphabetical order and in some other articles first preference is given to native scripts as mention by User:Kensplanet. so i decided to start a poll on this issue, lets see what other wikiusers agrees. Kannadiga Warrior (talk) 12:14, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
That's for sure. You do not know anything about Mangalore. I'll answer all your posts. May we have some Mangaloreans like User:Crazysoul, User:Premkudva commenting KensplanetTalkContributions 15:29, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
Don't assume things over here. I know Mangalore better than you, i am a resident of Mangalore, come to Kankanadi i will show you whom am i. Kannadiga Warrior (talk) 01:29, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
Sorry, but by your silly posts, it doesn't look like you know about Mangalore and it's Culture more than me. No need to meet people like you. I have better thngs to do and better people to meet. Anyway, are you the Mayor of Mangalore. :)KensplanetTalkContributions 05:15, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
Sorry, but by your silly posts case of WP:NPA. silly???? who is doing silly here, me?? hello Mr.Kensplanet this silly thread is started by you not me. it doesn't look like you know about Mangalore and it's Culture more than me you said that Kannadigas are migrants, its enough to show you don't know nothing about mangalore. Just because you've written this FA article, it doesn't mean that you know everything about mangalore. you've collected information from many sources and wrote this article. lol, anyone can do this. No need to meet people like you. I have better thngs to do and better people to meet. Sorry, even I'm not interested in meeting you, i don't like the people who show hatred behaviour towards our community. are you the Mayor of Mangalore silly question by FA author. Kannadiga Warrior (talk) 02:02, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
I didn't call you silly. I called your posts silly. Please do not threaten me with WP:NPA. Watch it properly. No admin can block me for this. When did I say, I have written this FA. Please tell me and please do not assume. Many editor's contributions are involved here. Please check History. You are right I've collected information from many sources and wrote this article. But according to your outward bearing, it seems you are trying to say that Feauturing articles is a very easy task. No chum, it's not so easy. We had to break our bones for this. We had submitted the article at numerous Peer reviews, FAC's. We had requested many copyeditors for this. Not so easy. You try featuring an article yourself. KensplanetTalkContributions 11:46, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
A poll to determine the opinions. all are welcome, anyone can vote here by adding SUPPORT in below options (NOTE: Supports by IP's/socks/newly registered accounts are not considered).
The following is a closed discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
No consensus -> Option 1=3 Option 2=3
Option 1
No change in current order - Kannada, Tulu, Konkani, Beary
Change the order to - Tulu, Konkani, Beary, Kannada as per User:Kensplanet comments
Strongest Possible Support: I think the Order should be Tulu, Konkani, Beary, Kannada. KensplanetTalkContributions 15:59, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
Strongest Possible Support: Option 2. That is the way it should be. Tulu,Konkani,Beary,Kannada. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pdheeru (talk • contribs) 17:04, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
Strongest Possible Support: The order should be Tulu, Konkani, Beary, Kannada.SanfyTalk
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
Section break
Kenplsnet, I have right to end this poll because this poll is started by me. Kannadiga Warrior (talk) 12:27, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
This is violation of WP:OWN. After you submit your content on Wikipedia, it is officially accepted in the Public domain. While editing any page, read a bit below
If you don't want your writing to be edited mercilessly or redistributed for profit by others, do not submit it.
