Talk:Montana–Montana State football rivalry

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Untitled[edit]

I got rid of the thing about Brawl of the Wild rarely being used, becuase I know for a fact that that is not true. It is usd in numerous records and official documents. Also people on the UM and MSU campuses do refer to the rivalry as "Brawl of the Wild". I am the original creator of this page and think I ought to know what I am talking about.

Melo15


Instead of saying "has won almost every" state how many it won out of how many played. "Many people think" is weasely. The article states "the state literally shuts down.... this is nonsense. Jerry lavoie 21:47, 31 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Fair use rationale for Image:Griz logo.jpg[edit]

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Fair use rationale for Image:Fb logo2.gif[edit]

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BetacommandBot (talk) 19:22, 22 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Image copyright problem with File:Montana State Bobcats.png[edit]

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Cat/Griz or Griz/Cat[edit]

There should be no fan affiliation with which phrase they use. Yes it is true big Grizzly fans affectionately call it the Griz/Cat game but most of the state calls it the Cat/Griz game.

RustyB31 9-6-09 —Preceding unsigned comment added by RustyB31 (talk • contribs) 19:20, 6 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Griz/Cat or Cat/Griz should be hyphanated, not separated by a virgule. The preference is with the fan, but listen to how each sounds: kat-griz, and griz-skat. OGriz (talk) 18:06, 24 September 2009 (UTC)oGriz[reply]

The overwhelming majority of people use Cat/Griz as it sounds better. Those who use Griz/Cat use it infrequent and as a resistance to the populous. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.145.49.159 (talk) 20:00, 28 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Name[edit]

I believe a descriptive name like those used for most of the other articles in Category:College football rivalries in the United States will be more appropriate here. While the nickname "Brawl of the Wild" is in use, it is demonstrably not the most common way of referring to this rivalry. It's not even the most common of the nicknames. It returns only about 22 Google Books hits (several of which are Wikipedia ripoffs) and 62 in the Google News archives, compared to 36 Gbooks hits and 265 Google News archive hits for "Cat-Griz". There are another 70 hits in the Google News archives for "Griz-Cat". There are "Montana-Montana State"+football returns 28 Gbooks hits and over 2000 Google News hits, not to mention searches for related variants like "Montana State-Montana"+football. This suggests that many or most of the sources for this game don't use any of the nicknames. A descriptive title like Montana–Montana State football rivalry would follow use in the sources more closely, on top of being clearer and more precise for readers and more in line with related articles. If no one objects I'll be moving the article.Cúchullain t/c 21:00, 23 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Done.--Cúchullain t/c 20:44, 31 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Non-free file problems with File:Montana State Bobcats Logo.svg[edit]

File:Montana State Bobcats Logo.svg is currently tagged as non-free and has been identified as possibly not being in compliance with the non-free content policy. For specific information on the problems with the file and how they can be fixed, please check the message at File:Montana State Bobcats Logo.svg. For further questions and comments, please use the non-free content review page. -- Toshio Yamaguchi 12:33, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]


Brawl of the Wild[edit]

Okay, someone from out of state decided that they should rename our rivalry because it wasn't clear to them. They don't like the name because it didn't receive enough Google hits. Forget the fact that those hits include every newspaper in Montana and the two universities involved in the competition. Clearly they don't understand that the main reason the name was chosen was because of the dispute over whether to call it Cat-Griz or Griz-Cat. Thus, a more neutral name was chosen when the trophy was created. Oh, I guess we shouldn't mention the name of the trophy either because it won't have many Google book hits either. I'm changing it back. And, the crap about it being more in line with other football rivalries is crap, too. Dsetay (talk) 23:27, 23 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia article titles are determined by what's the common name in the sources for the subject, and what will be natural and recognizable to readers. In this case, as I explained, most sources appear to use descriptive names; the nicknames aren't all that common, and "Brawl of the Wild" is the least common. We can mention it in the text if you we find a reliable source for it, but it's not a good name for the article.
Additionally, copy-and paste moves are deprecated as they destroy the edit history. If you really think it should be moved, you can compile your evidence and start a move request. However, I don't imagine that would find consensus for the reasons I gave. At any rate, what this article really needs is a total rewrite with sources.--Cúchullain t/c 01:10, 24 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Again, cut-and-paste is not an acceptable way to move an article. If you really think it should be moved, a requested move discussion is the way to go. Please discuss the problem on the talk page.--Cúchullain t/c 20:57, 30 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    • Please forgive my ignorance. Bill from Florida has done a Google Book search on a Montana rivalry game and came up with ironclad reasoning. How could I possibly protest?

I humble request that you also please explain to

All Montana's largest newspapers:
The two universities involved
and other insignificant places such as

Sports Illustrated, CBS Sports, Fox News, and ABC.

That they are mistaken.
And, certainly don't forget to tell Root Sports who has advertised its hosting of the game as such the past two years [1][2], The Big Sky Conference, and the NCAA that they are dumb asses and should correct themselves because a guy from Florida did a Google search and found it lacking.

