Talk:Modern Scots

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Highland Dialects[edit]

Is one to assume from the article and map that there are no Scots dialects in the Highlands? Cassandra. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.5.8.153 (talk) 18:36, 30 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Correct, it isn't native to most of the Highlands or Western Isles. Mutt Lunker (talk) 22:29, 30 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

State Language? Not really.[edit]

"During the 15th and 16th centuries, when Scots was a state language, the Makars had a loose spelling system separate from that of English".

Just about everything possible is wrong with this sentence.

The records of the Scottish parliament for the period make it explicitly clear that the language was English. 'Makar' is an English word meaning 'poet' and only became specifically (and romantically) associated with Scotland in the 19th century. The Scottish Makars explicitly wrote that they were writing in the English language. There was no standard spelling of English anywhere in the 15th and 16th centuries, there was thus no standards to be different from. Cassandra — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.74.244.8 (talk) 18:59, 5 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The Scots language was indeed regarded by its speakers in the 15th & early 16th centuries as a variety of English, much as Scottish Gaelic could be regarded as a variety of "Gaelic" alongside Irish and Manx at the time. Gaelic still preserves this concept by referring to English as "Beurla" (theoretically Beurla Shasainn - English of England) and Scots as "Beurla Gallda" - Lowland English, while Gaelic would be Gàidhlig na h-Alba (Gaelic of Scotland), Irish is Gàidhlig na h-Èireann (Gaelic of Ireland), Manx is Gàidhlig Eilean Mhannain and so on. These are still regarded as distinct languages in Gaelic, despite being varieties of wider language families. That said, the concept of Scots as "Scots" or "Scottis" & "Scotch" rather than "Inglis", and Gaelic as Gaelic or "Erse" and "Irish" paradoxically seems to kick in after the 16th century when Scotland and England moved closer together in varying degrees of political union under the Stewarts (esp. towards the end of the century). I would argue the sense of Scots being a different language to English was strengthened by the imposition of the English language in a place of power and privilege over Scots, especially following the Reformation and the adoption of English over Scots by writers such as John Knox and later William Alexander, James VI and so on. In a sense, it was only after Scots-speaking intellectuals were confronted with the impulse to switch to English (which was very different at the time) and adopt Anglicisms that awareness of the language's separateness became commonplace. I believe a writer responding to Knox referred to Knox's English as "Southren" (Southern), which shows a sense of it being different, if not necessarily the same as "English" as we would understand it. Finally, I would argue that even if writers did not regard Scots as being a separate language to English, it was still sufficiently different that we can regard the two as different from a modern perspective - so when we claim Scots was a "state language" it isn't strictly true, but it was certainly the language of the Kingdom's intellectual elite and court at the time. --86.141.190.206 (talk) 19:08, 22 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

In the 20th century history seems to have been extensively rewritten. In fact no one had ever seriously suggested that 'Scots' was anything but English until 1808 when John Jamieson made the claim that it had once-upon-a-time been an historic language distinct from English. Scholars with a little more knowledge of history than Jamieson however soon pointed out that what he called Scots was actually just Northumbrian English, an historic variety of the English language (alongside, Mercian, Kentish and Wessex) and once spoken from south of the Humber to the Firth of Forth. All the varieties of English were simply precursors of Modern English. Cassandra — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.145.170.147 (talk) 15:19, 15 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified (February 2018)[edit]

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contemporary publications[edit]

Could the article get some examples of contemporary publications (less than 10 years old, say) written in this language, if there are any? I see there is a Scots Wikipedia and at first thought it was a parody. ScotsteXt (site from external links) has some older literature examples which are nice. Scots Language Centre (if not a prank) seems like an effort to spread a movement, which is fine-- I'm just asking how much traction the movement has. The current Scottish Parliament afaict conducts business in English and Gaelic but not Scots. Are there any current newspapers, fiction or nonfiction books, that sort of thing? Thanks. 173.228.123.121 (talk) 19:37, 4 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Some are listed here but little, if any, from the last 10 years; I don't know how old the list is. There are comparatively few publications for adults published exclusively in Scots but many that employ both Scots and Scottish English. There has been a real expansion in Scots literature for kids, for instance from Itchy Coo. There may be some recent poetry collections entirely in Scots but most will include some poems in English or poems that code switch. But'n'Ben A-Go-Go is the only fairly recent novel that comes to mind that is entirely in Scots but the bulk of the contemporary writers listed at Literature in modern Scotland and at Scots-language_literature#Twentieth-century_renaissance will employ at least some Scots in dialogue, some a considerable amount and some in at least part of the narrative, again some a more considerable amount. Most Scots speakers routinely and continuously code switch and the mixed nature of the literature reflects this, as does the tendency to speak in Scots to a much greater degree than one would put to paper. Mutt Lunker (talk) 20:49, 4 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks! Literature in modern Scotland and Scots-language literature are informative. I didn't notice those articles earlier. 173.228.123.121 (talk) 22:58, 4 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Phonology[edit]

Phonology should have consonant table and vowel table. IdkGoodName (talk) 20:21, 29 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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