You have no right over the contents and the poll now. Polls will be closed later by a common understanding. KensplanetTalkContributions 12:31, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
My degree exams will starts from 18th of this month, my mother wont allow me to use internet from tomorrow, so i will not able to login for next couple of days. now tell me who will decide the result of this poll? Kannadiga Warrior (talk) 12:35, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
Your exam excuses don't give you any authority over the poll. Why don't you contact an admin. KensplanetTalkContributions 12:39, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
I don't know any admin here. bye,happy editing Kannadiga Warrior (talk) 12:43, 16 December 2008 (UTC) Kensplanet, if you wish can you please decide the result of this poll Kannadiga Warrior (talk) 12:45, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
The Order will be changed only after a consensus has been established. I promise you no one will change the order if it has not been established. KensplanetTalkContributions 11:50, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
Order of names II
Even though i'm a tuluva, i feel that official name of a city should be given the first place (i.e. Mangalore in English & Mangalooru in kannada). All other names are all unofficial & just orally used. There's no logic that the no. of native speakers should be considered for sorting the names. Do we really have any statistics to prove that the number of speakers are in the same order? As some one rightly pointed out, we are not sure whether bearys outnumber konkanis or vice versa. And what about the malayalis who are also significant in number. Whatever website u may refer to, they only provide estimated figures & not actual. Somebody has also pointed out above that every mangalorean knows kannada, but same cannot be told for other languages. --Crazysoul (talk) 16:22, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
Are U sure Mangalooru is the official name. Can U support it with a REF. It's not always necessary to give the official langauge primary status everywhere. Here's it's not the question of official languges. It's the question of order of local names of the city. Forget Konkani n Beary for a minute. That will be sorted later. But we all know that Tuluvas are in majority. Do you deny this. Shouldn't it come first then. There's no logic that the no. of native speakers should be considered for sorting the names. But mentioning Kannada, Tulu, KOnkani, Beary gives the impression that Kannadigas are in Majority, then Tuluvas, etc...This is wrong. KensplanetTalkContributions 17:28, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
But mentioning Kannada, Tulu, KOnkani, Beary gives the impression that Kannadigas are in Majority, then Tuluvas, etc...This is wrong. Then why User:Kensplanet didn't change the order year back ?. surprisingly he only noticed after this change.
Please read the policy mentioned in Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_(Indic). as per wikipolicy 'Mangaluru' should be mentioned first not Kudla, because The name ‘Mangalore’ is the anglicized version of kannada word ‘Mangaluru’ not tulu word 'Kudla'. hence Mangaluru should be placed first. There is no rule in Wikipedia that scripts should be sorted according to no. of speakers. Kannadiga Warrior (talk) 02:59, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
now, Follow the wikipolicy and close this discussion. Kannadiga Warrior (talk) 03:28, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
Please tell me which section is this in Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Indic). We do not care from where it is derived. What logic is this? Each and every word in this world is derived from some or the other word. Even the English language which you speak is derived from Greek and Latin. Most of the Indian languages are derived from Sanskrit. There is no rule in Wikipedia that scripts should be sorted according to no. of speakers, but it is always recommended to follow a order. Kannada, Tulu, Konkani, Beary has no order. Better to mention it as Kannada, Beary, Konkani, Tulu in the descending order. Atleast it has an order. KensplanetTalkContributions 04:19, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
if you can able to see through your own eyes ,please read Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_(Indic)#Policy. The word 'Mangalore' is anglicized name of Kannada word 'Mangaluru', not tulu word 'Kudla'. moreover, in city Mangalore, common usage word is MANGALURU not KUDLA. Kannadiga Warrior (talk) 02:21, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
Kannadiga Warrior, May I first request you to provide an online reliable source which mentions that Mangaluru is the official name of the city. It should specifically mention Mangaluru is the official name of the city. Please no assumptions like Because this is this, so that is thatKensplanetTalkContributions 06:27, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
first you provide the source which mentions tulu speakers are more in number. Kannadiga Warrior (talk) 02:29, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
This clearly proves Mangaluru may not be the official name of the city. If yes prove it. You are just wandering around the mulberry bush by throeing questions at me. Can't you even prove it now KensplanetTalkContributions 12:25, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
Dear Kensplanet, It can be called height of ignoroance questioning the authenticity of the name Mangalooru in Kannada. All signboards, nameplates, shops, banks, postal dept, corporation, etc, use Mangalooru & not Kudla/Kodial/Maikala. I dont understand why you are so much against the word mangalooru which is derived from mangaladevi temple which is very much in the same city. --Crazysoul (talk) 08:28, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
It not 'for or against' any name, we are discussing the order in which it has to be written.
It should be according to the no. of native speakers. kannada,Tulu,Konkani,Beary does not have any logic. Neither in ascending order or descending order. More over Kannada has been mentioned as official language in the infobox. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.30.93.135 (talk) 16:28, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
Crazysoul, my freind who's questioning the authenticity of the name Mangalooru in Kannada. We respect the name from the bottom of the heart since it is an ancestral and a local name of Mangalore. No one is against Mangalooru. No one wants to remove it. It's just that we would like some sort of order.