Oh, and did you watch the Iron Bowl today? Idiots have no idea that their name and the 30+ others on Wikipedia don't meet the standards of Cuchullain. And, I'm sure you'll be the first to correct the University of North Florida Ospreys page that mistakenly says that its rivalry game with Jacksonville University is called the River City Rumble. Everyone knows that it is properly called the University of North Florida - Jacksonville University Basketball Rivalry. I'm sure you'll fix that right away. It gets virtually no Google hits; I'm beginning to think that it doesn't exist. Thanks. Dsetay (talk) 03:19, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

UPDATE! Turns out that Sports Illustrated and ESPN are both really, really stupid. They both ranked "Brawl of the Wild" as the 4th greatest rivalry nickname in the country. [3], [4]. Morons! They clearly haven't done enough research to realize that North Florida's finest has determined that no one uses the name.Dsetay (talk) 03:30, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Drop the personal comments and indignant attitude and read the civility policy. Comments like yours do nothing to make your case.
As I explained above (twice), it's not acceptable to move articles via copy-and-paste. It destroys the edit history, which is necessary for attribution, and it's even more of a problem considering you just left this page standing with duplicate content. There's no reason to blow up about this simply because you haven't learned the process.
As for the "Brawl of the Wild" nickname, was there something confusing to you in the statement "We can mention it in the text if you we find a reliable source for it"?
I already explained why the nickname isn't a good title for the article, as it doesn't appear to be the most common name for the subject. If you think it should be moved, as I explained, the correct procedure will be a requested move. To gain any traction there, though, you'll need to present actual evidence that "Brawl of the Wild" is the most common name (more common than a descriptive name, more common than "Cat-Griz", etc) and that it better fits the other article title criteria (that it's more natural and recognizable to readers, including non-fanboys). If you start a move request, know that despite your claim, there has definitely been a trend to move away from nicknames for college rivalry articles, and use descriptive names instead.[5][6][7][8][9][10] Also be advised that bringing uncivil language to a move request is more likely to get you blocked than to convince anyone else that you're right.--Cúchullain t/c 23:07, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I've added the "Brawl of the Wild" nickname with a source, and a source for the trophy. You're welcome.--Cúchullain t/c 23:27, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]


Citations for "BotW" including both schools, the conf, an alumni association, and various media.

We use the name of the rivalry when there is this level of support as seen in the parent Cat of Category:College football rivalries in the United States. UW Dawgs (talk) 19:51, 21 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 21 November 2016[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (non-admin closure) JudgeRM (talk to me) 02:58, 29 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Montana–Montana State football rivalry → Brawl of the Wild – per WP:COMMONNAME as shown at Talk:Montana–Montana State football rivalry#Brawl of the Wild UW Dawgs (talk) 20:04, 21 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

This is a contested technical request (permalink). Steel1943 (talk) 21:17, 21 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Moved to full discussion for proper advertisement on WP:RM for community discussion (in case community discussion leads to a different result.) Steel1943 (talk) 21:17, 21 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@UW Dawgs: This request had been moved to full discussion. Steel1943 (talk) 21:17, 21 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Also, pinging Cuchullain and Dsetay since they participated in the linked section mentioned in this discussion. Steel1943 (talk) 21:20, 21 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. I don't have my laptop available right now to copy the evidence easily, but my feeling is that the earlier findings still hold up. While the "brawl" name is established, it does not appear to be the most WP:COMMONNAME of all other nicknames like Cat-Griz and constructions like Montana-Montana State, Montana-Montana State game, etc. In cases like this, the general consensus and practice has been to use descriptive titles that reflect the way third-party sources usually refer to the subjects, and which are far more WP:RECOGNIZABLE to readers who aren't fans of the teams.--Cúchullain t/c 05:16, 22 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
"Brawl of the Wild" Montana returns 75 Google Books hits compared to 160 for "Cat-Griz", 25 for "Griz-Cat", 448 for "Montana-Montana State" football and hits for other variants. Google News suggests that "Brawl of the Wild" is becoming more common, though it's less common than "Cat-Griz" and descriptive variants. In other words, most reliable sources for the game don't use the name. I think it will be better to stick with the recognizable descriptive title.--Cúchullain t/c 16:43, 23 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

References[edit]

The fourth reference is incorrect. The post was written by Jon Kasper, not John Kasper. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:580:10A:8CB2:1B3:7493:F7F7:1369 (talk) 15:27, 17 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Recent edits to this article[edit]

@Justtruthandfacts:

So far, all of your edits have focused on this article. Unfortunately, most of these edits contain spelling or factual errors as explained at User talk:Justtruthandfacts. Being a new editor can be hard. How can we help you with these issues? UW Dawgs (talk) 22:50, 11 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Cites[edit]

The entire section headed "Notable games" is entirely missing any citations, and the game descriptions thereof get longer and longer the more recent the game. Kudos to anyone who tackles cleaning this up. Because, not me. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SelfCorrection (talk • contribs) 07:43, 17 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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