Talk:Mary Poppins (film)/archive 1

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Music

Music is by Sherman & Sherman, about whom I could swear I created a page... but I can't find it -- Tarquin 09:04 Aug 30, 2002 (PDT)

It's listed under Sherman Brothers -- you might want to create a redirect page. --67.171.28.197 04:26, 3 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Creating links for minor characters

A couple of times now I have reverted edits by an anonymous user who wants to create links for individual minor characters within Mary Poppins, such as the maid, Ellen and Mrs. Brill. There is no need for individual articles of this nature as these characters are too minor to warrant any. Any such articles most likely would be flagged for Votes for deletion. As it is, I'm leery about there being articles on Mr. and Mrs. Banks and a link has been left for a potential article on Bert, but I'm not confident they would survive a VfD challenge. 23skidoo 20:10, 1 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I've just had to revert again. There is no need for the minor characters to have articles. The anonymous user made links for the individual Poppins books, and I kept those, although I'm skeptical anyone will actually write articles for each. (Mind you Opens the Door has one, but it is notable because of the 2004 cartoon adaptation). 23skidoo 00:57, 6 Feb 2005 (UTC)
As an alternative, why not create a characters section in this article and include them there? I'd recommend merging the information from the two Banks articles already in circulation. I think this would work better than devoting Wikipedia resources to an article on Ellen the maid. 23skidoo 01:11, 6 Feb 2005 (UTC)
I've just had to delete the links yet again. Would the anonymous user please explain his/her rationale? 23skidoo 19:31, 14 Feb 2005 (UTC)

link to children

I tried to change the line in the Mr. Banks section to read "and children" instead of "and #banks children" (while maintaining the appropriate link of course) but was unsuccesful and so canceled my efforts. Could someone please fix it, if only to show me how? Thanks, LA RoeDoe 18:52, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

In an article of this length, internal links are unnecessary, so I just removed the links completely. 23skidoo 19:31, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

Ridicule of Van Dyke

I reverted the statement re: ridicule on the basis that it is unsourced. Neither is it sourced in Dick Van Dyke. There needs to be examples given otherwise it's just a POV statement. By rights we should also cite a source for the statement that it's considered one of the worst accents -- who said this? Who proclaimed this? Yes, Van Dyke acknowledges it, but that's not enough. 23skidoo 20:04, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

This is absolutely ludicrous. That the accent is ridiculous might be an opinion, but that it is ridiculed IS fact! It is consistently ridiculed in Britain. Jooler 20:37, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
I don't believe that something as straightforward as this needs a citation, but if you insist http://www.theatreguidelondon.co.uk/reviews/marypoppins04.htm "It has become fashionable to ridicule Dick Van Dyke's attempt at a cockney accent in the film" - you could have searched for that yourself rather than just reverting! Jooler 20:47, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
As for one fo the worst accents.. etc.. do a bloody search yourself instead of complaining, and you will find that in an Empire magazine poll Van Dyke came second to Connery for giving the worst accent. Connery was given top billing as in whatever role he is playing, be it a Russian or an Irishman or a Spaniard he always sounds likke a Scotsman. Jooler 20:57, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
Please review Wikipedia:Cite sources. While you're at it I suggest reviewing Wikipedia:Wikiquette. You make no friends around here flying off the handle like that. You're the one who insists on having this piece of information in the article. The onus is on you, my friend, not me to provide a good citation. Just find a TV show that made fun of the accent and that's enough. The Theatre Guide citation is very very weak but it's a start. PS. Out of courtesy I should also point out the Three Revert Rule which both you and I are butting up against at present. 23skidoo 02:42, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
Curb your arrogance. I will not waste my time trying to search for a citation for for something that happens virtually everytime anyone mentions the accent. I have wasted my time by finding one already, and that will do. Ask any fellow Brit and he will tell you the same. Jooler 06:00, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
BTW in one of my edit summaries I put a link to a Google search for "Cor Blimey Mary Poppins" - given that Dick Van Dyke didn't say that in the film, anything that says this IS itself a parody of dick Van Dyke doing the accent! Jooler 06:38, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
The accent thing is true. In fact I would go further than the article. After this film he lost all credibility as a serious actor in the UK, a credibility that has never been regained here because of ridicule. The performance in this film entered our cultural psyche and cemented for many Brits the complete lack of sympathy and accuracy Hollywood films gave to their portrayal of the UK and the British, a trend only recently reversed in the somewhat more realistic "Brit flicks" which tend to use Hollywood cash but UK direction.

