Talk:Matt Byrne

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Matt Byrne/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Batard0 (talk · contribs) 20:18, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

Good Article review progress box Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV () 3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant () Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

I'll take this one on. First impression is that it looks quite brief, but that doesn't mean it can't be a GA. As long as it reaches the broadness standard and the other criteria, we're good. I don't anticipate major issues here. Will get started in a bit. --Batard0 (talk) 20:18, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

• I assume you've looked, but I have to ask: are there any free pictures of him or could we obtain one somehow? --Batard0 (talk) 10:15, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

I've not found any. Thine Antique Pen (talk) 12:49, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

Lead

• I think "simply known as Matt Byrne" is unnecessary. "Matt" is such a common nickname for people named Matthew that I think including it is extraneous. I'd be ok with having his name as Matthew "Matt" Byrne, but devoting a whole subclause to it is too much, I think.

•  Done Thine Antique Pen (talk) 12:49, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

• I'd prefer having "played for the United Kingdom" instead of "Team GB", because "Team GB" is a brand and comes off as a little unencyclopedic. People not from the UK may not understand what Team GB is. I'd be ok with "played for the United Kingdom's paralympic team, or Team GB, in the 2012 summer games in London."

•  Done Thine Antique Pen (talk) 12:49, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

• The lead as it stands doesn't adequately summarize the contents of the article; it contains no mention of his bronze medals or his participation in the 2004 or 2008 Paralympic games. These details should be included. We should also be given some sense of his significance in the sport; is he regarded as one of the world's best? Are there any statistics we could include that would help establish his significance?

•  Done Thine Antique Pen (talk) 12:49, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

Personal life

• No reason to repeat his full birthdate here. Usually what's in the lead must also be in the body, but this doesn't apply to birthdates per the MoS. "Byrne was born in 1974 in Nottingham" would work, though, I think.

•  Done Thine Antique Pen (talk) 12:49, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

• "Paraplegic" needn't be capitalized mid-sentence.

•  Done Thine Antique Pen (talk) 12:49, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

• This strikes me as overly informal: "Matt currently lives in Trowell, with wife Anna and poochie Bo." I'd say "Matt lives in Trowell with his wife, Anna". "Poochie" is way too informal, and his pet I think is trivial in the context of an encyclopedia article. There's also a space between the end of this sentence and the ref.

•  Done - it was vandalism from this edit and was unsourced. Thine Antique Pen (talk) 12:49, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

Wheelchair basketball

• The first sentence repeats the second sentence of the previous paragraph. I recommend deleting the second sentence of the previous paragraph and moving it to replace this one; his accident is more relevant to his basketball career than his personal life, at least in the context of this article. Thus the first sentence of this section would be "He was introduced to wheelchair basketball during his rehabilitation at a hospital, after he was in a motorcross accident at the age of fifteen." Note also that it should be "introduced to", not "introduced into".

•  Done Thine Antique Pen (talk) 12:55, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

• We should put down the year when he started playing basketball, if possible.

•  Not done I can't find it.

• "Since then, he has played with the Sheffield Steelers wheelchair basketball club for five years, before moving to the Nottingham Jaguars, near where he was born." --> "He played for the Sheffield Steelers wheelchair basketball club for five years before moving to the Nottingham Jaguars, near where he was born." Also, it would be good if we could wikilink these teams (or redlink them) unless they certainly fail to meet the notability guidelines and likely never will.

•  Done and they don't meet notability guidelines. Thine Antique Pen (talk) 12:55, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

• "He has won the Super League many times with his current club, the Wolverhampton Rhinos (RGK TCAT Rhinos)." --> "His current club, the Wolverhampton Rhinos (RGK TCAT Rhinos), have won the Super League many times during his time there." Also, we'll want to wikilink the Rhinos if possible and explain the Super League more fully. What kind of league is it? Is it national in scope? And in which years, specifically, did the Rhinos win the Super League? Did they win championship games/series, or did they win because they had the best record in the league?

•  Done and I can't find much on the league. Thine Antique Pen (talk) 12:55, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

• "He made his Great Britain Debut in 2001" --> "He made his debut for the Great Britain national team in 2001". I assume this is what we're trying to say here. --Batard0 (talk) 12:54, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

•  Done Thine Antique Pen (talk) 12:55, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

• This sentence: "Byrne competed in his first championship in Amsterdam, the 2001/2002 European Championships" I'm having trouble grasping. Do we mean "Byrne participated in the 2001/2002 European Championships in Amsterdam, his first time competing at a major international event."? Also, is wheelchair basketball not played on teams? If that's the case, how can he as an individual have finished in fourth place? Shouldn't it be "He and the United Kingdom national team finished in fourth position, out of medal contention"?

• "However, in 2002, he achieved a silver medal in the 2002 World Championships in Kitakyushu, on the third-largest island of Japan." is better phrased as "In 2002, he won a silver medal at the 2002 World Championships in Kitakyushu, a city on the third-largest island of Japan."

