Talk:Mike Heath (swimmer)

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GA Review[edit]

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This review is transcluded from Talk:Mike Heath (swimmer)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Cloudz679 (talk · contribs) 10:41, 26 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

  • First mention of the name should include Mike, a la "William Jefferson "Bill" Clinton"
  • Currently listed as a competition swimmer, possibly better to describe him as a freestyle swimmer such as the FA Bob Windle, who has this description
  • The lead, at only one paragraph, appears on the short side
  • Per MOS:LAYOUT, ""Bibliography" is discouraged because it is not clear whether it is limited to the works of the subject of the article"
  • "He is the son of Edward W. Heath and Elizabeth C. Heath, and the youngest of four children." doesn't appear to be referenced
  • fn3 should show "subscription required"
  • " In 1982, he set a new Texas state high school record in the boys' 200-yard freestyle (1:30.53), breaking the previous record that he had set in 1980 (1:37.88)." better to state he broke the record in 1980 and again in 82, currently imbalanced
  • "and a silver in individual events" seems to lack detail
  • "together with fellow Americans" this is redundant as a national competition
  • "He earned a third gold medal by swimming for the winning U.S. team in the preliminary heats of the 4×100-meter medley relay." That doesn't win a medal!
  • "American media dubbed Heath and his relay teammates the "Gross Busters."" or, specifically, just the Los Angeles Herald Examiner
  • "record-setting performance" record breaking, was it not? And which record? Olympic, World?
  • What is "Pan Pac gold medal"?
  • "He is married to the former Sherri-Lee Schricker" former in what sense?
  • A photo isn't necessary, but would be a welcome addition. Is anything available?
  • On hold while the above is addressed. C679 11:38, 26 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • No engagement from author within the specified period, closing at this time as not listed. C679 09:38, 4 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
  • First mention of the name should include Mike, a la "William Jefferson "Bill" Clinton"
This is a horrid, if common practice on Wikipedia, and one that no professional encyclopedia uses (see, e.g., Encyclopedia Britannica). First, it is silly and redundant to insert a common, widely used diminutive, and obviously derivative nickname in the middle of the statement of the article subject's full legal name; this could easily be misinterpreted as meaning that "Mike" is actually part of the subject's full name, when it is not. This is also amazingly redundant and unnecessary when the article title, infobox title, and "nickname" infobox parameter all use "Mike." I don't believe that MOS:BIO requires this, either; your Bill Clinton example is one of several that show accepted, but not required Wikipedia practices at MOS:BIO. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 16:48, 4 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Currently listed as a competition swimmer, possibly better to describe him as a freestyle swimmer such as the FA Bob Windle, who has this description
"Competition swimmer" or "competitive swimmer" are the commonly used phrases to describe an athlete who engages in championship swimming, as opposed to recreational swimming, or long-distance swimming such a channel swims, etc. "Freestyle" is one of the four commonly used swimming strokes/styles, and the only one in which Heath competed in international events. I have tweaked the lead to accommodate your concern. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 16:48, 4 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • The lead, at only one paragraph, appears on the short side
Yes, it was on the short side. I have expanded the lead to provide a fuller overview of the article. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 16:48, 4 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Per MOS:LAYOUT, ""Bibliography" is discouraged because it is not clear whether it is limited to the works of the subject of the article"
Section header changed to "further reading" to accommodate your concern. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 16:55, 4 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • "He is the son of Edward W. Heath and Elizabeth C. Heath, and the youngest of four children." doesn't appear to be referenced
Deleted. I am unable to find a reference for the parents and family relationships. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 16:48, 4 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • fn3 should show "subscription required"
Done -- "subscription required" parenthetical added to footnote. Dirtlawyer1 (talk)
  • " In 1982, he set a new Texas state high school record in the boys' 200-yard freestyle (1:30.53), breaking the previous record that he had set in 1980 (1:37.88)." better to state he broke the record in 1980 and again in 82, currently imbalanced
