Talk:Morgana (Merlin)

Suggested move/name change

For the sake of consistency, I propose that this page be moved to "Morgana (Merlin character)" so as to match the other two articles regarding characters from Merlin, Merlin (Merlin character) and Arthur Pendragon (Merlin character). Unless I see some opposition, I will interpret such silence as tacit approval and shall proceed with the move in about a week or so.
• H☼ωdΘesI†fl∉∈ ^{KLAT} • 16:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

 Done • H☼ωdΘesI†fl∉∈ ^{KLAT} • 01:59, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

Reverted, no need for additional disambiguation, moved other articles to the appropriate name per WP:TV-NC as well. Only Merlin (Merlin character) need the extra dab, because Merlin (Merlin) isn't done, and Merlin (character) links to the dab page. _Xeworlebi ^(talk) 12:24, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

Redirect/Merge

This article has no assertion of notability. I attempted to redirect this to List of Merlin characters but was reverted because there was "no assertion of non-notability" (emphasis added). There are no sources for this article, let alone third-party ones. If sources can be found, I'd be willing to support it as an article, but I doubt there any sources to support it. Harry Blue5 (talk) 19:11, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

You redirected it and that was reverted, clearly someone disagreed with your view. If you want to see this article deleted go through the proper channels and nominate it for deletion for the reasons you have mentioned. _Xeworlebi ^(talk) 19:19, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

I don't think it should be deleted, so I started this discussion. It just shouldn't be an actual article. Harry Blue5 (talk) 19:53, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

Although I personally cringe to see articles containing lots of information being deleted or threatened to be so (such as this one), which would instinctively make me agree with Xeworlebi, I kinda have to agree with Harry Blue5 in that this is an encyclopedia and, as is most obvious, this page has absolutely no sources to back up its content, even though we all know it to be mostly correct. I believe the "notability" isn't the most critical issue regarding this article: after all, Morgana is one of the main characters from a TV show millions of people watch... The way I see it, the problem is that, in fact, "Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information" that furthermore cannot be verified—and, in this case, amounts to not much more than original research. We must all admit that, up until now, the article has only being used to dump plot-related information on a character. Unless this changes, it would be hard to reasonably argue for keeping it as an actual article rather than simply merging it all with the List of Merlin characters, which is as painfully devoid of sources and references as this one... If we were to play straight by the rules (policies and guidelines), we would have to trash everything that is unsourced—the characters' articles and the List itself—and I know of editor factions who revel in such a logic, but I personally don't. A sound compromise would be to cram it all in the List for the moment. Thus, I'm in favour of a merge.
• H☼ωdΘesI†fl∉∈ ^{KLAT} • 04:59, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

For the record, I'm not against the redirect. It was reverted so the next step should be a deletion discussion, I've seen edit wars around this, and just wanted to nip this one in the bud before it happened. Now it turns out the user wants to merge this article with the main article, a discussion here is fine. I would like to point out that redirecting an article is not merging, which is sometimes used as a sneaky way to bypass deletion procedure. If this article is to be merged, actually merge it, don't simply redirect it. Also of note is that notability isn't obtained simply by existing, it is obtained by reliable sources covering the subject, which this article lacks. _Xeworlebi ^(talk) 12:30, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

I changed it to a Merging discussion to a) clear up any confusion about whether this was a discussion b) avoid the deletion process because this really shouldn't be outright deleted c) upon reflection, the list only has one sentence on the character, so some of the information in this article could be worth merging. Harry Blue5 (talk) 12:58, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

If there's nothing to merge, don't start a merging discussion, nominate it for deletion. _Xeworlebi ^(talk) 13:10, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

I just said there was some stuff to merge. As opposed to nothing. Harry Blue5 (talk) 15:56, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

Yes, I can read. I just made the observation that if there is nothing to merge, deletion is the correct approach, which was you initial move by wholly redirecting the article and merging nothing, effectively deleting the article but bypassing deletion procedure. And yes, I know you changed your mind. _Xeworlebi ^(talk) 16:08, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

I was intending to look through the history and salvage some useful stuff and merge it later. Harry Blue5 (talk) 18:57, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

The content of this article should be merged and the page should be deleted afterwards, as I believe leaving it as a redirection page might be totally useless (but that's just my humble opinion). Whether the page is left as a redirect or not, I care more or less, but what's important is that the content be salvaged and dropped in the List.
• H☼ωdΘesI†fl∉∈ ^{KLAT} • 04:14, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

If this article is merged, don't we have to keep this article as attribution, or something similar? Harry Blue5 (talk) 13:00, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

Well, I just read the Merging page and it says that we have to leave the article as a redirection so as to make known when and where the merge happened. There's nothing more to it about the "attribution" part. It's only to leave a proper trace for future editors to understand what went on.
• H☼ωdΘesI†fl∉∈ ^{KLAT} • 00:40, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

According to the templates left behind on Talk:List of Merlin characters, it is used to serve attribution and must not be deleted. Or something. Harry Blue5 (talk) 11:07, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

Look, I've been going over the other characters' articles that have all been rather bluntly transformed into redirects and am starting to think that, just like what we intend to do with this article, their content should be salvaged (from their past history) and added to the List of Merlin characters page, to be edited and trimmed down eventually. Thus, instead of only merging "Morgana", the same could be done for "Merlin", "Arthur Pendragon" and "Uther Pendragon" in order to fully close that chapter in the history of Merlin's presence on Wikipedia. I've been reading the "Split proposal" discussion on Talk:List of Merlin characters and, well, we would be undoing what had been decided then. Anybody for or against it?

And as for the attribution template, since the characters' articles have been purged, I guess they are not needed anymore.
• H☼ωdΘesI†fl∉∈ ^{KLAT} • 20:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)