• "In the Sassari 2003 European Championships, he finished in third position; winning bronze." is better as "He finished third and won a bronze medal at the Sassari 2003 European Championships."

• There should be a paragraph break after this sentence, introducing a shift to his first competition at a Paralympics. I also note that there appears to be no sourcing for the foregoing material in this section. Could this be added?

• "In 2004, Byrne competed in his first Paralympics, the 2004 Summer Paralympic Games, held in Athens, Greece. Along with his team, he won bronze in this event." --> "Byrne competed in the 2004 Summer Paralympic Games in Athens, Greece; he and the United Kingdom national team won the bronze medal." Who did they defeat, though? Is there anything we could add here about the team and its performance in Athens? Surely there are articles from the Paralympics, no? Were the UK favored to win? Were they thought to be one of the strongest teams? Was Byrne regarded as a star on the team, or an important player on it? Details like these would help the article immensely, I think.

• The following are merely listings of awards at championships and hence bog down the reader a bit: "In the 2005 European Championships in Paris, France, Byrne finished in silver medal position. In his second world championship, the 2006 World Championships held in Amsterdam, he finished in fifth position, along with his team-mates. In 2007 there was Byrne's third silver at the European Championships in Wetzlar, Netherlands." I would suggest summing this up as: "Following his first Paralympics, Byrne and his team won a silver medal at the 2005 European Championships in Paris and took fifth place at the world championships in Amsterdam the following year. Byrne and the U.K. team won the silver medal at the European Championships in Wetzlar, Netherlands in 2007."

• Make another paragraph break after this, shifting to his second paralympics.

• "Byrne won bronze at his second Olympics, the 2008 Summer Paralympics, held in Bejing." --> "Byrne and the U.K. national team won bronze at the the 2008 Summer Paralympics in Beijing." Note that "Beijing" is spelled incorrectly in this sentence. As with the previous paralympics, I would suggest finding more coverage of the team and its performance. This is a major global event, and should have received significant coverage. There ought to be something out there on the basketball team's fate beyond a simple listing of its medals.

• "The following year, he also won bronze in Adana, Turkey, at the European Championships. In 2011, Byrne won gold at the European Championships, held in Nazareth, northern Israel." --> "The following year, he also won bronze at the European Championships in Adana, Turkey. In 2011, he and his team won gold at the European Championships in Nazareth, northern Israel."

• New paragraph for the 2012 Paralympics, as before. I suggest a rephrase to: "Byrne was a member of the U.K.'s wheelchair basketball national team at the 2012 Summer Paralympics, held in London. The team finished in fourth place after losing to Canada and the United States." And again I would suggest gathering some more detail about the 2012 Paralympics, as there's sure to be some kind of coverage of the basketball team's chances and later its performance.

That's about it for a first go. I'm putting this on hold as these concerns are addressed. My biggest worry at this point is that we're not covering the subject in broad enough of a context, and that in the section about his career we're merely listing his team's performance at various events. Another major concern is that the lead doesn't entirely summarize the contents of the article, although this is easily fixed. If these things can be addressed, I think we'll be very close to meeting the GA criteria. A picture would be nice, but of course isn't required. --Batard0 (talk) 14:44, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

Could you please give me a week. Thine Antique Pen (talk) 10:58, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

Ok, sure. --Batard0 (talk) 11:08, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

•  Done all. Thine Antique Pen (talk) 21:44, 7 December 2012 (UTC)
  • Ok, looking through this, I'm noticing some minor things that actually haven't been done. I'm going to do them myself. Please revert and discuss in the event of disagreement. --Batard0 (talk) 14:32, 8 December 2012 (UTC)
    • All right. I've had another look, and I think it's ok. It would be nice if you could find additional coverage about Byrne, but I understand that might be hard. It still lacks context to a degree, and feels more like a listing of accomplishments than an encyclopedic biography. At the same time, I know it may be impossible to build full context around the subject because of a lack of reliable sources. --Batard0 (talk) 14:41, 8 December 2012 (UTC)
      • You say above that you can't find when he started playing wheelchair basketball, but it says on this page that he started in 2001. There's some more minor detail that could be included from this page. There's also a small article here that may be of use (gives the amount he was given to cover travel and training for the 2012 Paralympics), and some other coverage here that says he was the co-captain of the UK paralympic team in 2012, which should be in there. There's more context here about a nail-biting match in the 2012 Paralympics that it would be good to include in the article. We can put in how Byrne fared in this match. Plenty of other relevant coverage comes up in a Google search that could help fulfill the broadness criterion better. --Batard0 (talk) 14:50, 8 December 2012 (UTC)
        •  Done, but I'm not sure about the Germany match as it was non-major. Thine Antique Pen (talk) 15:07, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

While I'm not fully satisfied with this article, I'm going to list it because I think it passes the criteria. I think it could be presented a little more broadly and with a little more context, but that has to be balanced to a degree against the amount of information and coverage about the subject. There isn't very much. So good work on this, but I'd recommend keeping an eye out for more coverage and better sources to further improve the article. --Batard0 (talk) 10:41, 15 December 2012 (UTC)