For a foreign reader, this doesn't indicate that Kannada is the official language of Mangalore and Mangaluru is the official name. If you want, we can mention it in the Lead itself that Mangaluru is the official name and Kannada is the official language. Only when the reader reads the Infobox, shall he know Kannada is the official language. It would just mean that People belonging to the Kannada ethnic group are the largest. If you want, we can follow the alphabetical order Beary, Kannada, Konkani, Tulu as suggested by Kannadiga Warrior or the Native speaker order. But surely Kannada, Tulu, Konkani, Beary has no order at all.KensplanetTalkContributions 16:36, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
The debate is not about official language. It is about the official name. Why do u want to hide the official name at last? It should come first. And who told that the names should be in the decreasing order of native speakers & not the name popularity or usage? Whether you like to hear it or not, you can't deny the fact that Mangalooru is a popular name 7 extensively used. Even buses plying in this area bear the name mangalooru. It doesnt imply that other languages are minorities. If you are so much keen on indicating the no. of speakers, u may put it at the demography section. Lets not be so jingoistic about unofficial names sidelining the original name. --Crazysoul (talk) 17:21, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
By far the most extensively used name is Kudla, No doubt. all buses mention mangaluru on the boards is only because they are using the official language. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.98.28.90 (talk) 17:46, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
Mr IP, don't make your own assumptions here, a simple WHOIS test shows you are from saudi. how can you say KUDLA is more common?. the fact is MANGALURU is the most common usage word. Kannadiga Warrior (talk) 02:35, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
Yes ur right, I am currently in Saudi, and that does not stop me from making a comment here. Does it?
since Tulu is mostly spoken in Mangalore,Kudla is naturally the most used word. mangaluru may be used only in documents that too Kannada documents. Kannada is used in this part only cos its the official lang of Karnataka. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.30.60.228 (talk) 16:23, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
Perhaps our dear Kannada freind doesn't know, there's a huge Mangalorean diaspora scattered across the gulf. KensplanetTalkContributions 17:44, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
New Proposal of changing order
TULU, KANNADA, KONKANI, BEARY If you all agree with my new order, let us move on it. but i strongly disagree the order TULU,KONKANI,BEARY,KANNADA. Kannadiga Warrior (talk) 02:46, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
Disagree - This is an entirely futile and useless exercise, retain the current order, Mangalore after all belongs to Karnataka. Kannada is the language spoken by all Mangloreans, whereas Tulu, Konkani and Beary are not spoken by all Mangloreans. Don't spoil this article with a language war, after having taken so much trouble to bring it to FA status.--PremKudvaTalk 05:19, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
Sorry, i didn't start the language war . I would like to congratulate Kensplanet,Premkudwa,Crazysoul for your tireless work in bringing this article to FA status. and also I kindly request to User:Kensplanet to close this discussion, because it leads to language war. Kannadiga Warrior (talk) 11:23, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
I know, but I thought I make my thoughts clear. Positions of the names in a particular order is not going to change the essence of the article in anyway. Best is to leave it the way it was.--PremKudvaTalk 11:01, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
Mangaluru may not be the official name of the city
Mangaluru is not the official name of the city. If it is, prove it. Just because Kannada is the official language of Mangalore, so Mangaluru gets more importance over other names. For example, in the Mangalore City Corporation website, Mangaluru Mahanagarpalike is mentioned. So for other purposes. Can anyone prove it is the official name. KensplanetTalkContributions 12:17, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
Kensplanet are you wanting to know if the official name is Mangaluru in Kannada or English? Because in Kannada it has been Mangaluru for the last several hundred years or more.--PremKudvaTalk 06:10, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
Similarly can you prove Mangaluru is the official name of Mangalore.