Some examples:

  • #5 in a US chart of worst accents ever A controversial choice for Number 5 as most would agree that this is one of the worst accents ever to appear on screen. But, it has been almost 40 years and frankly Tinseltown has turfed out worst since. Still, Van Dyke’s shocking portrayal of a cockney whistling chimney sweep is something which is locked in our collective memory. Cor Blimey and all that. However there has been a recent addition to the rank of the truly awful that pushes Dick down to number 5 (see Don Cheadle).

MRSC 06:32, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

I don't have a source - but it is very well known as the poor US attempt at a cockney accent. Pretty much the only thing I know about van Dyke is that he was in Mary Poppins and did a lousy accent. Secretlondon 07:14, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

As a slight aside, I always thought Bart Simpson's occaisional impressions of a "19th century cockney boot-black" were parodies of Van Dyke's accent. And yes, the attrocious accent is pretty much what Van Dyke is known for here in the UK. He was on TV a couple of weeks ago in a "100 Best Films"-type program acknowledging how bad it was. Still at least we can laugh about it now, can't we? Leithp 07:39, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

As another Briton, I'll add my backing to this. Dick Van Dyke's 'Cockernee' accent is famously ridiculed in the UK whenever his name comes up. The perfect example of how most Americans can't do Cockney accents, even if they think they can. Doesn't need a citation. Fact. Comes under the category of 'common knowledge' throughout the UK. -- Necrothesp 10:00, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

Another Brit here. It's infamous, yes :) I am trying to find a "reputable" source for this, but in the meantime, some remarks from UK-based people or sites.

It's become the canonical example of "US actor trying UK--or Irish in that last one--accent and getting it wrong" (and yes, I am sure that it happens the other way around too; and also that plenty of actors get it right). As the final example showed, it no longer has to be even the Cockney accent, although it usually is. I'm not sure that it's fair to say we ridicule van Dyke though. We just laugh at that accent.

Finally, it's probably fair to say that a lot of people here who laugh at the accent still love the film!

