Talk:Maverick

Samuel Maverick - the original Maverick

I also commented on Samuel Maverick's talk page. Samuel Maverick is the person whose actions led to the common use of the word "Maverick". There should be some mention of this in these 2 pages. Dyinghappy (talk) 05:55, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/05/weekinreview/05schwartz.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.193.220.27 (talk) 17:55, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

John McCain as a "maverick"?

It might be wise to protect this page, since I've noticed a considerable amount of vandalism. --24.40.200.38 (talk) —Preceding undated comment was added at 03:11, 3 October 2008 (UTC).

According to the Wikipedia article on John McCain, he has voted as a conservative nearly 83% of the time. This hardly qualifies him as someone who is "independent of thought and action". Voting in lock-step with the status quo isn't what one would describe as a "maverick" Let's take that political label off of this page, which should be filled with facts. Being called a maverick by his own party is very biased and should be written as a label on the article about John McCain —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.212.192.53 (talk) 02:41, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps 50 years ago being conservative was the status quo, nowadays it's a source of ridicule in many circles. However, I think his self-labeling of maverick is an attempt to distance himself from conservatism and its current unpopularity.

Regardless of whether or not he "is" a maverick or not, the fact is that the word "maverick" is more associated with him than with anything else in current American culture, and a reference to him should be included somewhere because this is a culturally, politically and liguistically significant fact. I added a NPOV reference to him under "people" explaining this -- perhaps this can be improved, but not including him seems like an inexcusable omission. 201.53.120.252 (talk) 01:10, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

The reason not to include him is that it is not likely that anyone will search for him by typing in "maverick". If someone wants to read the article about John McCain, he or she will probably type in "John McCain" or "McCain". It is a stretch of the imagination to think that someone will end up at this page when they are seeking his article. The purpose of this disambiguation page (this is not an article) is to help people who type in "maverick" find the article they were looking for. That's it. That's the whole purpose of this page. It is not a list of everything or everyone that could be called "maverick". SlackerMom (talk) 13:48, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

I came here looking up Maverick because of McCain. Don't know whether he needs to be included in the article about the word, but just wanted to point out that I'm one of those people. And clearly I am not alone as you guys are talking about it here. There has also been incessant news stories about him using the term. Maybe a news/media section with all references to maverick? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.227.247.206 (talk) 17:56, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

It seems that what you came here for was information about the word "maverick", because of John McCain and I'm guessing you found what was available. Wikipedia doesn't currenly have an article like John McCain claims to be a maverick or News reports calling John McCain a maverick. If it did, we might list it here. SlackerMom (talk) 13:45, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

When looking at historic figures who were considered a "maverick" you have to look at how long the legacy is of that person's being called by that name. John McCain will most likely not be remembered into the ages as a maverick, rather he is most notably known for being a Senator and a Presidential candidate. For instance, you probably wouldn't find Aaron Burr's name under the section on the words traitor or treason.74.223.202.130 (talk) 13:33, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

• While it is not appropriate to use this page to describe McCain (or Palin) as a maverick and link to their individual articles, it is undeniably true that the word "maverick" was heavily used during their presidential campaign, both by themselves and by commentators, to an extent that would, imo, easily justify a link to John McCain presidential campaign, 2008. The word "maverick" is currently mentioned 4 times in that article - twice within the body of that article, once in the infobox as their "chant", and as a title of a National Review article used as an inline citation. Deiz talk 12:05, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

• These are politicized and consequentialist arguments pertaining to McCain's decisions and voting records, which are not the point and have no relevance to debating the issue. This isn't political it is a matter of the cultural and historical significance of the man's public image and legacy. Eisenhower was known as Ike. He has his link on the 'Ike' disambiguation page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ike

"Honest [Abe]" has his too:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Honest_Abe&redirect=no

Finally here is "Scoop" Jackson's

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scoop#People

McCain is known as "THE MAVERICK" whether Wikipedia's tenured stodgy editors like to acknowledge that or not. See, "It's just a campaign slogan" dosen't work. Why is that? Because so was "I LIKE IKE!!!!" The slogan stuck, as has McCain's. Same as Abraham Lincoln's moniker "Honest Abe" all of which are linked appropriately as they ought to be here. There is no denying it. You can try but now watch this, and then see it's time to include the link, or else scrap the other indexes listed on precisely the same basis I have outlined.

