Talk:Marie-Caroline of Bourbon-Two Sicilies, Duchess of Berry

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Title[edit]

Caroline was not a princess of "Naples and Sicily". Rather, she was a princess of the Kingdom of the Two Sicilies. BoBo (talk) 22:14, 9 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

yes she was, she was married in March/April 1816, almost a year before the kingdom of the Two Sicilies even existed. i moved it for this reason, for consistancy with other princesses of Naples and Sicily as well as the fact that she was only known as Caroline and not "Caroline Ferdinande Louise" LouisPhilippeCharles (talk) 10:30, 10 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The Kingdom of the Two Sicilies lasted until 1860. That means that for the vast majority of her life, Caroline Ferdinande was a princess of the Two Sicilies. No Kingdom of Naples and Sicily existed most of her adulthood. As a result, it appears logical to refer to her using the rank that she possessed by right of birth for the majority of her life. BoBo (talk) 13:18, 10 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 1 August 2018[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved as requested per the discussion below. Dekimasuよ! 00:08, 9 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Marie-Caroline de Bourbon-Sicile, duchesse de Berry → Marie-Caroline of Bourbon-Two Sicilies, Duchess of Berry – The current title includes French text, which seemingly infringes upon WP:UE. The page Marie Caroline of Naples and Sicily redirects to the Austrian Queen of Naples. She married in 1816, the year Naples and Sicily became the Two Sicilies, and her father was the King of the Two Sicilies. Generally trying to follow the manual of style. Conservatrix (talk) 12:32, 1 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Support – Conservatrix (talk) 12:41, 1 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Please note WP:RM#Nom. Dekimasuよ! 00:07, 9 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. Can't see any especial evidence that her name is commonly seen in an Anglicised form. WP:USEENGLISH and WP:UE certainly do not mean or say that we have to translate everything. Only that we should use the most common form (if there is one) in reliable English-language sources. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:17, 1 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Reputable sources using an Anglicized variant: [1] [2] [3] Conservatrix (talk) 13:40, 1 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

You should be suggesting one of these names, not one you've made up. Celia Homeford (talk) 14:06, 1 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

My proposed name is a compromise between the many variants. Wikipedia is undoubtedly an authority of common usage and we ought to choose a reasonable middle ground. Marie Caroline is featured heavily on French artwork, her given name, and her homeland is either Naples and Sicily by birth or Two Sicilies by her father. – Conservatrix (talk) 14:13, 1 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Opted to do a straight Anglicization from current title. The juggle between Naples and Sicily/Two Sicilies is too great a bother. – Conservatrix (talk) 13:32, 3 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. See Wikipedia:Article titles: names should be recognisable. If you look in the citations and in the library resources linked through the 'Authority control' template, there are no works using the suggested name. Celia Homeford (talk) 13:30, 1 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Her authority control, draw your own conclusions. I am content to name her 'of Naples and Sicily' or 'of the Two Sicilies.' – Conservatrix (talk) 14:05, 1 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Striking my oppose given the change to the proposed title. Celia Homeford (talk) 14:29, 6 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Name of Page[edit]

Shouldn’t she simply be “Princess Marie-Caroline of the Two Sicilies? Bourbon-Two Sicilies is the designation only used for members of the dynasty born after the end of the monarchy in 1860, and is also a courtesy title, whilst Marie’s was backed by the full force of law. And the use of her husband’s title for her Wikipedia page name is also strange as that pattern is not followed for the Wikipedia pages of her of her deceased mother-in-law Maria Theresa of her deceased aunt-in-law Marie Joséphine. CanadianPrince (talk) 04:07, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]