Telsa 14:55, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

  • Do a google for "dick van dyke school of accents" to yield the best results. MRSC 15:08, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
  • To whomever provided the above quotations -- sorry, this section got a little complex so I'm not sure who has signed what comment -- that is exactly what I was looking for. We don't need anyone to find a book on the subject, we just needed an example or two of sources stating that the accent was considered bad, rather than just saying it in general terms. I like the Things Asian quote the best. I'd add the quote myself however as I wasn't the one who dug it up it should be done by the person who found it so that they get proper credit. This is what makes Wikipedia a good community. I was not denying by any means that the statement wasn't true -- but with something like that it just makes sense to give some sort of citation. I'd have been satisified if someone referenced a Lenny Henry comedy skit or something. ;) Cheers. 23skidoo 20:52, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
    • Cobblers (that's Cockney rhyming slang). As Necrothesp said "Doesn't need a citation. Fact. Comes under the category of 'common knowledge' throughout the UK." You don't need a citation to put in an article the George Bush is widely ridiculed, it's a fact. Things Asian says "The accent was infamously mangled by American actor Dick Van Dyke in the 1964 film Mary Poppins". How is this site more "reputable" than the one I gave you earlier? How is that better than what you claimed was "very very weak" when I cited the Theatre Guide review of Mary Poppins which stated - "It has become fashionable to ridicule Dick Van Dyke's attempt at a cockney accent in the film". I pointed you in the right direction with Google hits for "Cor Blimey Mary Poppins" and "Dick Van Dyke school of Cockney". You don't seem to realise that you were in the wrong here. You reverted (3 times) verifiable facts made as good faith edits. You didn't bother to check for yourself whether it was a fact. You did not assume that it was a good faith edit, and you decided "arrogantly" to lecture me after reverting. Reverting good faith edits is wrong, you didn't know one way or another whether what I said was right or wrong you just assumed it was wrong and If I had not come back to check this page, it would have remained removed. You also don't seem to know the difference between a POV statement e.g. "Van Dyke's accent is ridiculous" - and reporting POV views e.g. "Van Dyke's accent is widely ridiculed" BTW It is parodied ((by everybody not comedians) to such an extent than you only have to say "Ayfeternowon Merry Pawpins" to get a laugh. It's old hat. Lenny Henry doesn't do Frank Spencer any more and most comedians don't tell knock knock jokes. Jooler 06:38, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
  • As an obvious late-comer to this debate, it's worth noting that van Dyke's accent as the banker is as good as his "Cockernee" is bad. Indeed, unless you know in advance, it's not easy to identify him as the actor as the make-up and accent are so well done. (db 051213)
    • And I never actually saw Jooler's response to me, so for what good it'll do I'll respond now. I was simply following wikipolicy. Using terms like "widely ridiculed" is considered "wishy washy" by Wikipedia. I'm guilty of using similar non-citations myself. In the DVD commentary, Dick Van Dyke says a British magazine listed him as one of the worst dialecticians of all time. If somebody can find it, that would certainly satisfy WP:CITE. 23skidoo 17:09, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

This doesn't have to be referenced, it genuinely is common knowledge and has seeped into the national psyche. Not everything needs a direct citation (at least on the main page- it's is of course perfectably acceptable to ask for justification on this page). I suppose a couple of links to e.g. the articles cited above wouldn't hurt although I personally don't see the point. EVERYONE in this country knows this (although of course wiki is international and should accommodate all). PS- It was recently suggested to me that Kevin Costner was in fact actually attempting a British accent in Prince of Thieves- can anyone verify this? If so that would probably unsettle Van Dyke's crown imho.

  • ... wiki is international and should accommodate all. That's the point I'm trying to make. People in America, here in Canada, and elsewhere are probably completely unaware (and most probably couldn't care less) that a group of people in Britain have an issue with his accent. So a citation is helpful. As far as your second point, yes Costner was apparently attempting to do some sort of British accent. At least Van Dyke put some effort into it. 23skidoo 18:58, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
Hah. You have to laugh after the controversy over this issue on this page. If you look at the BBC page mentioned at the top of this page [1], you will see that this Wikipedia article is ITSELF used to cite the claim that the accent is "still often cited as the worst attempt at a British accent by an American actor" - which is the very phrase that I put in here. Jooler 20:59, 7 January 2006 (UTC)


I think the editors at the BBC have been reading this article's talk page re: Sean Connery [2] Jooler (talk) 20:36, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Given all the criticism, maybe the Disney studios should have spent a few dollars having Van Dyke re-record his lines for the DVD releases, using something like a lower-class U.S. speech pattern. I'm sure that he could carry it off very well, and they have electronic tricks to make one sound younger. No worse than other examples of Disney revisionism. WHPratt (talk) 03:55, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

What "other examples"? Powers T 03:01, 16 October 2011 (UTC)
They've re-released older films with stuff that is now politically incorrect altered or deleted. See http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Fantasia_(film)&action=edit&section=20 or http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Melody_Time&action=edit&section=8 WHPratt (talk) 03:14, 16 October 2011 (UTC)
Oh yes, with regard to Fantasia, they did replace the entire soundtrack with a new orchestration at least once. WHPratt (talk) 12:46, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

