Talk:New Kadampa

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"The NKT-IKBU is a tradition of global Buddhism and arose due to Geshe Kelsang Gyatso being requested to go to England by his Spiritual Guide Kyabje Trijang Dorjechang to teach Westerners. Geshe Kelsang, with the agreement of his Spiritual Teacher, originated a new presentation of Dharma (Buddha's Teachings) suited to Western practitioners" - This cannot be right, as Geshe Kelsang went over as a teacher for the FPMT, who maintained Conishead Priory. Also, by the time of the beginning of the NKT-IKBU around 1990, Trijang Rinpoche had been dead for nine years. Moreover, this has nothing to do with the New Kadampa - which is a synonym for the Gelugpa. (20040302 16:42, 10 September 2005 (UTC))

What I say is correct. NKT-IKBU did come about as a result of Geshe Kelsang coming to the West, even though initially it was a request from Lama Yeshe through Trijang Rinpoche. Furthermore, Geshe-la had a long meeting with Trijang Rinpoche before his death, the result of which was a different approach to teaching Dharma, and eventually led to the creation of NKT-IKBU. However, I accept that this article is not about NKT-IKBU. My reason for making the change was the incorrect statement "The NKT/IKBU is a modern movement, founded on the basis of a disagreement with mainstream Tibetan Buddhism", and this has been satisfied. Gen Kelsang Pagpa, 21:50, 10 September 2005 (UTC)

Well, we have enough to discuss elsewhere... However, though I don't doubt that the NKT-IKBU arose as a consequence of Geshe Kelsang coming to the West, I do doubt that this was the intention of Lama Yeshe (on behalf of whom Trijang Rinpoche made the suggestion). It is highly unlikely that Trijang Rinpoche would have suggested that Geshe Kelsang should create his own religion!

From what I can understand, Geshe Kelsang had little choice than to EITHER back down from the requests of Sera, Ganden Tripa, the Dalai Lama, and many of his colleagues, OR to separate himself from the Tibetans more or less completely. I guess the Tibetans underestimated his resolve - and were shocked at GKG's rewriting of his personal past. (Eg. I have met independant eyewitnesses who sat near enough to him to see him partake in Kalacakra initiations given by the 14th Dalai Lama) Having been expelled from Sera, and being unwilling to back down, he had to choose whether or not to give up his students, or to create a new school. I cannot see what other options he had available (Though I am interested in your opinion). Therefore, I feel it is actually fair to say that the founding of NKT-IKBU was as much a consequence of a disagreement with mainstream Tib. Buddhism as it was to do with GKG travelling to the West. In which case, we could easily amend the article to state that "The NKT/IKBU is a modern movement, founded on the consequences of GKG coming to the west, and due to a substantial disagreement with mainstream Tibetan Buddhism" - But as you say, such description is not apt on a page which discusses a synonym for the Geluk.

BTW, I am not sure I understand what you mean by "a different approach to teaching Dharma" - After all, the purport of Buddhist upaya is any approach, according to context. So what do you mean by a 'different approach'? (20040302 01:32, 11 September 2005 (UTC))

PS As long as you log in, you can get an automatice signature with a timestamp just by typing in four tildes like : ~~~~ - this will produce your name and timestamp as soon as you submit your entry. :-) (20040302)

Is the NKT really a "split" from the Gelug tradition?

After all, the New Kadampa practitioners consider themselves to be Gelugpas. I think it is more accurate to say that the NKT was created as an indepdendent Buddhist organization with no political affiliations, not even with the Tibetan exile government. Emptymountains (talk) ??:??, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

But against a government is also a kind of political affiliation, no?rudy (talk) 20:33, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

To illustrate the consequences of what you are saying, please consider the following analogy: If abstaining from politics is itself a political statement, then renouncing samsara is itself a samsaric desire. Please show me where the NKT is against the Tibetan government-in-exile itself.

Equananimously yours, Emptymountains (talk) 15:03, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

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