Talk:Minnesota State Colleges and Universities system

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matthewcw (talk) 14:05, 27 June 2012 (UTC)I removed the following from the "facts" section on the main page. As you read this, I think it will become sufficiently clear that this is not a "fact" but is rather an opinion (that might also border on "original research") posted by someone who has a grudge against something in the MnSCU system. Without commenting on the validity of said grudge and/or the emotional need to vent and/or some moral commitment to "warning" others, this wikipedia article is simply not the right place for it.[reply]

"Since 1999 Minnesota State Colleges and Universities have been immune to "educational malpractice" lawsuits under the precedent set by the Minnesota Court of Appeals decision in Alsides v. Brown leaving students no private right of action. This concerns consumers of education services marketed by the state of Minnesota as it exposes them to unusual hazards. These schools demand payment in advance while the consumer has no alternative but to accept what is meted regardless of inequality. These schools may at any point and without cause deny students access to resources and thus deny them the opportunity to complete their degree. This is the outcome of the precedent set by Alsides v. Brown allowing these schools to tailor their standard of care without oversight."

This information might be more appropriate on a page concerning Alsides v. Brown, and if the original author of this "fact" is so willing, might be a useful article to start.

External links modified[edit]

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Renaming and Branding Effort and other Discussion[edit]

204.77.49.155, It appears your IP address is from a computer within the Minnesota State Colleges and Universities system headquarters in Saint Paul, Minnesota. Per the Wikipedia guidance on Conflicts of Interest WP:COI you must disclose your relationship, avoid editing or creating articles related to you and your circle, your organization, its competitors, projects or products, and propose changes here on the talk page of the article as an edit request. Please post back here if you have further questions or points.

Recent news that the MNSCU Board had voted to change the branding and name of the System to just "Minnesota State" was published by a wide range of newspapers that are reliable sources. These include the Saint Paul Pioneer Press, the Associated Press and the Mankato Free Press which are all established newspapers. As described on the Minnesota State University, Mankato article, it is commonly referred to as Minnesota State across many media sources including those mentioned above. In fact the Saint Paul Pioneer Press and Mankato Free Press expressly mentioned the inherent similarity between the proposed rebranding and the long existing branding for Minnesota State University, Mankato including their athletics the Minnesota State Mavericks. Here are the sources cited:

It is true that the name change was recent so I will revise the lead with the references to offer a compromise until we hear more. It does seem like this issue is somewhat controversial and that there is some significant opposition to it because it appears confusing to the average reader. Randomeditor1000 (talk) 22:02, 27 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, the rebranding is controversial and has already caused confusion, but it needs to be made clear MnSCU does not have a flagship school, the school in Mankato is not the only one to use Minnesota State part of its name, but isn't the same institution as the others that do, and the Mavericks are not the symbol for the entire system. Jonathunder (talk) 22:49, 27 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Jonathunder, first the issue of branding. Based on numerous references (over 15) that were cited in the Talk Page for the Northern Sun Intercollegiate Conference, Minnesota State University, Mankato is the only institution that is commonly referred to as "Minnesota State". This is factual and not really a topic of debate, regardless of the 'official' position of System is.
With regards to the issue of the term Flagship, your opinion is that they are not quote 'representative of the state' is not backed by a source. Rather several sources and facts back the designation on wikipedia as meaning the largest institution within a group (eg literally a flagship). This is to say that it has the most number of programs, the widest curriculum, the largest endowment, one of the oldest in the system and combined with other criteria such as references in the form secondary sources such as news articles in the Mankato Free Press, the Saint Cloud Times as well as supporting sources such as the noteable blog of system critic under 'The Freedom Rings blog' make the designation appropriate. Another analogous example is that of the University of Idaho.Randomeditor1000 (talk) 23:46, 27 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
That's original research. Show me a source that says in so many words the flagship is in Mankato. The oldest in the system, by the way, is Winona State, established in 1858. I could make just as strong a case they are the flagship, if the system had one. Winona is also home to Minnesota State College – Southeast Technical, which does in fact use "Minnesota State College" prominently in its marketing. Jonathunder (talk) 23:49, 27 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
That's WP:POV to say that the information isn't already defined in the template for the universities, the colleges, the ranking box information, the noteable information. It's all right there - identified for each of the members. Are you suggesting for example, that North Dakota State University, Colorado State University and similar institution pages should not be identified with the denotation flagship? Because they aren't 'officially' state designated as flagships either. This was not a criteria listed on the flagship page nor a general reference to it's simple meaning. I'm aware that Winona State University is the oldest member of the system, thank you.
From the flagship page "The phrase flagship institution or flagship university may be applied to an individual school or campus within each state system. The College Board, for example, defines flagship universities as the best-known institutions in the state, noting that they were generally the first to be established and are frequently the largest and most selective, as well as the most research-intensive public universities.", "The meaning as a metaphor for the largest, most selective...". So, no I don't believe you could make the arguement that Winona State University is the largest, most selective. That it has a significantly smaller campus size, smaller student body, smaller endowment and fewer research expenditures would definitively make it not a candidate for the designation. The fact that there are numerous Minnesota State Colleges is irrelevant to this topic as there are more than 1 by the way. The branding "Minnesota State College" is not equal to branding "Minnesota State". As an example, North Dakota State College of Science is not confused or known as being similarly branded as North Dakota State University which is commonly known as "North Dakota State". If you look at for example, the Northern Sun Intercollegiate Conference official page it shows "Minnesota State" reffering to Minnnesota State University, Mankato. MSU-Moorhead for Minnesota State University Moorhead. See http://www.northernsun.org/index.aspx?path=football& .
From the Mankato Free Press article reference above "It is one of the flagship institutions in the Minnesota State Colleges and Universities system, boasts more than than 14,000 students and has developed signature pro­grams that have brought notoriety to the state, region and city." - https://www.mnsu.edu/news/read/?id=old-1207229736&paper=topstories, under the notable critic at http://www.letfreedomringblog.com/?p=19814 as well as The Saint Cloud Times article http://www.stcloudstate.edu/news/scsunow/default.asp?storyID=20073, another note from: http://spokesman-recorder.com/2012/02/29/msr-readers-make-your-own-judgment-on-the-state-of-st-cloud-state/. There are certainly references in addition to the basic encyclopedic data. Even the Encyclopaedia Britannica notes that "It is the most comprehensive of the seven universities in the Minnesota State University system." http://www.britannica.com/topic/Minnesota-State-University-Mankato. Randomeditor1000 (talk) 00:10, 28 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Saying Mankato is "one of the flagship institutions" is not saying it is the flagship. In fact, it says quite the opposite. Jonathunder (talk) 00:16, 28 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Okay so North Dakota State University and Colorado State University are NOT leaders in their own systems because they are quote "one of the flagships" of their states? All information taken together using the definition from the flagship article is the method with which wikipedia had identified the notation on the individual pages for each university. The reason that it is referred to as "Minnesota State" by the media, in sports as well as other sources (listed in the 15 mentioned above) which is an illustration to the meaning of 'best known' by the fact that is the second largest university in the state by enrollment, one of the most selective amongst it's ilk, etc etc. I understand your point but respectfully disagree on that issue, the naming issue I believe has been addressed already Randomeditor1000 (talk) 00:18, 28 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Mankato Free Press Article: Davenport: MSU excelling as flagship university : "A combination of student success rates, faculty awards, accreditations and "market indicators" show that MSU is excelling in its role as MnSCU's flagship institution, he added." http://www.mankatofreepress.com/news/davenport-msu-excelling-as-flagship-university/article_4d67315a-44f3-11e5-ade1-07b0f10851f2.html Randomeditor1000 (talk) 03:27, 28 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed changes[edit]

Greetings! I hope I’m going about this in the correction fashion. I work for Minnesota State Colleges and Universities in the marketing and communications department and am reaching out to propose the following edits to this wiki page:

- Change the page title to Minnesota State Colleges and Universities by removing the word “System” since it’s not part of the organization's name

- For the feature box, there's a new Interim Chancellor (Devinder Malhotra), as well as a new logo (which can be provided) and colors (blue #003c66 and green#00a353)

- Replace the first intro paragraph to:

Minnesota State Colleges and Universities - previously abbreviated as MnSCU and recently rebranded as Minnesota State [1] - comprises of 30 state colleges and 7 state universities with 54 campuses throughout Minnesota. Minnesota State is the largest higher education system in Minnesota (separate from the University of Minnesota system) and the fourth largest in the United States, educating over 375,000 students annually.[2] Governed by a 15-member board of trustees appointed by the governor, the board has policy responsibility for system planning, academic programs, fiscal management, personnel, admissions requirements, tuition and fees, and rules and regulations. The Minnesota State system office is located in the Wells Fargo Place building in Saint Paul, Minnesota.