Steven Spielberg's plans on this book

There were rumors of doing his own version of this book. Many people (esp. the press and internet community) were concerned about it and interpreted them as if he's remaking the most beloved 1964 film. However, his upcoming plans remains unclear. I tried to post this on this article, but I decided to go for this talk page instead. Maybe someone will do this for me.--69.236.27.167 09:27, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

  • We can probably blame the success of the Johnny Depp Willy Wonka film for this. If Spielberg does do this, I would hope it would not be as a musical. The original Poppins book could make a good family film on its own, but to try and do a remake as a musical would be foolhardy. The only reason Johnny Depp's film was so successful is that the Gene Wilder original, while undoubtedly a famous and beloved film, is nowhere near as famous and beloved as Mary Poppins. 23skidoo 15:23, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
    • Just to let you know that, as I searched in Google, Spielberg denied these gossips of Mary Poppins project to the media. I'm not sure if either someone who started this or he is telling the truth, but... anyway, I posted this on Steven Spielberg. Unfortunately, it was deleted for so-called "speculation" (probably I didn't say it properly).
EDIT:Oh, wait! The articles explained his rep Martin Levy's counter responses on these rumors. But what about Spielberg himself? Was it possible that the headlines from the press can be misleading? --Gh87 05:02, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

Trivia added

I added a sub-section for trivia in the film. However, I was apparently not logged in when I made that addition. Matt Deres 18:09, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

New images

I like the poster that was added to the infobox, but I think the secondary image should now be replaced with one that doesn't use the same picture of Julie Andrews. 23skidoo 17:07, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

Title Image

Who replaced the title image for the article? The previous image was much better, a lot clearer that this one. JQF 20:00, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Someone replaced the original poster with a reissue or home video cover. I reverted it back, since it makes better since to illustrate a 1964 film with its 1964 promotional materials. The 1964 poster image is a bit small, however; I will replace it with a better version of the same image.--FuriousFreddy 05:54, 8 February 2006 (UTC)


Remake

I removed the section delaing with the possible remake since it was just assertions with no evidence - or even details. If/when there's any actual evidence or even a coherent rumour about, someone can always re-insert. Matt Deres 23:49, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

This is certainly irrelevant to the article, but I think better than a remake, a complete new screenplay based on it, but a comedy, could come to a great movie. It's possible something like that comming from Spielberg, but I believe Harold Ramis could do a better work on it. I can only dream with such a movie... --Caue (T | C) 07:42, Tuesday March 28 2006 (UTC)

It may be relevant, but it needs to have a citation added especially for the quote that is allegedly (without source) attributed to Spielberg, otherwise it could be seen as speculation by some and be subject to deletion down the line. 23skidoo 16:37, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Bert analysis

I've never seem the original versions of the story, but that's irrelevant, since this is a comment about the adaptation itself, the film as a whole.

Bert and Mary do seem like having a platonic love. But there are some elements never discussed that leave an opening for interpretations. So I'll be giving it my interpretation, which I believe fits the story background harmonically.

First is how they clearly know each other for a long long time. If Mary is really not-human, angel, or whatsoever, we can't assume what's her real age. And if she goes with the wind, from place to place, probably she'd never go in the same neighborhood too many times. Maybe not even more than once, since just one was enough to affect the whole place.

That would mean that Bert would have to be in other places where she goes, to actually know her so well. And actually the movie starts with her in no place, just watching everyone from the top, which implies she is not always traveling. That could be the main reason for Bert's first good surprise on seeing her again, through the sillioutte. In that case, he would be that guy waiting for her to decide getting back, on land, and would be waiting for her anywhere she goes.