It is really childish to ask anyone to prove that mangalooru is the official name. I really doubt whether you have lived in Mangalore. Anyone would laugh at this question --Crazysoul (talk) 15:12, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
Crazysoul technically we are stilled called Mangalore in English and Mangaluru in Kannada, even though the names of a dozen cities were proposed to be changed to their Kannada sounds it has not been carried out yet. Bangalore is now being called Bengaluru but it seems the official stuff that requires the name change fell somewhere when two state Govts fell. But Google Earth, Google Maps calls Mangalore as Mangaluru.--PremKudvaTalk 06:10, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
Crazysoul, I have never ever lived in Mangalore...I am from Bombay. I am only of Mangalorean genealogy...But however from your posts that's for sure, you have still not been able to provide an online REF claiming Mangaluru is the official name. KensplanetTalkContributions 11:27, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
Google maps and Google Earth are similar to Wikipedia. Anyone can edit it. Especially Wikimapia. KensplanetTalkContributions 08:01, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
Dear Premkudva, I'm not claiming that Mangaluru is the official name in English. I mentioned that Mangaluru is the offcial name in Kannada.Is there any doubt in that? All land records,official documents, history refer to this city as Mangaluru(in kannada) and not by any other name. Its easy to give weblinks as reference for the cities whose names have been renamed recently. But Mangalore has been known by its name since centuries. And the debate is being carried out in a tangential way as if there is no connection between Mangalore & mangalooru. Dear kensplanet, What according to you is official name in Kannada? If u say Kudla i beg to differ. Except for oral conversations in Tulu, this word doesnt have a standing while conversing in other local languages as well. You have even downplayed that argument that Mangalore city corporation website shows mangalooru mahanagarapalike just bcoz kannada is official language... If Kudla was the official name, it cud have been named Kudla mahanagarapalike. Can u tell me any one official or commercial establishent which uses the word Kudla? Is it possible for you to give links to prove that bengaluru is the official name of the Bangalore in kannada (remember not english) or Mumbai is the official name in marathi (not english) or dilli is the official name in hindi. or Mysooru is the official name in kannada(not english). If you can provide them, we'll explore similar source for mangalooru as welll. --Crazysoul (talk) 14:59, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
That's what I'm trying to say. You cannot prove Mangaluru is the official name. It just gets more importance because Kannada is the official language. The order of names need not be according to official languages. The order of names is decided on cultural aspects. I have already given an example: Troy; it's in Turkey; still Greek and Latin have been given more importance. On some articles like Kashmir, it's on alphabetical order. Wikipedia doesn't suggest any order. I suggest the native speaker order. We'll see the poll consensus KensplanetTalkContributions 17:39, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
Yes I agree with Kensplanet. The order of names should be decided by no. of native speakers. Just because Mangaluru is used in official documents(that too only Kannada Documents)we cannot ignore Kudla. We have to take the sentiments of Tuluvas (majority ethnic group)into consideration. The word Mangaluru is attached with Mangalore only b'cos Kannada is the official language of the state. We should follow the example of Troy article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.96.43.62 (talk) 16:19, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
You are right. Someone agrees. May I suggest creation of an account so that you can vote and your posts may gain more value. KensplanetTalkContributions 17:39, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
But u r ignoring the fact that mangalooru is more popular than Kudla.. Is popularity an ignorable factor? And i do not understand how placing kudla in the begining would be an indicator of taking majority into consideration. You are unnecessarily creating a language war here.... It also seems that anonyous edits are your own..... If u read the belgaum article, belagavu is written first even though marathi is a majority there.. --Crazysoul (talk) 17:42, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
This is a silly allegation against me which I prefer to respond in a silly manner. The next post from me will be using my IP and I am going to type I AM KENSPLANETKensplanetTalkContributions 06:48, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
No my freind. This discussion is just not worth it that I use My IP or Sockpuppet around. You can always submit a request at Wikipedia:Requests for checkuser if you think I am sockpuppeting or misusing my IPs. If I do so, I know I'll be blocked for atleast 2-3 weeks. Anyway, I am not so much attached to the discussion as I have already said I am not from Mangalore. It's just that I have Mangalorean Catholic descent. KensplanetTalkContributions 07:05, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
