Talk:Mild hybrid

Facts?

The facts on this page should be reviewed. The article incorrectly states that the electric motor does not supplement the gas engine. This is not correct.

The GM-hybrid system very similar in function to the original Honda hybrid systems. The difference was only in the size and power of the electric motors and batteries. The theory of operation is basically the same.

It is not clear if GM belt assist systems as used on the Saturn Vue are meant to be part of this section. It seems that GM has done two different "mild hybrid" systems. The original one used on the Silverado was packaged with the torque converter and appears to provide no motive assist. The belt assist kind used on vehicles such as the Vue does provide some power assist to the motor. As such it is functionally the same as what Honda used on the Insight and first gen Civic hybrid (not sure about gen 2). The only significant difference is the belt system can not provide as much power. I believe the numbers were something like 7hp vs ~20hp.

I think this section should be rewritten such that it is clear that "mild" has been applied to two different systems. The first section describes mild systems as one thing, the second paragraph as another. Springee (talk) 14:21, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Ford

Ford built a "Tonka" themed pickup truck using a hydraulic pump/motor inserted between the transmission and driveshaft. That was coupled to a pair of pressure accumulator tanks. During braking and for short periods after starting, the pump moved fluid to the pressure tank. When accelerating away from a stop, the fluid went through the pump to provide an assist. Ford never put the system into production. Now the company is working on a series hybrid truck using hydraulic drive. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bizzybody (talk • contribs) 08:01, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Oversized starter motors?

It seems that the mild hybrids have "oversized" BATTERIES not starter motors. Starting the engine in a mild hybrid is the same as starting the engine in a non-hybrid. However running the vehicle accessories when the engine is off requires a larger battery. It's common for both the battery voltage and energy storage to be increased. Reference http://lees.mit.edu/consortium.htm Perhaps the article words could change to "upsized battery" since they are appropriately sized for their new application. mbbradford 22:04, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

This just isnt true. In a BAS Hybrid the starter used for the initial startup is no different than any other car and operates at 12V. However once the initial preconditions for Autostop are met, subsequent auto-starts (when the brakes re released) occur when the 36V battery powers the motor/generator unit. This event takes less than 500 milliseconds.WopOnTour (talk) 07:40, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Another comment: why would the start-stop-system be called mild hybrid? It has nothing to do at all with being hybrid (it's no different than a normal start-stop system in essence), whereas the regenerative braking IS directly related! ... added @ 26 september 2009

Sorry for so long to respond. Automatic Start-Stop is just one potential feature or behavior of hybrid vehicles. Mild hybrids generally have only one or more of the following features: Auto Start/Stop, electric power assist, and regenerative braking. What mild hybrids cannot do is launch the vehicle under 100% battery power (EV mode) because in general this type of hybrid uses parallel architecture and as such their electric motors and HV batteries are too small to do so.

So a hybrid that CAN implement ALL of these features, (including EV operation) would be considered a "Full" or "Strong" hybrid.(usually series-parallel) and anything less, it's a mild hybrid. But some oare more mild than others. For instance the GM Parallel Hybrid Truck (PHT) was a "fleet-only' mild hybrid produced from 2004-2007. The electric motor was actaully pretty large but it only used 36 volts of battery power. Subsequently it could really only do Auto-Stop/Start and minor levels of regenerative braking, but didnt provide ANY power assist or EV launch. The 1st generation of the Honda Eco-Assist (Insight, Civic) is actually very similar to the GM PHT but it has a much larger battery.(and obviously got MUCH better mileage)

In fact,the newest version of the Honda Eco-Asssit is somewhat of a special case, as it is actually able to use the electric motor at times to propel the vehicle but only once it has been brought up to speed, so it doesnt technically operate in "EV mode" (i.e. operate up to a minimum speed on 100% electric powered motor drive) Still (arguably) a mild hybrid, but an enhanced version. So sometimes the term "mild hybrid" can become somewhat blurry, but in my opinion the best reference with respect to this technology is NOT all the various "green-car" and "we are hybrid" websites and blogs, but actually the Society of Automotive Engineers that produce a document (J1715) that outlines a standard and defines a standard methodology for the creation of these definitions. The peeple that MADE these terms (SAE) should be the ones that define them IMO WopOnTour (talk) 21:07, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Translations

You can add translations to the article name to other languages (although the page is not created in the other language Wikipedia):

• Spanish: híbrido suave.