Agreed: it could have been phrased better. I have tweaked the sentence to accommodate your concern. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 16:48, 4 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • "and a silver in individual events" seems to lack detail
"At the 1984 Summer Olympics in Los Angeles, he won three gold medals as a member of the winning U.S. teams in the men's relay events, and a silver in individual events." Actually, that's an introduction to all that follows: three golds in relay events, and one silver in two individual events. The detail is provided in the subsequent three paragraphs, including his performances in the 100- and 200-meter freestyle individual events. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 16:48, 4 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • "together with fellow Americans" this is redundant as a national competition
It's more in the nature of a simple clarification, without saying that all modern Olympic athletes represent their country, and all athletes on a given relay team (or in other team event) must be from the same country. This was not always the case -- see the 1904 and 1908 Olympics where the IOC permitted so-called "mixed teams" composed of athletes from different countries in team events. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 16:48, 4 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • "He earned a third gold medal by swimming for the winning U.S. team in the preliminary heats of the 4×100-meter medley relay." That doesn't win a medal!
Cloudz, that's historically incorrect. Starting at the 1984 Olympics, all athletes who participate as a member of a team in either a swimming or track and field relay event -- in the qualifying heats or the finals -- receive a medal if their team finished 1st, 2nd or 3rd in the final. In fact, up to eight medals have been awarded to individual relay team members in recent Olympic Games; given the depth of American and Australian swimmers, there have been instances where four completely different swimmers compete in the final than in the preliminary heats. Please review the Olympic relay event articles, which list all team participants in either the preliminary heats and final. Also, Heath's third gold medal is supported by the footnoted source. FYI, this is consistent with how Olympics athletes in other team sports --e.g., association football, basketball, hockey, water polo -- are treated. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 16:48, 4 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • "American media dubbed Heath and his relay teammates the "Gross Busters." or, specifically, just the Los Angeles Herald Examiner
The phrase may or may not have been used by the Herald Examiner first, but the phrase was widely used by multiple media outlets after the 1984 Olympics. I have added a second online reference from the Los Angeles Times, which mentions world-wide use of the phrase and does not credit the Los Angeles Herald Examiner. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 16:48, 4 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • "record-setting performance" record breaking, was it not? And which record? Olympic, World?
Gross set a new world record in the 200-meter freestyle at the 1984 Olympics. I have tweaked the phrase in question to clarify this. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 16:48, 4 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • What is "Pan Pac gold medal"?
The Pan Pacific Championships are commonly referred to as the "Pan Pacs," with "Pan Pac" being the adjective form. The full phrase "Pan Pacific Championships" is stated in the immediately preceding sentence, but I have now replaced "Pan Pac" with the complete phrase for the sake of clarity. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 16:48, 4 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • "He is married to the former Sherri-Lee Schricker" former in what sense?
A commonly used phrase to signify that a now-married woman no longer uses her maiden name. That said, I have removed the ambiguous phrase for the sake of clarity. Dirtlawyer1 (talk)
  • A photo isn't necessary, but would be a welcome addition. Is anything available?
Cloudz, I have found no free-image photo after a diligent search. Heath's swimming career occurred before the advent of the internet, digital photos and camera phones, so we don't have the explosion of free-image digital photos taken by amateurs and posted on the net as we have for more recent athletes. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 16:48, 4 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • On hold while the above is addressed. C679 11:38, 26 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Cloudz679: Thank you for your review comments above, Cloudz679. Please accept my apologies for my slow response. This GA nomination sat unreviewed for three months, and I have been scrambling to deal with other Wikipedia matters over the past week. I believe that I have now addressed all of your concerns raised above. Please advise how you would like to proceed -- whether you want me to re-list/renominate the article, or otherwise. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 16:57, 4 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review[edit]