Why would Mary always get little angry with Bert at first? That's a trace of something that shouldn't happen in a platonic love, where sexual element is not present. Just think about how two really good friends fight. Long time friends don't fight, they don't have to stay together all the time, no reason to fight come up, it's the other way around, when they fight with someone else they look for each other for reflections. It even seems like they're married and going through a fight, although they like to help people so they don't let their relationship to interfere on "their job". At least Mary tries to keep the appearances while she can't stop loving him.

She goes the whole movie without "forgiving" him, if they're really on a fight, and he doesn't get sad about it. Why? Because he knows he will have another shot when they meet again in another place. That's because he can, also, perform same tricks that Mary can, but he was just not showing it off, as he is confident about it, and not angry at nobody (no need to prove anything). In fact, he is the only person in the film with no doubts, he never stops to think on what he is doing or have done. Of course, that could be happening because it's his story (he starts narrating the story). But the story is actually a mix. How could he know of everything that's told on the actual story we see on screen? He just starts it off, and the story tells by itself.

Also, he tricks her into using her magic every time, just to amuse everyone, and specially her. Inside the painting he can control everything, including the weather, while she doesn't show too much of her own magic. That could be just his "hello, I'm still here", and then going back to confident mode, with no need to magic, even because she was using it anyway.

I'm not trying to say "Bert is the biggest one" as it may sound, I'm just trying to say, "Bert seems like half Mary Poppins and vice-versa". Not just a friend, not just platonic, but a long "love" story in a long long time. That's because everyone seem to know Mary very well and overlook at Bert because of his accent.

Well, just my two cents. Wish to know what someone else think about Bert. :D

--caue 07:42, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Repost this to the Mary Poppins discussion board at imdb.com -- they take things like this in-depth quite often. (You should see the discussions on minor details in Moonstruck!) --Bluejay Young (talk) 03:49, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
That user has had a grand total of 2 posts to wikipedia since the fall of 2006, although one of them was just 2 weeks ago. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 05:38, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Mrs. Banks analysis

Anyone want to help me on an analysis on Mrs. Banks? --User:Angie Y.

Interpretation and analysis

The section on interpretation seems to potentially breach No original research unless Reliable sources for the interpretation(s) are cited.--A Y Arktos\talk 21:59, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

  • To further clarify , "Some scholars" must be able to be cited - please cite. Note also with reference to the debate above on Van Dyke's accent, Citing sources states: "Providing sources for edits is mandated by Wikipedia:No original research and Wikipedia:Verifiability, which are policy. This means that any material that is challenged and has no source may be removed by any editor."--A Y Arktos\talk 22:27, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
  • In February 2005 there was an addition to this article on intepretations by a user who has since not contributed to the wikipedia.[3]. In the next edit, User:23skidoo created a section and noted, "created Interpretations subchapter, wikilinked, and removed a few POV statements. This new section would be stronger if sources were cited." I have tagged the section as unreferenced since 15 June and there has been no interest in improving it. I am proposing to remove this section. Any comments?--A Y Arktos\talk 20:09, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Live action & animation

I modified the sentence which cliamed it was "one of the first films to combine animation with live action", since doing since as the relevent article, Live-action/animated film, notes, doing so had been a film technique for a full half century already. -- Infrogmation 03:07, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Trivia - Mary's Day off

"Unlike the book, Mrs. Banks never talks directly to Mary Poppins (besides looking at her in one scene of the film). So how could she have known it was her day off on Tuesday?"

mrs. banks probably talked to mary some other time that just wasn't in the movie. in practicality they would have talked to each other considering they lived in the same house, and the movie obviously doesn't show everything. an example would be eating. it doesn't show them eating, so why are they not starving to death. see? 128.227.137.157 23:54, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

NPOV Plot

Is it just me, or does it read just like the back of the box or something? I see a lot of wonderful and magical.... I know we're talking about Mary Poppins, but surely there is a better way to describe the plot without getting into the sugary details. It would help to cut down the Plot section, as well. Any thoughts? -JC 10:29, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

I edited it, if only because it used the word "wonderful" twice in rapid succession.--Geoduck 00:24, 27 March 2007 (UTC)


"deleted songs" headline

it doesn't seem like the headline accuratly represents the content. the songs weren't deleted, they were either not included, or cut because of time. "deleting" implies a concealed omission, which these were not.

any suggestions for a better one?