Merge with Hybrid vehicle drivetrain

I totally agree with this. There are just too many hybrid wikis with varying levels of RS supported techncial accuracy. A mild hybrid is merely a type or variation of hybrid drivetrain so it clearly is a subsection over there. WopOnTour (talk) 05:44, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Non hybrid vehicles featured in this page

It should be noted that the Citroën C3, BMW and Mini (and many others since the paragraph was written) that are put here in the mild-hybrid category have never been advertised as mild-hybrid by their manufacturer, simply because they are not mild-hybrid. They feature a stop-start system, some of them feature so-called regenerative braking, which is in fact only alternator management, but their electric motor can not be used for anything else than starting the engine, what does not qualify them as hybrids. 128.178.17.157 (talk) 11:20, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

Not true. These are hybrids, despite their lower levels of electrical contribution. Some people may refer to them as "miro-hybrids" due to their exclusive "Auto-Stop-Start" features, but by most all SAE conventions, they are still hybrid vehicles.WopOnTour (talk) 20:40, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

I see that it is now corrected in the text (not by me). The first real micro-hybrid systems using Start/Stop systems were released only last year by PSA (e-HDi). 128.178.17.157 (talk) 14:04, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

Mild Hybrid Buses in the UK?

I think some of the mass transit buses in the UK could be classed as mild hybrid (although the technology seems to be fully diesel electric with no direct coupling of diesel motor to the wheels)

Wrightbus have a few models, including the New Routemaster London bus.

The Wrightbus models in use on some routes in London buses move away from standstill on battery powered electric motor, and typically within 30 seconds the main diesel motor starts to maintain speed and accelerate.

The advantage of this approach is the diesel motor does not have to operate in a low-revs/high torque mode, which is typically when the motor would produce a significant amount of particulate emmission (compared to distance travelled) and also would consume more fuel.

I will be checking the relevant bus articles for inclusion.

http://www.wrightsgroup.com/datasheets/Hybrid_Diesel_Elec.pdf

--193.35.254.234 (talk) 11:07, 17 October 2014 (UTC)

The latest references in the article are 2017—more recent material should be incorporated.

The latest references in the article are 2017—more recent material should be referenced and its contents included in the article. For instance:

“To Power the Future, Carmakers Flip on 48-Volt Systems” By Norman Mayersohn NY Times Feb. 8, 2018 https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/08/business/electric-cars-48-volts.html

“Everything You Need To Know About The Upcoming 48-Volt Electrical Revolution In Cars” David Tracy Jalopnik 1/13/17 https://jalopnik.com/everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-upcoming-48-volt-1790364465

“48-volt, mild hybrid. A shrewd fix to hybrid power shortfalls. Because who wouldn’t want four-times the voltage and power.” https://www.delphi.com/innovations/48-volt-mild-hybrid

“Why Your Next Car Might Use 48-Volt Technology: Better fuel economy, more power, and improved durability. What’s not to like?” Consumer Reports By Keith Barry April 23, 2018 https://www.consumerreports.org/automotive-technology/why-your-next-car-might-use-48-volt-technology/

A google search for "mild hybrids" should turn up more. There has been a lot of action on this topic in recent years.

(Sorry, I've forgotten the tags to use for links, etc.) Harshbuzz (talk) 16:38, 31 January 2020 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not a directory

I would suggest that Mild_hybrid#List_of_makes_and_models falls foul of policy WP:DIRECTORY. Jdee4 (talk) 19:08, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

Warranty coverage:ent, it will probably be out of warranty and the owner will have to foot a sizable bill.

While full hybrids have long warranties forced upon them by law, mild hybrids do not . So, for example, in a few years when the 48V battery needs replacem 2601:8C3:857D:C300:34DC:6EE2:D697:1096 (talk) 00:17, 11 October 2022 (UTC)

Mild Hybrid Definition

This page seems to be a bit conflicting in terms of how Mild hybrid systems are defined. As of 2023, most vehicle manufacturers use this term for vehicles equipped with the 48V mild hybrid system. There are exceptions such as Volvos utilizing a 42V system. Mild hybrid systems being identified on this page at the moment seems to vary between first generation true hybrid vehicles and the current 48V systems. 2600:1700:5854:26A0:87F:F8F9:132A:A1E5 (talk) 15:55, 31 October 2023 (UTC)