Talk:New Zealand at the 2008 Rugby League World Cup

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Not a tour[edit]

Rugby league tour articles contain the word 'tour' in the title. See contents of Category:New Zealand national rugby league team tours and Category:Rugby league tours of Australia. This article is clearly out of place there. I don't understand this compulsion to put it in categories it has no business being in.--Gibson Flying V (talk) 03:22, 26 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I completely disagree that the article's name is relevant to the article's categorisation, and that assertion is not backed up in Wikipedia:Categorization. If you look in both Category:New Zealand national rugby league team tours and Category:Rugby league tours of Australia, you will see other articles that do not include "tour" in their name.
Instead, the content of the article is important. This article is clearly about a tour by the New Zealand rugby league team and so is correctly categorised. Mattlore (talk) 04:26, 26 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, there are other articles in those categories that are out of place too. That does not strengthen the case for including this one or them. According to Wikipedia:Categorization#Articles: "A central concept used in categorizing articles is that of the defining characteristics of a subject of the article. A defining characteristic is one that reliable sources commonly and consistently define the subject as having". Do reliable sources commonly and consistently characterize New Zealand at the 2008 Rugby League World Cup as a tour?
In trying to understand your stance on this, I'm guessing you probably agree with me that it's a bummer there are no more rugby league tours. So maybe it bothers you that Category:New Zealand national rugby league team tours and Category:Rugby league tours of Australia won't have any more new articles added to them for the foreseeable future. But right now rugby league tours are a thing of the past whether we like it or not, and I'd remind you that there are still plenty of actual rugby league tour articles that can be written to populate those categories instead of squeezing in others that clearly don't belong.--Gibson Flying V (talk) 05:15, 26 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
What is your definition of a tour? For me, it is a squad, traveling together to a different place and playing matches. The Kiwis went on tour last year to the United Kingdom, and are doing so again this year. The fact that they are playing in a tournament in 2016 does not mean it is not a tour. The New Zealand Rugby League recognises these as tours, for example the Kiwis roll of honor states "* 2010 Four Nations ** 2011 Four Nations *** 2014 Four Nations All toured but did not play" besides players that did not play in test matches during those respective tours[1]
I recognise there may be a higher threshold to be called a "Kangaroo tour", as that seems to carry a weightier meaning in Australia, but that is not what we are discussing here.
The Category:New Zealand national rugby league team tours states it is for "International tours that have involved the New Zealand Kiwis." and this page fits into that criteria. Mattlore (talk) 08:13, 26 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Rather than what our definitions of a tour are, I think what should be more concerning is the absence of an answer to my question above about how Wikipedia:Categorization#Articles relates to this article.--Gibson Flying V (talk) 04:43, 27 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I thought I did address your question, and I simply don't understand how Category:New Zealand national rugby league team tours and Category:Rugby league tours of Australia could not be defining characteristics of this article - one about a New Zealand rugby league team touring Australia to play in the World Cup. Is it verifiable? Yes. Is it a neutral point of view? Yes. Is it defining? Yes. Clearly we aren't going to get anywhere here, so I shall ask the RL project page for some more views. Mattlore (talk) 06:10, 27 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The question was, "Do reliable sources commonly and consistently characterize New Zealand at the 2008 Rugby League World Cup as a tour?".--Gibson Flying V (talk) 12:28, 27 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
You seem to be deliberately ignoring the source I included above and shifting your arguments every time you post. Today for example the NZRL published an article referring to the upcoming "Four Nations tour to England",[1] so yes - trips like this to tournaments are referred to as tours by reliable sources. Mattlore (talk) 00:30, 28 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I asked a yes-or-no question that went unanswered. I then tried to return you to that exact same question in both of my subsequent posts. So remarks like "You seem to be deliberately... shifting your arguments every time you post" aren't helpful to you or anyone else. Regarding the source you included, it is abundantly clear that is not proof that reliable sources commonly and consistently characterize New Zealand at the 2008 Rugby League World Cup as a tour, so even if I did ignore it I would be perfectly correct to do so since it makes no mention of this article's subject. But rather than accusing you of repeatedly ignoring my question and deliberately changing the topic to the Four Nations with every post, I'll just ask a third time for an answer.--Gibson Flying V (talk) 01:51, 28 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

As explained above, yes. We are no closer to achieving a consensus, and as you know I've already asked the project for more input, so lets wait for more points of view. Mattlore (talk) 02:35, 28 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
OK, I'm sure you already know that if the answer is yes, reliable sources do commonly and consistently characterize New Zealand at the 2008 Rugby League World Cup as a tour, what follows is the production of all these reliable sources.--Gibson Flying V (talk) 02:42, 28 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ "Kidwell names NZ Kiwis assistants". New Zealand Rugby League. 28 September 2016. Retrieved 28 September 2016.

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