I do not believe "deleted" carries the connotation you think it does. Deleted and cut mean the same thing. That being said, perhaps "Unused songs" is what you're looking for.--DarshaAssant 05:06, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Similarities with Peter Pan

I think there are a few similarities between this movie and Peter Pan. Angie Y. 14:47, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Well... unless you are planning to include them in the article to make it better (which it wouldn't, no offense), this is not a chat room. Thanks!, Codelyoko193 (T/C) 22:14, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
Free discussion can lead to article improvements. Don't be a jerk. No offense! Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 01:13, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:JulieAndrews.jpg

Thanks for uploading or contributing to Image:JulieAndrews.jpg. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is not a suitable explanation or rationale as to why each specific use in Wikipedia constitutes fair use. Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale.

If you have uploaded other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on those pages too. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any non-free media lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Papa November (talk) 00:04, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Supercali… backwards

"Mary turns to Bert and claims to tell him how to say Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious backwards: "You can say it backwards, which is docious-ali-expi-listic-fragi-cali-repus". On the February 21, 2008 broadcast of ABC's World News with Charles Gibson, Robert Krullwich found that when using audio equipment to play what Mary says backwards, this proves to be false." -- This reads like it took you over forty years to figure it out. Just wow. --91.15.60.16 (talk) 07:22, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

No it doesn't.Alcuin of York (talk) 00:34, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

MP says that the reverse is:
docious-ali-expi-istic-fragil-cali-rupes

She simply broke up the word into seven parts of two syllables each, and recited the parts in reverse sequence. Except for the first, now last part, which should have been simply "-super." For this part, she reversed the consonants but kept the vowels in order, e.g.,"super" becomes "rupes." An added touch not understood by mere mortals.

Presumably, that sounded better than dividing it into syllables and reciting all fourteen in reverse order:
cious-do-i-al-pi-ex-tic-is-gil-fra-li-ca-per-su.

Or maybe
ciousdo-ial-piex-ticis-gilfra-lica-persu.

But, logically, we should be reversing all of the letters:
suoicodilaipxecitsiligarfilacrepus

Presumably pronounced
suoic-od-i-la-ipxe-citsi-ligarf-ilac-repus

Which I'd guess is getting closer to what it would sound like with the actual dialogue played backwards, but it's not a perfect representation because some of those letters would be pronounced differently due to the surrounding letters.

To do it really proper, you'd have to break it up into individual phonemes, so that each element's sound could be represented accurately but reversed. For example, the word has three letter c's, two of which have a "k" sound and one has an "s" sound.

Perhaps some phonetics expert could settle this for us.

WHPratt (talk) 13:43, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

Image

This article looks a bit bare without an infobox image (preferably a poster). ajmint (talk•email•contribs•subpages) 07:21, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Michael Ball

The text says: "Michael Ball, besides playing Mr. Banks, also provided the voice of Mary's talking umbrella as well as numerous other voice-over parts (including that of Admiral Boom's first mate)."... however, isn't he a bit young? He was born (according to Wikipedia) just 2 years before. Is this the right Michael Ball, vandalism, or was he just really, really young??? I have no idea. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.25.50.154 (talk) 00:07, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

It's a leftover bit of 58.187.32.112's vandalism from August 14th that no one caught. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 00:22, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Deleted scenes?

I saw this first in 1964 when it opened in the theaters. Was there a scene where Mrs. Banks was at a woman's rights march and got arrested? This might have been after the scene where she was getting ready to go out and had her rotten eggs to throw at the prime minister. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.215.158.253 (talk) 22:39, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

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