- Remove the following paragraph since the branding references are cited in the first paragraph above and the references about Minnesota State University, Mankato are opinion pieces:

In 2016, the Board of Trustees approved a rebranding of the system to the shortened Minnesota State, this change was met with criticism as this is also the nickname commonly attributed to Minnesota State University, Mankato.[7][8] The change affected branding but did not alter the legal name of the organization that is identified in state statute.[9] Commonly the system is now being referenced in media as the Minnesota State System, while the institution in Mankato is being referenced as Minnesota State.

More changes may follow if this is the process that should be followed. Please advise. Thanks!

204.77.49.113 (talk) 23:04, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@204.77.49.113:
I appreciate your interest in editing this article. I recently have updated the official seal and colors, it looks User:Corkythehornetfan revised the official logo.
For naming, Wikipedia:Article titles editors typically use the commonly understood name for the article title. This is to say that we do not necessarily use the Wikipedia:Official names for all article titles. In this case we also follow consistency and recognizability as important tenants. The group which we are describing is not a singular it is a system. Therefor we use system in the title and spell out what is in the system (e.g. colleges and universities). It would be consistent to use this approach as this is the same style used for the University of Minnesota (see University of Minnesota system) and also Wisconsin (with the University of Wisconsin system and University of Wisconsin/University of Wisconsin-Madison)). It wouldn't differentiate very well to the average reader the differences between private and public universities if we were to change to just Minnesota State Colleges and Universities - that wouldn't make sense and is not precise. Additionally, your branding guidelines (https://ctsdocs.s3.amazonaws.com/brand_identity_manual_campuses.pdf) specifically state that the legal/official name has not changed - just the branding. So why are you suggesting that 'system' isn't a part of the name? That's a confusing/conflicting statement.
Regarding the proposed introductory paragraph, I would not concur with all of the opening but I did revise portions of it to your proposed opening. Historically Minnesota State has referred to Minnesota State University, Mankato. Many primary and secondary sources refer to it as such. I understand that the System Office recently was directed by the Board of Trustees to re-brand the system office. But that does not change WP:COMMONNAME or that history. With many references including national media such as ESPN, at this point it would be inaccurate to state that Mankato is not referred to as Minnesota State. In that view, and with respect to my previous point about article naming, it does make sense that the organization would be referred to as Minnesota State System or similar. In fact the Minneapolis StarTribune referenced this just recently at (http://www.startribune.com/regents-should-ensure-u-goes-easy-on-out-of-state-tuition-hikes/451516683/). Not sure why this is a sticking point for your organization. It is confusing to identify an entire system as a singular.
In addition, I think it might be helpful to take a look at WP:PAID and WP:COI guidance as it will be helpful in understanding Wikipedia guidance and policies with respect to editors who are representatives of organizations or are paid. Randomeditor1000 (talk) 14:37, 20 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Mankato is one institution of the Minnesota State system. It would be confusing to call either entity just "Minnesota State" but I see no room for confusion in Minnesota State Colleges and Universities. That can only mean the system as a whole. Jonathunder (talk) 19:05, 20 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Hi @Jonathunder:, with respect to MS we were discussing the second paragraph in the lead that speaks to the common use of it as a nickname similar to U of M, Minnesota, North Dakota State, North Dakota etc. There are some pretty clear references that use that term for Mankato. There was some history behind that as well, part of which includes the impetus for the creation of Southwest Minnesota State University. I wasn't suggesting we move either article. I agree that there wouldn't be confusion in moving to Minnesota State Colleges and Universities system. Randomeditor1000 (talk) 12:40, 23 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ "Goodbye, MnSCU; hello, Minnesota State".
  2. ^ "About Minnesota State".

Inclusion of a map[edit]

Please include a map that contains all campuses.2603:8081:160A:BE2A:6410:2FE2:EF18:42CE (talk) 14:31, 24 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

DAVANTA VALLIANT LLLC LUCID RIVIANA ELECTRIC CARS AND SAMSUNG TEC , BATES ELECTRICITY Incorporated , copyrighted by DAVANTA1 LAMARR VALLIANT 02 1096 96 the business . = = = = = = =[edit]

DAVANTA VALLIANT LLLC LUCID RIVIANA ELECTRIC CARS AND SAMSUNG TEC , BATES ELECTRICITY Incorporated , copyrighted by DAVANTA1 LAMARR VALLIANT 02 1096 96 the business . = = = = = = = = = Investors in Saint Paul Minnesota 2601:444:8480:5D60:2D3C:95D4:D855:E48 (talk) 06:18, 30 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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