Talk:Martin Grossman

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Notability[edit]

Please dont delete this article, I will update it with citations. All information is accurate

It doesn't matter that it's accurate, it matter that the person in question isn't important. The article has been created and deleted in the past for the same reason. -Zeus-u|c 23:15, 16 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

This is very important it was one of top searches in google. More than 40,000 emails were sent to the governor. —Preceding ascg comment added by ascg (talk) 23:38, 16 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

This was a very high profile case and despite the execution being a done deed, you can expect more to come of it. KirkCliff2 (talk) 01:08, 17 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The quality of this article poor to say the least[edit]

It doesn't even have the murder victim's name spelled right. Her name was Peggy Park, not Peggy Parks. William 00:57, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

Rewriting it shouldn't be that hard. The information is pretty good and, from what I've seen, accurate. This is Wikipedia, we can all chip in and make it better in no time. 01:08, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
I did what I could to revise it. I even moved the title of it and wikified a lot, so quality's no longer an issue. References, I can give you plenty of those. Search Yahoo! News or Tampa-area TV Network affiliates' websites. They've been all over this.There's still a whole lot more that can be done and should be done because Martin Grossman does have significant notability —Preceding unsigned comment added by KirkCliff2 (talk • contribs) 02:09, 17 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The article has improved drastically in quality, and on second look appears like it might be notable, so for now I have withdrawn the speedy. -Zeus-u|c 02:35, 17 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

That's great. Still plenty of work that can be done, but I think it should start to pan itself out now that the major hurdles have been cleared. KirkCliff2 (talk) 02:45, 17 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks so what can I do to make this article better or to save it from deletion, he was a really notable person, and i believe he deserves this page.

I'm new at wikipedia- let me know what I can do thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ascg (talk • contribs) 05:09, 17 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

CAN ANYONE HELP? I worked really hard on this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ascg (talk • contribs) 05:21, 17 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  • To start, you need references. There are two templates that can help you. In the search box in the left column, just type cite news for citations obtained through news sources or cite web for citations obtained through the internet that are not news organizations. Copy and paste the necessary information into the template. One example from this article is in the Execution section. Another one is for the same citation throughout the article. Use the greater than and less than symbols surrounding this parameter: ref name=something /. There's a lot of work to be done. Have fun. Ed (talk) 14:04, 17 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I tried to edit the page, which I thought would enhance the information. I added Martin Grossman's parents names, I corrected the line about the clemency petition and I added a lot more external links (link to radio press conference with Rabbi Katz, and others, link to letter Martin Grossman wrote about Hanukkah on Death Row, link to letter about Martin by Rabbi Katz, direct link to on-line petition, link to documentary film in progress about Martin Grossman and his family and it keeps getting deleted. I'm new to wikipedia, but I don't understand. Nothing should violate copy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Docfilmmaker (talk • contribs) 16:43, 16 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Some websites (for example, petitionsonline.com) cannot be listed on Wikipedia. Your edit was reverted by an automatic "bot" that detected one or more such links. Rather than putting many changes into one edit, consider making each change a separate edit. That way, any inoffensive edits will not be reverted. WWGB (talk) 23:42, 16 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Overzealous flagging?[edit]

Somebody jumped the gun a little bit in the flags they put up. A.) Zeus already agreed that Notability has been established. B.) The article just got revised maybe 12 hours ago, so it's a work in progress C.) There's already two references up and I'm going to be adding a whole lot more in a little bit D.) The copy-editing is almost done with. E.) Of course there's recentism right now. He just got executed. F.) The references are third party from what I've seen. I could go on, but have some patience, people: these things take time and Wikipedia's a collaborative effort, so we're all pitching in to finish revising this article.

KirkCliff2 (talk) 14:24, 17 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The stats[edit]

I've seen a couple of different figures for the various appeals made to the governor (34,000-35,000 petitions, 40-50,000 calls, e-mails, etc.) and even the number of people executed in Florida since 1975 (68 or 69).
I wasn't the one who added the appeals stats, only the execution count, and I went by the first news report I saw, which said 69 (BBC claims 68, but they're not even from the U.S.).
Could someone try and verify the actual numbers from a good variety of sources and see if the article reflects them properly and correct if and where needed? Thanks. KirkCliff2 (talk) 17:45, 17 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Sisters[edit]

The first line says he is an only child, and the last line says that his two sisters visited him during execution. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.28.146.235 (talk) 19:16, 17 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It was the victim's sisters at the execution, not Grossman's. WWGB (talk) 22:53, 17 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Undue weight of religion in summary[edit]

Points important enough to be mentioned in the summary should be explored in the article. The killer's ethnicity played no part in his crime, execution or defense. Mentioning it in the first paragraph amounts to undue weight. It can certainly go in Early Life, if it is supported by a citation. Wrotesolid (talk) 03:40, 18 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

There was unprecedented support from international Jewry for Grossman's death sentence to be commuted. The actions of Elie Wiesel, Chief Rabbis of Israel and Rabbi Menachem Katz are already stated in the body of the article. Removing mention of this from the lead is overlooking a very significant reason for the notability of this subject. WWGB (talk) 05:14, 18 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
This rewrite is quite a bit better, it makes it much more relevant to the facts and less like the unduly weighted comment of an anti-semite. (One could still argue that the concern of religious authorities such as the Papacy was due primarily for grossman's age at the time of the murder, and their opposition to the death penalty in general, not due to his religion at the time of the murder.) Wrotesolid (talk) 05:04, 19 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

If this version is 'better' then I shudder to think of what it was like (and I'm too afraid to look, this is trigger enough). Where one paragraph, perhaps two, would suffice we are taken on a seemingly endless 'poor poor murderer, it really wasn't his fault'. Yet the religious angle is still quite prominent while the actual murder --you know, what he was executed for?-- appears glossed over; it was certainly given much less attention and indeed prominence over the 'important people' who defended this guy. Cherchez la Femme (talk) 17:00, 17 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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