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This review is transcluded from Talk:Mike Heath (swimmer)/GA2. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: The Rambling Man (talk · contribs) 08:14, 10 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]


Comments - by now I think you should be familiar with most of these topics!

  • The lead could be expanded a little to cover all aspects, not just the elite wins and records.
  •  Done Expanded lead to include Texas origins and college career. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 23:56, 12 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Make sure all those x's are multiplication signs for the race titles.
  • "Heath was born in McAllen, Texas." tiny sentence, either expand or merge, probably the latter, to avoid saying "Heath did this. Heath did that."
  • "Highland Park high school swim team" just my ignorance here: you called it Highland Park High School, yet then you decapitalise to "high school" for his team membership. Is that standard AmEng?
  •  Done Highland Park High School is proper capitalization. The school mascot is the Fighting Scots, therefore the full team name is the Highland Park Fighting Scots, which can be described as the Highland Park Fighting Scots high school swim team. I could not find a source for Heath's high school swimming that cited the school's mascot, so I deleted the mascot, leaving behind capitalization that no longer worked. Dopey mistake, now fixed. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 23:56, 12 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • "and breaking his own " perhaps "going on to break his.."
  •  Done Tweaked it -- please see if the revised sentence is clearer. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 23:56, 12 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • "edging Steve Lundquist of the SMU Mustangs" while this is interesting, to a non-expert there's no context, he could have edged Mickey Mouse from Disney University for all I know, what's the relevance of this "edging"?
  •  Done Clumsy reference to a future teammate and fellow gold medalist on the 1984 U.S. Olympic team. Not directly relevant to the subject's narrative, so I deleted it. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 23:56, 12 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • In other articles, the later honours, like the 1996 induction are captured in a "later life" or "life after competition swimming" section.
  • Heath has not been inducted into the ISHOF yet, nor received any other major honors I could find. Given that the UFHOF is a university honor, it seemed most appropriate to include the single HOF honor with his college career. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 23:56, 12 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • "and a silver in individual events" why not be precise and say "a silver in the 200 m freestyle"?
  • I'm distinguishing between the four-man relay team events and the individual events in which he competed. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 23:56, 12 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oh, I see why, the first para is an intro para to the next two paras. It reads odd to me, why not deal with it in one go?
  • I seem to have been a little off my game in this article, with several awkward constructions sprinkled about the text. I'll ping you back on this -- sometimes when the meaning of a sentence or two of one's writing is not immediately clear to an editor or reader, it's just better to chuck it all and rewrite it from scratch. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 23:56, 12 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • " behind Michael Gross's world" no need to repeat his first name.
  • "a controversial result" you can expand upon this as you did in the other article I recently reviewed, it's a good tale.
  •  Done More relevant to Mark Stockwell's article than Heath's, because Stockwell finished second. Still it was a complete fuck-job by the starter. The race should have been restarted: the bad start may have cost Heath a silver or bronze medal, and probably cost Stockwell the gold. Expanded a bit with references frpm the Stockwell article per your suggestion. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 23:56, 12 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • No need to repeat Biondi's first name.
  • "Pan Pac " no need for such colloquial abbreviations (unless you announce the abbreivation beforehand).
  • Per previous review, can you directly reference the tables with the world records?
  • Are seven See alsos really directly relevant to this individual's bio?
  • Well, I pared the linked articles from seven to five: two are world record progressions, including the subject (significant); two are lists of Olympic and FINA world championship medalists, including the subject (significant); and the fifth is a list of Olympic athletes produced by the subject's alma mater ("A small college. And yet there are those who love it.")

A few issues, easily resolved, so I'll put it on hold as usual. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:14, 12 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

  • @The Rambling Man: Well, this is getting to be routine, isn't it? I believe I have addressed all of your concerns except one, and I want to look at that again with fresh eyes again in a few hours. Please let me know if you have any additional comments, questions or suggestions. We live to serve. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 23:56, 12 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ok, no worries, let me know when you'd like me to take another look. The Rambling Man (talk) 06:14, 13 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • @The Rambling Man: Please take a look at the intro paragraph of the "international career" section again, and see if the transition makes more sense to you now. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 06:29, 13 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • @The Rambling Man: Thank you, TRM. I don't have any more GA nominations currently pending, but I hope we have occasion to work together again in the near future. It's been a pleasure. Cheers. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 12:25, 13 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Likewise, feel free to ping me directly should you have anything you'd like me to review. The Rambling Man (talk) 12:32, 13 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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