"HE'S THE MAVERICK!" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmLVtU6fTPs

IF you by the same impartial logic that I have explained here admit that 'Ike' gets his disambiguation link to who we know he is, 'Honest Abe' gets his respective one to his page, and Scoop (Jackson) has his, it is completely unjustifiable on any objective basis (not politics, and if it is politics, Wikipedia is seriously endangering itself to further accusations of bias moreso than it has a reputation for according to some [weasel words perhaps but the truth all the same]) to exclude McCain's link from this page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.34.147.174 (talk) 05:35, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

• The current discussion is located at the bottom of this page (see: John McCain again), but since you replied here, I will as well. And I repeat what I said below: McCain is known as a maverick, not "The Maverick". He is not known as Maverick McCain. Maverick is not a name by which he is known or called; it is a term of description, and one that might be, and is, applied to many others. Your examples are all distinct from this kind of use. "Ike" was not coined for a campaign slogan; it was a nickname he was called by, and answered to, from his youth.[1] Likewise Scoop Jackson.[2] Lincoln picked up his monicker as an adult, but again it was used as a name by which he was actually called.[3] If you can find an impartial, reliable source in which Sen. McCain is referred to as "Maverick McCain" or "The Maverick" (with a demonstrably capital M, not just the casual way Sarah Palin said it in the YouTube video you linked), and that information is added to his article, then I will relent in my objections. But until that happens, I don't think McCain should be listed here as someone named Maverick.--ShelfSkewed Talk 15:58, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

• I submit that the man's own autobiography is authoritative especially given all other media references, other prominent personalities such as Sarah Palin's (politics aside) specific endorsements on that basis. Here is his autobiography: http://www.amazon.com/Worth-Fighting-Education-American-Maverick/dp/081296974X

"American Maverick," "The Maverick," "Maverick McCain" are all publically known names for him by his and his own [2008] campaign's acknowledgement, as well as many other media sources and commentators' opinions of him. He acknowledged as much himself on multiple occassions. I think you would have to be calling him a liar to deny that.

Google yourself up 'maverick mccain,' and who's Wikipedia page comes up? Google don't lie. It even suggests it when you type in Maverick. You should be able to see it is clear that he is "The Maverick" or "Maverick McCain" without much difficulty. You are denying this for political reasons I maintain having nothing to do with the obvious good-sense reasons for including him here. This is no more or less a slogan than it is a nick-name, and it is what he is known by. If you said you were going to "vote for The Maverick" who you meant is as obvious as saying you meant to vote for Old Hickory http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_hickory (Andrew Jackson) or Old Kinderhook http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Old_Kinderhook&redirect=no (Martin Van Buren.) It seems to me ya'll are just being obtuse now in denying the veracity of these example cases and refusing to include him.

I double-dog dare a named editor here to revert the change I am going to make now, and you can just strike out Old Hickory and Old Kinderhook's redirects too, while you're at it if you do. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.34.147.174 (talk) 01:49, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

• Politics has nothing to do with it; you're the only one talking politics. All of the nicknames you have cited so far are included somewhere in the subject's article, where they can be scrutinized for noteworthiness and verifiability. Although the article John McCain of course mentions maverick several times as a descriptor, nowhere does it say that he is known as "The Maverick" or "Maverick McCain". I again invite you to supply reliable, third-party sources for the use of Maverick as a name rather than a label and to add that information, with references, to McCain's article--which would be a more worthwhile use of your time, and a more useful addition to Wikipedia, than wrangling over an entry on a disambiguation page. And if the information and sources supporting your assertions stand up to scrutiny in McCain's article, then McCain should indeed be included here.--ShelfSkewed Talk 04:59, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

Maverick Origin of term.

