Talk:Messiah Part II

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Classical music, which aims to improve, expand, copy edit, and maintain all articles related to classical music, that are not covered by other classical music related projects. Please read the guidelines for writing and maintaining articles. To participate, you can edit this article or visit the project page for more details.Classical musicWikipedia:WikiProject Classical musicTemplate:WikiProject Classical musicClassical music articles

A fact from Messiah Part II appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 29 July 2011 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that Handel's Messiah, Part II contains the famous Hallelujah Chorus and the oratorio's longest movement, the air for alto He was despised?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2011/July.

Wikipedia

Tip: Anchors are case-sensitive in most browsers.

This article links to one or more target anchors that no longer exist.

[[1 Corinthians 15#Resurrection of the dead: 12-58|resurrection of the dead]] The anchor (#Resurrection of the dead: 12-58) has been deleted.
[[1 Corinthians 15#Resurrection of the dead: 12-58|Resurrection of the dead]] The anchor (#Resurrection of the dead: 12-58) has been deleted.

Please help fix the broken anchors. You can remove this template after fixing the problems. | Reporting errors

A seperate article on the Hallelujah Chorus is needed[edit]

Handel's Messiah is most commonly known as and for the Hallelujah Chorus. Far more people will know the name Hallelujah Chorus, or at least understand it, then they do "Handel's Messiah" and yet there is no article or section that adequately discusses the history and influence of the chorus. Hallelujah Chorus redirects to Messiah Part II#44 and The Hallelujah Chorus redirects to Messiah (Handel)#"Hallelujah", a subsection which doesn't exist. There are three solutions I think: (1) create a large section on Messiah (Handel), (2) expand Messiah Part II#44 to include history and influence, and include there the phrase "Hallelujah Chorus", or (3) create an entirely separate article just to talk about the Hallelujah Chorus as the separate choral work that it has become. I prefer the latter because the Hallelujah Chorus is culturally, in practice and in the mind of most, a separate song. It has its own history and influence separate from the rest of Handel's Messiah. --Bruce Hall (talk) 08:53, 6 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

You are welcome to create that article. #44 would point to it then as "Main article". The wrong link appears fixed in the meantime. You will have seen that there is material as a comment in #44 from Handel's Messiah that was not fit for the FA nor for this article on the music and content, but may be useful for your purpose. Hallelujah is often performed as the conclusion of the so-called Christmas Portion, as you will know. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:37, 6 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Good idea. I might just do that. I'll wait a couple of days for any others to respond. I am not knowledgeable about the topic but maybe I can gleam enough from Wikipedia to put up a stub. --Bruce Hall (talk) 13:51, 6 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Quite old, but I completely agree. The Hallelujah chorus is really a separate entity in the public mind. --Torchflame (talk) 16:53, 24 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I'm missing the mention of David Axelrod's version of Handel's Hallelujah from 1971 --Melly42 (talk) 20:00, 31 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Add it, with a source, if it's worth mentioning, but don't be disappointed if others think differently, - this is first about Handel's work, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:29, 31 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Sections with information errors[edit]

As a conductor studying this work I found that i this article cointains some errors of information. The ones that I've identified:

- The section 39 (Novello numbering) is described in form as a Tenor Arioso. This is deeply wrong, this section is a Chorus. The description of the section reinforces this error, that's why I believe it was a intetional messing up. This error is also present in the "Structure of Handel's Messiah" article. - The section 38 contains an error almost equal to the former; while it's in reality a Soprano Aria is described as a "Duet" between Alto and Chorus. Again, this error is present also in the "Structure of Handel's Messiah" article.

Both errors can be verified in music scores, here's IMSLP as example: http://imslp.org/wiki/Messiah,_HWV_56_%28Handel,_George_Frideric%29

- Section 24 in all editions that I have in hand its title is written "Surely, He hath borne our griefs" instead of "grieves". I myself consider this an error, what about you?

- While not an error per se, sections 31 and 32 are designated in some editions as a "Tenor or Soprano" Aria, instead of just Tenor. This is a considerable observation because there are tons of complete recordings where this movement is sung by a soprano (e.g. René Jacobs with the Freiburger Barockorchester) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 187.23.41.72 (talk) 09:29, 16 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Merge?[edit]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

This was the article, with a redirect from Hallelujah Chorus, before that was made a separate article. I was actually happy that anecdotes about standing of the audience during the performance could leave this article, which is dedicated to the composition. I am afraid that a merge of info such as football clubs using the music might not be a good idea. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:30, 10 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Please discuss at Talk:Hallelujah Chorus, as per the template at the top of both pages. I'm certainly with you on not merging trivia. Bencherlite ^Talk 11:34, 10 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Done (before you asked). I posted here because the "discuss" didn't point to the other, but fixed it when I noticed, and commented there. - The things not trivia were here before, we could just return to that version. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:28, 10 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the fix, but starting a second discussion about what could be done really isn't helpful. Bencherlite ^Talk 12:31, 10 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Sound files[edit]

Is there a way to reduce the clutter of the sound files? The repetition of the performers' names is annoying? I suggest to add them to the table. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:44, 12 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Messiah Part II. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120908030611/http://gfhandel.org/messiah.html to http://www.gfhandel.org/messiah.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 23:19, 8 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified (January 2018)[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Messiah Part II. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110717031118/http://www.gfhandel.org/101to200.htm to http://gfhandel.org/101to200.htm

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Y An editor has reviewed this edit and fixed any errors that were found.

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 13:41, 26 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]