You have never analyzed why Mangaluru is more popular than Kudla. It's only because that Kannada is the official language. And the name of the city is Mangaluru in the official language. It's not right to suppress other names, culture, languages just because Mangaloreans had decided Kannada should be the official language of Mangalore. Even the popularity is limited to Mangalore. Foreigners do not know about Mangaluru. It's not about Majority. It's only about an order. Currently, the order is meaningless and random. Regarding Belgaum; we are not sure whether Marathis are in Majority. Its 50-50%. That's the reason Kannada can be mentioned first being the official language and also it's officially in Karnataka. But not for Mangalore. I have heard that Kannadigas only comprise 2.3% of Mangalore. Finally, it doesn't matter what you think or I think. Result will be declared on the Poll consensus. What the people feel....Mangaloreans as well as Non-Mangaloreans. The Discussion is not futile. Tell me how come there are 3 People supporting the Native speaker order then KensplanetTalkContributions 07:21, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
Again you are coming up with superficial figures. 2-3% Kannandigas? Whats ur source. And who told u that mangalooru is the word used by only kanadigas? And do u think only kannadigas visit Mangaladevi temple? Dont make your own assumptions. And regarding the Belgaum article, the article itself mentions that it has 75% marathis. And my reply was to your staement that Mangalooru may not be the official name in Kannada. And you haevnt yet replied what else is the official name in kannada. --Crazysoul (talk) 13:21, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
Yes, I agree that may be inaccurate and unofficial. But the statistics have to be somewhere near that. Mangaluru is not only used by Kannadigas. Mangaluru is used by everyone in this world to refer to the city in the Kannada language. I refer to the city as Mangalore in English, Kudla in Tulu, Kodial in Konkani, Mangaluru in Kannada, Maikala in Beary, Mangalapuram in Malayalam, Manjuran in Arabic, Maganoor in Greek, Nitre and Nithrias in Latin. If you read a few lines above, you'll find a statement above It's only because that Kannada is the official language. And the name of the city is Mangaluru in the official language.. So, I don't know when did I say Mangaluru is not the name of the city in Kannada. KensplanetTalkContributions 16:21, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
The Poll has been closed since no strong consensus was established. Thanks everyone for discussing.KensplanetTC 05:53, 27 December 2008 (UTC)
<ref name="mcc5">{{harvnb|Mangalore City Corporation|p=5|Ref=18}}</ref>
Someone has given the above harvnb reference in the Etymology section with three other occurances of this in the rest of the article. Exactly how are we supposed to check these references? The reference is clickable but gets you nowhere.--PremKudvaTalk 10:58, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
Isn't there anyway of indicating this in the reference? Without the article you mention above the reference is meaningless.--PremKudvaTalk 05:38, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
Repeating the same URL, Title, Publisher etc......again and again for individual references looks silly. In this case only the Page No. is different. Rest all parameters are the same. That's the reason, we have followed HARVNB Reference system, where only the Page number differs. KensplanetTalkContributions 06:45, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
Thanks Kensplanet. My problem was that clicking on the reference took me to the solid waste management document of the MCC on the article page. Which I thought was a wiki error. Now that you mention it that document had the details. Sorry for the bother.--PremKudvaTalk 07:09, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
Bother.....No, my freind, that's what a Talk page is supposed to be meant for. Keep Discussing. KensplanetTalkContributions 07:34, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
The article says Maikala. Personally I do not know. But some Beary's whom I spoke to here mentioned that Maikala actually means village or town [possibly our village our town?!]. But is commonly refered to as Mangalore.--PremKudvaTalk 05:34, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
Not Mangalore. Mangalorean. Like Mangalorean is known as Manglurvnavaru in Kannada. That way. KensplanetTalkContributions 06:34, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
Ah Manglorean is it, I will ask someone here and find out.--PremKudvaTalk 07:11, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
Thanks, I got it. It's Maikaaltanga. KensplanetTC 17:06, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
Skyline of Mangalore
I think we need to put a proper skyline of Mangalore rather than Town Hall pic there. There are many Town halls with the same architecture in a lot of places. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.96.108.178 (talk) 17:12, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
Mangalore Article should be protected. And Non Autoconfirmed user should not be allowed for editing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Navaneeth nayak (talk • contribs) 16:05, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
Moved to archives
I just moved last years conversations to the archives.--PremKudvaTalk 05:32, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
Largest city in TuluNadu
I agree with Deepak D'souza, that TuluNadu is not an administrative region, but we need to mention this fact somewhere in the article somewhere. We can decide on where it should be mentioned.188.54.84.236 (talk) 05:27, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
Added a statement of Mangalore being the largest town in Tulu Nadu.188.52.51.34 (talk) 08:37, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
Done. All Images set at thumb.