In the 1840s, Samuel Augustus Maverick was a Texas cattleman who refused to brand his cattle because he said it was cruel to the animals. Rather than hail him as a humane hero, his neighbors denounced him as a damned hypocrite because his kindness enabled him to lay claim to all the unbranded cattle that wandered onto his range. Lawsuits and shoot-’em-ups are said to have followed, but the result was a triumph of eponymy: the cattleman’s name, Maverick, became the word for an animal that bore nobody’s brand. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 157.150.192.237 (talk) 00:04, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

This is a nice little article on the whole McCain/Palin Maverick ordeal. It may be slightly biased, I admit, but it does take opinions from the actual Maverick family. -Cam^T|C 11:49, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Unfortunately that link to New York Times, like virtually all links to that newspaper's WebSite, goes into redirection loop. Is there an accessible copy/version of that article anywhere? 198.144.192.42 (talk) 12:42, 6 December 2008 (UTC) Robert Maas, tinyurl.com/uh3t for contact info

Definition at top of page

States "Sometimes it means to swear to one." This seems ambiguous and I haven't found any obvious examples by Googling it. Should it be removed? Lars (talk) 17:56, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

Removed as part of a general cleanup. tempodivalse [☎] 15:16, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Definition of Maverick

The current text is all well and good, but I came here to find out what a "Maverick" meant when applied to people. (Not McCain, incase you're thinking that). And then I get here, and find that there is no actual way to find out. I resorted to using Google define:maverick to figure it out.

Perhaps adding this in? Or if it exists, reorganising the data to ensure it's the easier part to find? Clintonio (talk) 02:06, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

There is no Wikipedia article, as far as I can tell, that deals with that use as separate a topic. Did you try the Wiktionary link? The term as it relates to people is defined there.--ShelfSkewed Talk 04:18, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

• I've added the adjective definition (and cited the relevant wiktionary article). I've also added a "refimprove" template to the article, as many of the claims made in it are not backed up by the articles it links to (i.e. the statement regarding a brand of Maverick cigarettes). bwmcmaste (talk) 17:26, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

• Disambiguation pages are not articles; they are navigation pages with their own manual of style. Per those guidelines, I have removed the dictionary definition ("Rather than including a dictionary definition of a word, create a cross-link to our sister project, Wiktionary.") and the Refimprove tag ("References should not appear on disambiguation pages. Dab pages are not articles; instead, incorporate the references into the target articles."). There is already a Wiktionary template in place; and the Maverick brand is mentioned in the Lorillard article, so if any referencing is needed, it should be done there.--ShelfSkewed Talk 12:51, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

"Dulce et decorum est...", when colleagues "do double duty" by also serving as object lessons for generations of future colleagues, in this case in about the span of canonical human gestation! SS's second take -- that the lexicographic meaning is far from being focal for our coverage. Nevertheless, the [[WP:PAPER|(presumably trivial) lexicographic facts do not per se make unmentionable the etymology underlying the (dominant) eponymous sense of the word. Jerzy•t 14:31, 23 October 2018 (UTC)

John McCain again

John McCain is known as a maverick (lowercase) not "The Maverick". This is distinct from the example of Scoop Jackson left in the edit comment; Sen. Jackson was called, and answered to, Scoop--i.e. he was (nick)named Scoop. Sen McCain is not named (in the uppercase sense) Maverick; he is simply one among many described as a maverick.--ShelfSkewed Talk 19:37, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

Agreed, Shelf. This disambig is about things that are actually named "Maverick," as in a proper noun, NOT an adjective! In the case of the professional wrestler who has adopted the stage name, it is appropriate here. In terms of the dozens of current and historic political figures that have been dubbed "mavericks," unless someone can provide a source that "Maverick" can actually be considered a name or nickname, then no. (and indeed, "Scoop" Jackson is a perfect example of a nickname that the person himself used) And the list would probably grow to several hundred people if we opened that gate! Montanabw^(talk) 20:01, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

Additional April 2010 discussion above, at: John McCain as a "maverick"?